Armstrong's Options

[Anonymous]

Given that Hincapie stated that he doesn't know where 60 Minutes got his supposed GJ testimony details, I would think this might be a point for the Armstrong team to attack the prosecution.

Hincapie has not denied what was reported. He denied talking to 60 minutes.

In the 60 minutes piece Pelley states "60 Minutes has learned...." or something to that effect.

I would agree with you had Hincapie denied the content of what was reported.

 

[Escarabajo]

lets not forget they couldn't even prove Bary bonds lied

Because he didn't when it mattered the most.

Somebody is in Jail for that.

 

[DirtyWorks]

You and French Fry haven't been paying attention but more than rumors surround financial transactions within Lance's "foundation" and "charity". Athlete's foundations are notorious for being expense playgrounds and this offers an opportunity to expose that for the IRS. It will be less exciting press than the image of Tyler and Lance having a syringe party but it's really more important. Like laundering and transfer of funds for purchasing PEDs is much more important than the aforementioned boys' booster parties and such. That's why the Feds, IRS, Interpol, Swiss bankers and associated Euro law agencies are cooperating: there are some big targets out there.

My long term speculation on public enemy #1: IOC. We've learned that both Heinz Verbruggen and Bill Stapleton (friends and fellow travelers of Lance, Weisel, etc) are honored counselors for the IOC.
#2: UCI.
#3: USACycling. Because Tailwind 'owns' it.

This is a ripe and ready media opportunity for the Feds to do their job in the face of budget cuts and a need for scapegoats.

I mostly agree. I changed it a little. As for the vague 'movers and shakers' my crackpot theory is it's mostly Tailwind associates. I'm open to the idea there are other actors in their fraudulent schemes. It's a hard story to build if you generalize too much.

We know Stapletons, Weisel, Armstrong, etc. essentially use the federation's IOC and member funding as a profit incubator. I have my suspicions that a good deal of doping facilitating happens there too. Consequences of the cesspool at USAC likely infect the USOC in damaging ways. This aspect of the fraud is still untouched by mainstream media.

The membership at USAC doesn't care though. Weisel and Armstrong will run their monopoly from jail. If Johnson has participated in the scams, he'll too will keep his job while in prison and none of the membership will think twice.

 

[Oldman]

I mostly agree. I changed it a little. As for the vague 'movers and shakers' my crackpot theory is it's mostly Tailwind associates. I'm open to the idea there are other actors in their fraudulent schemes. It's a hard story to build if you generalize too much.

We know Stapletons, Weisel, Armstrong, etc. essentially use the federation's IOC and member funding as a profit incubator. I have my suspicions that a good deal of doping facilitating happens there too. Consequences of the cesspool at USAC likely infect the USOC in damaging ways. This aspect of the fraud is still untouched by mainstream media.

The membership at USAC doesn't care though. Weisel and Armstrong will run their monopoly from jail. If Johnson has participated in the scams, he'll too will keep his job while in prison and none of the membership will think twice.

Your change clarified what should be obvious to most. The stream of pollution does seem headed toward the IOC. While they mostly escaped the last US based fraud in Utah with the big members intact I seemed to recall the US citizens that tried to profit from those games did not. Jump forward to any anticipation that Heinz and Bill S might have had about future venue, media and management dollars they could have reaped in exchange for PED test suppression and it makes a conspiracy to defraud a tantalizing target for Novitsky. If he truly dislikes entitled fraudulent athletes he must really have a turgid woody for the likes of the IOC royalty.

 

[masking_agent]

hire more lawyers, skate fee like OJ..

 

[movingtarget]

Hang on re: Madoff. He's actually not that bad. The scale of the loses were massive. But he was a speculator. A lot of people tried to get rich quick from Madoff. He was high risk. Almost all of the major banks pushed their clients money through Madoff's firm. The banks never bothered to check if the profit was real. Also the Mums & Dads who were getting rich kept re-investing their profits back. Their was a lot of culpability in the Madoff affair but it didn't solely reside with him. We all wanted to get rich and get rich quick.*

Armstrong is a little different. People don't get rich - he does. Well his firm does. But ingeniously he uses a very well organised "charity" to build his own personal brand. He looks cancer patients in the eye, he looks their families in the eye and says "donate" - your money is safe with me.

Now you tell me which is worse? A man who speculated with peoples money - willing people.

or a man who preys on the sick and the vunenble and says "donate - it's for cancer awareness".

Sure, Armstrong plays the fame game and is the public face of the charity but the bulk of money is still supposedly being used for cancer research and health campaigns. You don't go to prison for being manipulative or persuasive unless he has been doing dodgy financial things with the donations but makes out he is doing something different. You do make a valid point about Madoff but I still think he is a despicable person. An out of control speculator is like a guy that spends his entire pay every week on gambling and has no regard for his family. Madoff was obviously totally off the rails, with no one around to reign him in and consequences were tragic. Even though it was everyone's intention to make a quick buck and at that stage his credentials were peerless. As usual what was happening behind the scenes was totally different to the public's perception of where they stood financially. It's obviously the possibility of a cure that hooks the donations for cancer as it's such a prevalent disease even in children and it affects many families. It's interesting that donations for heart disease are much harder to come by even though in many countries, heart disease is the bigger killer in men and women. The word "cancer" has a certain amount of fear attached to it compared to other health issues.

 

[sashimono]

This may happen...

Lance admits doping, but blames it on cycling.
His legal team comes up with a very convincing "its all about the bike" defense.
Livestrong shifts its message from "cancer awareness" to "cycling awareness" and flourishes.
Cycling is outlawed in the US.
Obama declares war... against France.

 

[happychappy]

This may happen...

Lance admits doping, but blames it on cycling.
His legal team comes up with a very convincing "its all about the bike" defense.
Livestrong shifts its message from "cancer awareness" to "cycling awareness" and flourishes.
Cycling is outlawed in the US.
Obama declares war... against France.

Then G.W Bush moves to u-rop, loses lots of weight and becomes Radioshack team leader for TDF 2012.

 

[movingtarget]

Would not surprise me. According to Lance, George does well on the mountain bike for an oldie. That would mean Horner is a domestique again

 

[movingtarget]

This may happen...

Lance admits doping, but blames it on cycling.
His legal team comes up with a very convincing "its all about the bike" defense.
Livestrong shifts its message from "cancer awareness" to "cycling awareness" and flourishes.
Cycling is outlawed in the US.
Obama declares war... against France.

I think the French and the US have learnt to live with each other.........sort of.

 

[sars1981]

This may happen...

Lance admits doping, but blames it on cycling.
His legal team comes up with a very convincing "its all about the bike" defense.
Livestrong shifts its message from "cancer awareness" to "cycling awareness" and flourishes.
Cycling is outlawed in the US.
Obama declares war... against France.

This is basically what I would do if I were Lance. Seems the best card to play. I can certainly imagine Livestrong adopting the anti-doping message. I wonder if big Lance has considered this.

 

[thehog]

This is basically what I would do if I were Lance. Seems the best card to play. I can certainly imagine Livestrong adopting the anti-doping message. I wonder if big Lance has considered this.

Problem being that an admission is not just an admission. He can't do a Kohl and walk away from the sport. Being clean is intrinsically linked to Armstrong and his finances. If Armstrong opens up the floodgates on admitting the PED use then all of the people, companies and legal judiciaries that he has defrauded over the years will come knocking. He simply can't admit. It will cost him way too much. He's only option is to try to duck and weave on technicalities.

SCA only need to file a suit and he’ll have to settle. Armstrong can’t afford to go to trial as witnesses will be called etc and this time we have the truth. Thus I think he'll settle most of the civil cases out but there’s no way he’ll can afford to admit in full.

Now in saying all this I know Nov will want a public admission like with Jones. So I don’t think he’ll let Armstrong off the hook with a private settlement.

Interesting times ahead...

 

[Cloxxki]

I wonder whether Lance has enough assets to deal with all the settlements he's facing. He'll have to have invetsed really well in a short time, to make more money from his gains made of other people's and companies' backs.
Sell the Trek stock, a lot of Madone's (with federal permission this time) the houses, the plane, yellow jerseys for $10 each, book rights, be fired from honorary functions, and still end up broke.
Those are a LOT of EXPENSIVE lies and frauds he collected in just 12 years.

It might well be that Lance will have no other option than to go to Floyd to beg to feed and house himself and his children.

 

[Andynonomous]

Hello Cayman islands.

I wonder whether Lance has enough assets to deal with all the settlements he's facing. He'll have to have invetsed really well in a short time, to make more money from his gains made of other people's and companies' backs.
Sell the Trek stock, a lot of Madone's (with federal permission this time) the houses, the plane, yellow jerseys for $10 each, book rights, be fired from honorary functions, and still end up broke.
Those are a LOT of EXPENSIVE lies and frauds he collected in just 12 years.

It might well be that Lance will have no other option than to go to Floyd to beg to feed and house himself and his children.

I am absolutely CERTAIN that Lance has already started to move some money out of the reach of American authorities.

If OJ Simpson would have the gall to hide his wealth after slaughtering 2 innocent people, you can bet Lance will rationalize in his own mind that he earned the money fair and square, and therefore should keep it. Thats what narcisists do.

 

[Oldman]

I am absolutely CERTAIN that Lance has already started to move some money out of the reach of American authorities.If OJ Simpson would have the gall to hide his wealth after slaughtering 2 innocent people, you can bet Lance will rationalize in his own mind that he earned the money fair and square, and therefore should keep it. Thats what narcisists do.

I'm glad you're certain. I was waiting for someone to disclose a certainty. What has rumored to have happened is that the IRS started checking into Livestrong foundation and related expenditure items some time ago as some Foundation accounting employees felt uncomfortable about auditable entries.
That means no one moves money without the IRS knowing about it. Either way it is doubtful Lance has any money in Switzerland that the Feds can't pin down.

 

[Oldman]

...and Lance has the option of asking for an apology from the IRS for checking into his accounting practices. 60 minutes will be there to air it for all to see.

 

[D-Queued]

...and Lance has the option of asking for an apology from the IRS for checking into his accounting practices. 60 minutes will be there to air it for all to see.

He should probably demand an apology for the 'leak' from the City of Austin on his water usage.

Looks like the new lawyers are just the guys for the job to apply a few more worn-out phrases before the dam bursts on this thing.

Dave.

 

[Juicy McDrip]

Ok Mark, who is your favorite ??? And I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the only was Ullrich finished 2nd was because he was doped to the gills also. He was a self admitted doper but a doper never the less. GL the greatest American cyclist !!!! Are you on dope ???

Of course it's Lemond. Who else?

Let's analyze American TdF winners:

Floyd: Admitted doper and not officially a tdf winner. Was for about 24 hours.

Lance: Champion in the EPO era. Under federal investigation for doping, misuse of funds and other potential charges. Eyewitness accounts of his doping. Suspicious payoff donations to UCI. Tested positive once for Cortisone.

Lemond: None of the above. A heralded champion without the asterisk.

So...yes, Lemond is the greatest American cyclist. Andy Hampsten following closely behind.

 

[ricara]

So...yes, Lemond is the greatest American cyclist. Andy Hampsten following closely behind.

+100

I hate to say it because I love Andy, but he was following closely behind only because there wasn't any Americans in between. But the reality is that Greg could have won five or six Tours de France if not for Hinault screwing him out of one win and that stupid gunshot wound. Andy was awesome but I'm not sure that he could have ever beaten Greg head-to-head in the TdF.

 

[webvan]

But the reality is that Greg could have won five or six Tours de France if not for Hinault screwing him out of one win

1985 - Lemond was told he could attack as long as he didn't drag Delgado and Roche up with him, common sense.
1986 - If Hinault hadn't gone on a suicide attack when he had a 5+ minute lead after the first Pyrenean stage he would certainly have won that year.
1989 - No aerobars -> no TDF

1987/1988 - let's give him these.

So 3-2+2=3

Back on topic.

 

[VeloCity]

Of course it's Lemond. Who else?

Let's analyze American TdF winners:

Floyd: Admitted doper and not officially a tdf winner. Was for about 24 hours.

Lance: Champion in the EPO era. Under federal investigation for doping, misuse of funds and other potential charges. Eyewitness accounts of his doping. Suspicious payoff donations to UCI. Tested positive once for Cortisone.

Lemond: None of the above. A heralded champion without the asterisk.

So...yes, Lemond is the greatest American cyclist. Andy Hampsten following closely behind.

To be totally nitpicky, Lemond was the greatest American road cyclist perhaps, but maybe not the greatest American cyclist ever.

 

[Zweistein]

1985 - Lemond was told he could attack as long as he didn't drag Delgado and Roche up with him, common sense.
1986 - If Hinault hadn't gone on a suicide attack when he had a 5+ minute lead after the first Pyrenean stage he would certainly have won that year.
1989 - No aerobars -> no TDF

1987/1988 - let's give him these.

So 3-2+2=3

Back on topic.

No, Lemond basically lost 85 when he was told to wait for Hinault. They basically lied to him what the time gaps were to get him to wait over a minute.

In 1986, Lemond had no team behind him and he wasn't allowed to chase Hinault down. The way that Hinault was riding though there was no way he would hold up over 3 weeks. He only quit riding against Lemond when he was wasted. Hinault was trying to build up a time gap to justify forcing the team to ride for him. Armstrong tried to do with Contador as well but it he lost it all on the first mountain stage.

1989 - Fignon tried the areo bars before the time trail and didn't like them and didn't think they would make any difference. He also went out without disc wheel/s. With just one disc wheel, he probably would have held 8 seconds. If you want to say anything about this tour, Fignon lost it due to not adopting modern equipment.

 

[R.0.t.O]

1989 - Fignon tried the areo bars before the time trail and didn't like them and didn't think they would make any difference. He also went out without disc wheel/s. With just one disc wheel, he probably would have held 8 seconds. If you want to say anything about this tour, Fignon lost it due to not adopting modern equipment.

Fignon had front and rear discs for that final timetrial fyi.

 

[Grand Tourist]

No, Lemond basically lost 85 when he was told to wait for Hinault. They basically lied to him what the time gaps were to get him to wait over a minute.

In 1986, Lemond had no team behind him and he wasn't allowed to chase Hinault down. The way that Hinault was riding though there was no way he would hold up over 3 weeks. He only quit riding against Lemond when he was wasted. Hinault was trying to build up a time gap to justify forcing the team to ride for him. Armstrong tried to do with Contador as well but it he lost it all on the first mountain stage.

1989 - Fignon tried the areo bars before the time trail and didn't like them and didn't think they would make any difference. He also went out without disc wheel/s. With just one disc wheel, he probably would have held 8 seconds. If you want to say anything about this tour, Fignon lost it due to not adopting modern equipment.

It was a little more complicated than that. It had a lot to do with the idiosyncratic manner in which Koechli ran the team. There was no designated leader & the plan was to support the 'strongest' rider. Hinault reckoned he was the strongest because he won the 1st TT. Lemond certainly has some help from the likes of Steve Bauer & Andy Hampsten so it's wrong to say he was by himself. That being said it's fair to say Hinault would have love to have won it despite his protestations that he was trying to destroy the opposition for Lemond. To be fair to him the biggest prize was up for grabs, he was a wee bit demob happy as '86 was his last year & he was under huge pressure to stop an American winning the tour.

Read 'Slaying the Badger' by Richard Moore which is a great book & has a shocking preface involving an ill Lemond & a box of Hinault postcards . Both Hinault & Lemond come across as sympathetic characters. For example Hinault was a very decent team mate who looked after the younger guys (unless they were called Greg) & was obsessed with popular science magazines!!!

 

[TubularBills]

Fignon had front and rear discs for that final timetrial fyi.

+1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWyfb3H7LEg&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_610553