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Armstrong's Options

Page 5 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
D-Queued said:
At the end of 2009, there were 2.3 million people in state or federal prisons in the US. Bernie is only one of those.

They probably have a room somewhere with Lance's name on it.

Dave.

And 99.99% of those people have nothing in common with Armstrong nor have a corporate empire standing behind them. Madoff and co had an effect on average people and families. Comparing Armstrong to him is nonsense. Madoff makes Armstrong look insignificant as far as damaging people's lives etc....... Don't arrange the nameplate just yet.
 
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Cimacoppi49 said:
The following rich people have done Federal prison time, just off the top of my head,
Martha Stewart
Bernie Madoff
Leona Helmsley
Whats his name--the securities trader.

IMO, the bigger problem is that the wealthy can afford better representation to keep them from getting guilty verdicts. That often has little to do with fame. Armstrong's hubris will do him in just as it did to Leona and Martha. There was a really funny radio skit by Don Imus about Leona arriving at prison to be greeted by the female guard Juanita-a former, fired employee of Leona's hotel. Juanita greets her like an old friend and tells her to bend over, "I got to check your **** for diamonds."

Let me help you jar your memory, Cimacoppi49:

1. Skilling & Fastow (Enron); 24 years/$45M in fines & 10 years/$24M in fines. Ken Lay was headed to lock-up as well, but managed to have a HA, so is expiration date arrived.

2. "Sir" Allen Stanford (The Stanford Financial Group); currently in jail awaiting trial.

3. Bernie" Ebbers (World Com); 25 years/$6B in restitution.

4. Dennis Kozlowski (Tyco), 8-25 years.

5. John J. Rigas (Adelphia Communications); 15 years/filed for BKO

6. Richard M. Scrushy (Health South Corp.); 7 years/$1M in fines

7. Samuel D. Waksal (Imclone Systems; see Martha S.); 7 years/$4M in fines.

8. Sanjay Kumar (Computer Associates); 12 years/$780M in restitution.

9. And the recently convicted, Raj Rajaratnam; sentencing pending.

4 shy of a baker's dozen . . . Perhaps someone else can barf out 4 more names for the lucky 13 drawing . . . I need a shot of whiskey now.
 

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fatandfast said:
Armstrong has lots of options but the best is probably to stay on course and make them prove their case. 10 year old data and evidence is the only thing Lance has going for him.


I agree. I would like to see retests of his old TdF samples. If they prove to be clean then the prosecution case will be dealt a pretty big blow, not only evidentially but also in terms of public opinion. If they come back as positive for PED's then Lance can kiss his *** goodbye.

At the end of the day, right now he should say nothing and let them prove a case as should anyone in his position. Personally I don't think Tylers testimony will swing things as he has already showed in the past that he would struggle to lie straight in bed and he would lose any he said she said battle. Of course I am sure there will be more credible witnesses but I am sure the defence will have those too.
 
for the Feds - doping during a sports event is not really an issue.

Things that ARE an issue are

- bribing foreign officials/corruption (UCI)

- fraud (accepting govt funds from USPS fraudulently or at least under false pretenses)

- tax evasion (how did he pay Dr Ferrari and where did the money come from)

- supply and distribution of drugs (even though EPO is not illegal - supply without a script is) Think of the black market for painkillers etc .... And think about where they might have got these drugs from?

- importing drugs (as above)

- perjury (depositions in SCA case even if he is truthful to the grand jury/at trial)

Effectively they are going to claim that he is a drug pusher. That and the corruption, tax evasion will see him do time. Marion Jones is doing time just for perjury ...

And all of this is before investigating anything to do with the charity.
 
I'm no Armstrong fan, but I would much rather see him leveled with huge fines - down to having to get a job and living in a single wide trailer, and have to give a public confession and apology than sending him to jail. Incarceration would accomplish very little in my opinion.

Armstrong is nothing close to the likes of Madoff. Investor Rene Villehuchet who lost everything because of Madoff, including side investments from many people who believed in him, committed suicide. Madoff's own son Mark, having lived two years in shame, hanged himself, committing suicide as well. In the eyes of many this was not suicide, but murder.

Stanford is no longer a "sir", that title has been removed in a unanimous vote, and considered in Antigua to have been done with extreme prejudice. He's arguably worse than Madoff, and an equally despicable human being who took billions from tens of thousands of people. A great many of them in investment groups whose life savings and nest eggs were drained to nothing. Stanford belongs in the ADX Supermax prison the rest of his life.
 
Hang on re: Madoff. He's actually not that bad. The scale of the loses were massive. But he was a speculator. A lot of people tried to get rich quick from Madoff. He was high risk. Almost all of the major banks pushed their clients money through Madoff's firm. The banks never bothered to check if the profit was real. Also the Mums & Dads who were getting rich kept re-investing their profits back. Their was a lot of culpability in the Madoff affair but it didn't solely reside with him. We all wanted to get rich and get rich quick.*

Armstrong is a little different. People don't get rich - he does. Well his firm does. But ingeniously he uses a very well organised "charity" to build his own personal brand. He looks cancer patients in the eye, he looks their families in the eye and says "donate" - your money is safe with me.

Now you tell me which is worse? A man who speculated with peoples money - willing people.

or a man who preys on the sick and the vunenble and says "donate - it's for cancer awareness".



Alpe d'Huez said:
I'm no Armstrong fan, but I would much rather see him leveled with huge fines - down to having to get a job and living in a single wide trailer, and have to give a public confession and apology than sending him to jail. Incarceration would accomplish very little in my opinion.

Armstrong is nothing close to the likes of Madoff. Investor Rene Villehuchet who lost everything because of Madoff, including side investments from many people who believed in him, committed suicide. Madoff's own son Mark, having lived two years in shame, hanged himself, committing suicide as well. In the eyes of many this was not suicide, but murder.

Stanford is no longer a "sir", that title has been removed in a unanimous vote, and considered in Antigua to have been done with extreme prejudice. He's arguably worse than Madoff, and an equally despicable human being who took billions from tens of thousands of people. A great many of them in investment groups whose life savings and nest eggs were drained to nothing. Stanford belongs in the ADX Supermax prison the rest of his life.
 
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If Armstrong does time, does that restrict him from holding certain positions in society, ie political and powerful government offices?? Or maybe more importantly involvement in charities!

That for me is why it would be important that he does time, to hamstring the guy because he seems like someone who will not learn from this and will still feel he has done the right thing and his LAF is doing 'great' work.

A fine would also not have any sway on public opinion to the true level of the cheating he has done in sport and used that cheating to create a huge lie that is what the LAF perpetuates.
 
Benotti69 said:
If Armstrong does time, does that restrict him from holding certain positions in society, ie political and powerful government offices?? Or maybe more importantly involvement in charities!

.

I think now thats the last thing on his mind. He's trying dodge this bullet as best he can.

With DMD down 50% from IPO he will need the cash reserves. This thing has got 5 years to run. A lot of poeple want their money back.

For the life of me I have no idea why he didn't give Tyler and Floyd a job in his bike shop. Give them a high salary and that would have kept them close with an income. Letting them sit out there all alone to fester only made them mad.
 
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Markyboyzx6r said:
Hi folks. I've been a long-time lurker in The Clinic (probably 3-4 years) but I've never felt compelled to post before - always been happy to just sit and read the exchanges. However, I feel now is as good a time as any to give my opinion.

I've loved professional cycling since I watched Greg Lemond in the final ITT in 1989. I've watched every TdF since (first on Channel 4 then on ITV), followed the eras of Big Mig, Marco, Jan, Lance et al. I've climbed the big TdF climbs, stood by the roadside with my Union Jack, spent many a happy (drunken) day in Paris, on Col de la Columbiere, in Hyde Park in London - seen arrivees and departs. It's been a big part of my life, and although I like the Giro and Vuelta - July in France is summer to me, just as it is for my French wife.

When Armstrong came back on the scene in 1999 I was his biggest fan. I stood on the climbs and screamed my lungs out for him. My journey was typical for many of his fans - I went from not even thinking about doping (post-Festina), to being sure he was clean, to wondering IF he was clean to finally, in 2004, knowing he was doped. However, there's a side of me that's glad that I didn't know the full extent of the deception, as described in The Clinic (using cited examples and published research) up until now. For many, this day has been too long in coming. I'd like to say thank you to people like Lemond, Betsy, Race Radio and all the others on the forum who have helped to expose Armstrong for what he is. And helped to educate the curious - like me.

I find myself becoming increasingly frustrated with the coverage of this, how people cite the "500 tests" ******** like unthinking minions. I keep checking for new news articles about it, it's been dominating my life for the past 5 days, I seem to be fascinated by it.

Maybe it's because I reference so many good times in my life to Le Tour, and to Lance, and to all those summers from '99 to '05. Six years of my life, that are no longer the same because I cannot look back on those memories with anything like the fondness that I should. My favorite rider was Jan Ullrich - he sat and ground the big gears up the mountains just like I do (all be it much faster than I ever did). Jan had no chance against the Armstrong machine - no wonder he he hit the beers in the winter, he knew he was racing for second 'cause there was no way Lance was ever going to be exposed for what he was.

If we knew in '99 what we know now... there'd be no Livestrong, no cameos in movies, no Twittering, no talk of 'all the good I've done for all those people'. It's absolute pish to talk about how much money he's raised for cancer - if we'd known he was on the gear in '99 no one would have given him a dime.

Greg Lemond re-takes his rightful place as the greatest American cyclist, Jan Ullrich gains the respect of the cycling world for his troubles in reconciling what happened back then and Armstrong does 10 years in jail, his ill-gotten assets seized. That's a result, as I see it.

Livestrong.com - Livestrong.org = Gone. Plenty of other cancer charities will pick up the fight - and put the money into research, rather than "awareness" - whatever the hell that actually is. Life will seem just a little bit more just and fair.

Mark

Thanks, Mark, for an honest first post.

This is the best evidence I've seen so far on how Lance has cheated regular cycling fans - the lifeblood of the sport itself. Defrauding the rank and file is no small thing.
 
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Markyboyzx6r said:
Hi folks. I
<snip>

Livestrong.com - Livestrong.org = Gone. Plenty of other cancer charities will pick up the fight - and put the money into research, rather than "awareness" - whatever the hell that actually is. Life will seem just a little bit more just and fair.

Mark

Great first post.

Stick around and join in.:)
 
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So far, every journalist has mitigated Lance for 'all the good' he's done.

How long before the gaping maw that is Livestrong.com/.org comes into focus?

I wonder if the Feds are looking at this?
 
Markyboyzx6r said:
Hi folks. I've been a long-time lurker in The Clinic (probably 3-4 years) but I've never felt compelled to post before - always been happy to just sit and read the exchanges. However, I feel now is as good a time as any to give my opinion.

I've loved professional cycling since I watched Greg Lemond in the final ITT in 1989. I've watched every TdF since (first on Channel 4 then on ITV), followed the eras of Big Mig, Marco, Jan, Lance et al. I've climbed the big TdF climbs, stood by the roadside with my Union Jack, spent many a happy (drunken) day in Paris, on Col de la Columbiere, in Hyde Park in London - seen arrivees and departs. It's been a big part of my life, and although I like the Giro and Vuelta - July in France is summer to me, just as it is for my French wife.

When Armstrong came back on the scene in 1999 I was his biggest fan. I stood on the climbs and screamed my lungs out for him. My journey was typical for many of his fans - I went from not even thinking about doping (post-Festina), to being sure he was clean, to wondering IF he was clean to finally, in 2004, knowing he was doped. However, there's a side of me that's glad that I didn't know the full extent of the deception, as described in The Clinic (using cited examples and published research) up until now. For many, this day has been too long in coming. I'd like to say thank you to people like Lemond, Betsy, Race Radio and all the others on the forum who have helped to expose Armstrong for what he is. And helped to educate the curious - like me.

I find myself becoming increasingly frustrated with the coverage of this, how people cite the "500 tests" ******** like unthinking minions. I keep checking for new news articles about it, it's been dominating my life for the past 5 days, I seem to be fascinated by it.

Maybe it's because I reference so many good times in my life to Le Tour, and to Lance, and to all those summers from '99 to '05. Six years of my life, that are no longer the same because I cannot look back on those memories with anything like the fondness that I should. My favorite rider was Jan Ullrich - he sat and ground the big gears up the mountains just like I do (all be it much faster than I ever did). Jan had no chance against the Armstrong machine - no wonder he he hit the beers in the winter, he knew he was racing for second 'cause there was no way Lance was ever going to be exposed for what he was.

If we knew in '99 what we know now... there'd be no Livestrong, no cameos in movies, no Twittering, no talk of 'all the good I've done for all those people'. It's absolute pish to talk about how much money he's raised for cancer - if we'd known he was on the gear in '99 no one would have given him a dime.

Greg Lemond re-takes his rightful place as the greatest American cyclist, Jan Ullrich gains the respect of the cycling world for his troubles in reconciling what happened back then and Armstrong does 10 years in jail, his ill-gotten assets seized. That's a result, as I see it.

Livestrong.com - Livestrong.org = Gone. Plenty of other cancer charities will pick up the fight - and put the money into research, rather than "awareness" - whatever the hell that actually is. Life will seem just a little bit more just and fair.

Mark

wow Marykyboy****! This is such a great distillation of feelings for , I suspect, many people like me that are now up in arms about the whole Lance affair.
The frustration of watching the outcomes over the past few years are finally culminating with hope....
Hopefully, Mr Armstrong will actually have to stand and face his accusers in a court of law, and soon.

thanks
 
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markeyzx6r: green or black?
535585_f520.jpg


nice post.
 

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Markyboyzx6r said:
Hi folks. I've been a long-time lurker in The Clinic (probably 3-4 years) but I've never felt compelled to post before - always been happy to just sit and read the exchanges. However, I feel now is as good a time as any to give my opinion.

I've loved professional cycling since I watched Greg Lemond in the final ITT in 1989. I've watched every TdF since (first on Channel 4 then on ITV), followed the eras of Big Mig, Marco, Jan, Lance et al. I've climbed the big TdF climbs, stood by the roadside with my Union Jack, spent many a happy (drunken) day in Paris, on Col de la Columbiere, in Hyde Park in London - seen arrivees and departs. It's been a big part of my life, and although I like the Giro and Vuelta - July in France is summer to me, just as it is for my French wife.

When Armstrong came back on the scene in 1999 I was his biggest fan. I stood on the climbs and screamed my lungs out for him. My journey was typical for many of his fans - I went from not even thinking about doping (post-Festina), to being sure he was clean, to wondering IF he was clean to finally, in 2004, knowing he was doped. However, there's a side of me that's glad that I didn't know the full extent of the deception, as described in The Clinic (using cited examples and published research) up until now. For many, this day has been too long in coming. I'd like to say thank you to people like Lemond, Betsy, Race Radio and all the others on the forum who have helped to expose Armstrong for what he is. And helped to educate the curious - like me.

I find myself becoming increasingly frustrated with the coverage of this, how people cite the "500 tests" ******** like unthinking minions. I keep checking for new news articles about it, it's been dominating my life for the past 5 days, I seem to be fascinated by it.

Maybe it's because I reference so many good times in my life to Le Tour, and to Lance, and to all those summers from '99 to '05. Six years of my life, that are no longer the same because I cannot look back on those memories with anything like the fondness that I should. My favorite rider was Jan Ullrich - he sat and ground the big gears up the mountains just like I do (all be it much faster than I ever did). Jan had no chance against the Armstrong machine - no wonder he he hit the beers in the winter, he knew he was racing for second 'cause there was no way Lance was ever going to be exposed for what he was.

If we knew in '99 what we know now... there'd be no Livestrong, no cameos in movies, no Twittering, no talk of 'all the good I've done for all those people'. It's absolute pish to talk about how much money he's raised for cancer - if we'd known he was on the gear in '99 no one would have given him a dime.

Greg Lemond re-takes his rightful place as the greatest American cyclist, Jan Ullrich gains the respect of the cycling world for his troubles in reconciling what happened back then and Armstrong does 10 years in jail, his ill-gotten assets seized. That's a result, as I see it.

Livestrong.com - Livestrong.org = Gone. Plenty of other cancer charities will pick up the fight - and put the money into research, rather than "awareness" - whatever the hell that actually is. Life will seem just a little bit more just and fair.

Mark

Oh great.
Another fanboy jumping ship.
Pathetic.
Pathetic like the haterz cheering from the shore.

Go ahead, Mark, jump.
Go and take Conner's space in the lifeboat.
Conner does not need the spot anyway.
 
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Markyboyzx6r said:
Hi folks. I've been a long-time lurker in The Clinic (probably 3-4 years) but I've never felt compelled to post before - always been happy to just sit and read the exchanges. However, I feel now is as good a time as any to give my opinion.

I've loved professional cycling since I watched Greg Lemond in the final ITT in 1989. I've watched every TdF since (first on Channel 4 then on ITV), followed the eras of Big Mig, Marco, Jan, Lance et al. I've climbed the big TdF climbs, stood by the roadside with my Union Jack, spent many a happy (drunken) day in Paris, on Col de la Columbiere, in Hyde Park in London - seen arrivees and departs. It's been a big part of my life, and although I like the Giro and Vuelta - July in France is summer to me, just as it is for my French wife.

When Armstrong came back on the scene in 1999 I was his biggest fan. I stood on the climbs and screamed my lungs out for him. My journey was typical for many of his fans - I went from not even thinking about doping (post-Festina), to being sure he was clean, to wondering IF he was clean to finally, in 2004, knowing he was doped. However, there's a side of me that's glad that I didn't know the full extent of the deception, as described in The Clinic (using cited examples and published research) up until now. For many, this day has been too long in coming. I'd like to say thank you to people like Lemond, Betsy, Race Radio and all the others on the forum who have helped to expose Armstrong for what he is. And helped to educate the curious - like me.

I find myself becoming increasingly frustrated with the coverage of this, how people cite the "500 tests" ******** like unthinking minions. I keep checking for new news articles about it, it's been dominating my life for the past 5 days, I seem to be fascinated by it.

Maybe it's because I reference so many good times in my life to Le Tour, and to Lance, and to all those summers from '99 to '05. Six years of my life, that are no longer the same because I cannot look back on those memories with anything like the fondness that I should. My favorite rider was Jan Ullrich - he sat and ground the big gears up the mountains just like I do (all be it much faster than I ever did). Jan had no chance against the Armstrong machine - no wonder he he hit the beers in the winter, he knew he was racing for second 'cause there was no way Lance was ever going to be exposed for what he was.

If we knew in '99 what we know now... there'd be no Livestrong, no cameos in movies, no Twittering, no talk of 'all the good I've done for all those people'. It's absolute pish to talk about how much money he's raised for cancer - if we'd known he was on the gear in '99 no one would have given him a dime.

Greg Lemond re-takes his rightful place as the greatest American cyclist, Jan Ullrich gains the respect of the cycling world for his troubles in reconciling what happened back then and Armstrong does 10 years in jail, his ill-gotten assets seized. That's a result, as I see it.

Livestrong.com - Livestrong.org = Gone. Plenty of other cancer charities will pick up the fight - and put the money into research, rather than "awareness" - whatever the hell that actually is. Life will seem just a little bit more just and fair.

Mark

Ok Mark, who is your favorite ??? And I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the only was Ullrich finished 2nd was because he was doped to the gills also. He was a self admitted doper but a doper never the less. GL the greatest American cyclist !!!! Are you on dope ???
 
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uspostal said:


Ok Mark, who is your favorite ??? And I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the only was Ullrich finished 2nd was because he was doped to the gills also. He was a self admitted doper but a doper never the less. GL the greatest American cyclist !!!! Are you on dope ???
um, Ullrich never admitted to anything.
 
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VeloCity said:
um, Ullrich never admitted to anything.

not directly, but he did say the famous "if you cannot add 1 +1 and get 2 then i cannot help you" while not saying he did EPO he is indirectly saying he did.
 
Stingray34 said:
So far, every journalist has mitigated Lance for 'all the good' he's done.

How long before the gaping maw that is Livestrong.com/.org comes into focus?

I wonder if the Feds are looking at this?

I am surprised there hasn't been more on this, perhaps it is because this is a grey area that is more difficult to prove and explain than the fact Lancey-poo was a major doper and dealer.

Maybe we will see more in the months to come. I think this will be a bigger story than the doping to most people (at least those who don't visit the clinic).
 
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Stingray34 said:
So far, every journalist has mitigated Lance for 'all the good' he's done.

How long before the gaping maw that is Livestrong.com/.org comes into focus?

I wonder if the Feds are looking at this?

You and French Fry haven't been paying attention but more than rumors surround financial transactions within Lance's "foundation" and "charity". Athlete's foundations are notorious for being expense playgrounds and this offers an opportunity to expose that for the IRS. It will be less exciting press than the image of Tyler and Lance having a syringe party but it's really more important. Like laundering and transfer of funds for purchasing PEDs is much more important than the aforementioned boys' booster parties and such. That's why the Feds, IRS, Interpol, Swiss bankers and associated Euro law agencies are cooperating: there are some big targets out there.

My long term speculation on public enemy #1: IOC. We've learned that both Heinz Verbruggen and Bill Stapleton (friends and fellow travelers of Lance, Weisel, etc) are honored counselors for the IOC.
#2: UCI. In Heinz statement regarding Lance the text was: "Lance never doped...during my Chairmanship". Subtext: "Pat, where did the money go?" as if the sound of McQuaid's body going under the bus would divert the investigation's attention away from Verbruggen's Swiss enclave.
#3: Financial movers and shakers. Profiteers that stepped on many and made few friends on their way to pirating Pro cycling. Think of all of the suspects that don't ride a bike because there are many; especially those that made their fortunes floating vacous IPOs of tech stocks to unsuspecting investors that may have axes ground and sharpened (think SEC, Treasury and, again; the IRS).
#4: USACycling. Because the red-headed stepchild of the USOC would do anything to maintain funding and add to the glory of guys in catagory #3 they may have gotten sloppy. Also, after Marion Jones and others it's possible Mr. Novitsky had unfinished business with the local chapter of IOC's bribery franchise network.

This is a ripe and ready media opportunity for the Feds to do their job in the face of budget cuts and a need for scapegoats.
 
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Oldman said:
You and French Fry haven't been paying attention but more than rumors surround financial transactions within Lance's "foundation" and "charity". Athlete's foundations are notorious for being expense playgrounds and this offers an opportunity to expose that for the IRS. It will be less exciting press than the image of Tyler and Lance having a syringe party but it's really more important. Like laundering and transfer of funds for purchasing PEDs is much more important than the aforementioned boys' booster parties and such. That's why the Feds, IRS, Interpol, Swiss bankers and associated Euro law agencies are cooperating: there are some big targets out there.

My long term speculation on public enemy #1: IOC. We've learned that both Heinz Verbruggen and Bill Stapleton (friends and fellow travelers of Lance, Weisel, etc) are honored counselors for the IOC.
#2: UCI. In Heinz statement regarding Lance the text was: "Lance never doped...during my Chairmanship". Subtext: "Pat, where did the money go?" as if the sound of McQuaid's body going under the bus would divert the investigation's attention away from Verbruggen's Swiss enclave.
#3: Financial movers and shakers. Profiteers that stepped on many and made few friends on their way to pirating Pro cycling. Think of all of the suspects that don't ride a bike because there are many; especially those that made their fortunes floating vacous IPOs of tech stocks to unsuspecting investors that may have axes ground and sharpened (think SEC, Treasury and, again; the IRS).
#4: USACycling. Because the red-headed stepchild of the USOC would do anything to maintain funding and add to the glory of guys in catagory #3 they may have gotten sloppy. Also, after Marion Jones and others it's possible Mr. Novitsky had unfinished business with the local chapter of IOC's bribery franchise network.

This is a ripe and ready media opportunity for the Feds to do their job in the face of budget cuts and a need for scapegoats.

I've known for some time all was not well with Livestrong, as have most who frequent these forums.

The sleeper issue for the media at the moment is that, behind his nasty doping habits, beats a heart of altruistic gold. All his backroom blood drips were in the service of a greater good: he only doped in order to help. Articles like this pretty much give him a free pass on this issue:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...ce-closes-in-on-armstrong-20110525-1f4b2.html


Given such outstanding public service, would it matter that Armstrong's personal story was built on a lie? We seem close to finding the answer.

So, it still taken as a given that Lance is 'an outstanding public servant.' This is like the misgiving that Dan Coyle relates: "The number one misconception about Lance? That he's a nice guy."

If and when the full story ever gets out there, the doping tales will pale by comparison. Will people still be listening then? Justice will only be served when the full scale of the corruption is exposed cuz the doping aint even the half of it.
 
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Benotti69 said:
not directly, but he did say the famous "if you cannot add 1 +1 and get 2 then i cannot help you" while not saying he did EPO he is indirectly saying he did.
Oh he's definitely dropped the hints but he's never actually admitted to anything. I wonder if Floyd and Tyler will change that? And not just for Ullrich, but others as well. In any case, I'd love to see Ullrich come out with a tell-all book. That would be interesting reading.
 
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Given that Hincapie stated that he doesn't know where 60 Minutes got his supposed GJ testimony details, I would think this might be a point for the Armstrong team to attack the prosecution.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I'm no Armstrong fan, but I would much rather see him leveled with huge fines - down to having to get a job and living in a single wide trailer, and have to give a public confession and apology than sending him to jail. Incarceration would accomplish very little in my opinion.

I agree. I really only want one thing, which is the same thing that has happened to Mark McGuire, Roger Clemons, and others--the general public believes that he doped to achieve his incredible success.
 

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