Armstrong's Options

[Cimacoppi49]

Do his lawyers get all the testimony including the people who don't support the charges? I don't know how that works.

In any case, I can't see him doing anything until he knows what the GJ says.

Once an indictment comes down, he will have access to all the transcripts. Then the fun begins. He may have them, but often times they are still sealed. Leak and you will do time.

 

[TERMINATOR]

...... and prove it they will.

Not understanding the legal system in the US, what is the likelyhood of him being incarcerated? Can he buy his way out of prison by admitting guilt?

If Lance is convicted or pleads guilty to any felony he will likely do jail time. This isn't Europe with its "suspended sentence" nonsense.

 

[riobonito92]

. . Then there was this new guy on the team. He kept pestering me - saying he wanted the hard stuff - so me and Johann made up a salt water solution and squirted it in his mouth - we all had a laugh over a few light beers about that.

 

[Anonymous]

. . Then there was this new guy on the team. He kept pestering me - saying he wanted the hard stuff - so me and Johann made up a salt water solution and squirted it in his mouth - we all had a laugh over a few light beers about that.

Mmmmm..... Except Tyler was a USPS rider before LA. Then there is the eye witness of EPO use and blood transfusion.

Go to the stand with the story above and LA will find the cross examination will be taxing.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

What? A signed letter from the former head of the Lausanne lab wasn't proof?

More than just a letter--an affidavit given to the FBI. I'll bet the FBI helped him draft it, too.

 

[riobonito92]

Oh the jokes we used to play.

One day this rider asked me what was in my white lunch box. You should have seen his eyes light up when I said Hot Greasy Hamburger.

 

[veganrob]

I thought Everybody was training too hard. I mean 6 hours on the bike, c'mon, nobody does that. I suggested we all join Book of the Month Club. We got a couple books by a gentlemen I had heard of before. Edgar Allen Poe. We loved it. We got more of them. And wouldn't you know it with the new relaxed attitude on the team our performance improved dramatically. Who would've believed?

 

[131313]

I said this as soon as the federal investigation and Flandis thing broke, but I'll say it again; he needs to come clean. Problem is, every day he doesn't is just one more day walking across that shattering pond...and the pond is getting bigger (and softer).

I know there are a lot of euros on this forum, so let me say that any American with a TV (or access to a TV) has images of Marion Jones burned into their heads. And most bike racers I know watch a lot of TV. Marion Jones is going to fare a lot better in prison than any skinny male bike racer. I think most skinny male bike racers know this. Plus, most of them have seen re-runs of "Oz" on HBO. Lots of host housing and hotels have premium channels after all... No one really wants to live that reality, or see if prison is really as bad as it seems on TV.

So when the feds came knocking, it was a forgone conclusion that pretty much everyone would fold. Sure, they all have skin in the game, but they're not going to risk their freedom and same-sex virginity in the process just for Lance. He HAD to realize this. So, the only logical thing to do was to get out ahead of it.

There's now no other positive end game for him. Even if he beats the rap in the court system, he'll still end up like a pre-prison OJ. He's basically viewed as a pariah by most, and the more that comes out, the more entrenched that view will become. The LA media machine is spending money hand-over-fist, but the "facts4lance" debacle makes it pretty clear that they're now just firing rubber bullets in the air. It's over Lance. It's time to re-frame the narrative into "why I doped", not "I didn't do it". Remember, the True Believers will still believe you were clean, and you're just confessing to save the tax payers from more wasteful spending...

 

[Magic Spanner]

I said this as soon as the federal investigation and Flandis thing broke, but I'll say it again; he needs to come clean. Problem is, every day he doesn't is just one more day walking across that shattering pond...and the pond is getting bigger (and softer).

There's now no other positive end game for him. Even if he beats the rap in the court system, he'll still end up like a pre-prison OJ. He's basically viewed as a pariah by most, and the more that comes out, the more entrenched that view will become. The LA media machine is spending money hand-over-fist, but the "facts4lance" debacle makes it pretty clear that they're now just firing rubber bullets in the air. It's over Lance. It's time to re-frame the narrative into "why I doped", not "I didn't do it". Remember, the True Believers will still believe you were clean, and you're just confessing to save the tax payers from more wasteful spending...

Agreed.

I have read posts on the clinic to the effect that he has to go on
lieing and that he has no choice. IMO that's becoming a less and less feasible strategy.

Full confession. Blame the sport and it's culture and the UCI. Disappear.

Then the real debate can start about truly radical steps for a sport with some integrity.

 

[RdBiker]

I know there are a lot of euros on this forum, so let me say that any American with a TV (or access to a TV) has images of Marion Jones burned into their heads. And most bike racers I know watch a lot of TV. Marion Jones is going to fare a lot better in prison than any skinny male bike racer. I think most skinny male bike racers know this. Plus, most of them have seen re-runs of "Oz" on HBO. Lots of host housing and hotels have premium channels after all... No one really wants to live that reality, or see if prison is really as bad as it seems on TV.

So when the feds came knocking, it was a forgone conclusion that pretty much everyone would fold. Sure, they all have skin in the game, but they're not going to risk their freedom and same-sex virginity in the process just for Lance. He HAD to realize this. So, the only logical thing to do was to get out ahead of it.

European or American, I wouldn't really trust everything you see on TV to be true...

 

[sars1981]

I think the best road for Pharmstrong now is to fess up and go on an anti-doping crusade. "clean sport" can become a new motif for livestrong and in a few years he will have been able to spin all this sh#t into gold.

 

[Berzin]

Knowing Lance, I think his only option would be to hire Snoop and Chris to get rid of anyone who could or would testify against him-

 

[Cimacoppi49]

I said this as soon as the federal investigation and Flandis thing broke, but I'll say it again; he needs to come clean. Problem is, every day he doesn't is just one more day walking across that shattering pond...and the pond is getting bigger (and softer).

I know there are a lot of euros on this forum, so let me say that any American with a TV (or access to a TV) has images of Marion Jones burned into their heads. And most bike racers I know watch a lot of TV. Marion Jones is going to fare a lot better in prison than any skinny male bike racer. I think most skinny male bike racers know this. Plus, most of them have seen re-runs of "Oz" on HBO. Lots of host housing and hotels have premium channels after all... No one really wants to live that reality, or see if prison is really as bad as it seems on TV.

So when the feds came knocking, it was a forgone conclusion that pretty much everyone would fold. Sure, they all have skin in the game, but they're not going to risk their freedom and same-sex virginity in the process just for Lance. He HAD to realize this. So, the only logical thing to do was to get out ahead of it.

There's now no other positive end game for him. Even if he beats the rap in the court system, he'll still end up like a pre-prison OJ. He's basically viewed as a pariah by most, and the more that comes out, the more entrenched that view will become. The LA media machine is spending money hand-over-fist, but the "facts4lance" debacle makes it pretty clear that they're now just firing rubber bullets in the air. It's over Lance. It's time to re-frame the narrative into "why I doped", not "I didn't do it". Remember, the True Believers will still believe you were clean, and you're just confessing to save the tax payers from more wasteful spending...

Good points. However, IMO, it's past the point of him getting a deal unless the Feds have a bigger fish to fry (Weisel, Och, Stapleton??) or he's will to plead to multiple felonies. They will let him plead to a couple of felonies (if he'll turn on others like Weisel) and do jail time with asset forfeitures and restitution. The forfeitures are what will make Armstrong go to trial. It's a big risk given the present climate for sentencing of white (yellow) collar criminals. He'll be out in ten years or thereabouts, but he will be virtually penniless.

 

[Stingray34]

Good points. However, IMO, it's past the point of him getting a deal unless the Feds have a bigger fish to fry (Weisel, Och, Stapleton??) or he's will to plead to multiple felonies. They will let him plead to a couple of felonies (if he'll turn on others like Weisel) and do jail time with asset forfeitures and restitution. The forfeitures are what will make Armstrong go to trial. It's a big risk given the present climate for sentencing of white (yellow) collar criminals. He'll be out in ten years or thereabouts, but he will be virtually penniless.

I understand you're a practicing lawyer/circuit judge(?) Is it your opinion he will actually do serious time? Was that always the case or has he made things worse for himself?

Do you think Armstrong would've considered a confession and plea deal but rejected it? What could be the reasoning behind his adamant claims of innocence? Do you think even he has countenanced the possibility this affair could bleed him dry?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

I understand you're a practicing lawyer/circuit judge(?) Is it your opinion he will actually do serious time? Was that always the case or has he made things worse for himself?

Do you think Armstrong would've considered a confession and plea deal but rejected it? What could be the reasoning behind his adamant claims of innocence? Do you think even he has countenanced the possibility this affair could bleed him dry?

I was a administrative law judge in NYC hearing workplace violations by city civil service workers. Drugs in the workplace, emergency environmental based property seizures, time and leave violations (the guy whose father in India died twice necessitating emergency leave). Stuff like that. I received commissions from Mayors Kotch, Dinkins and Guilani to hear cases. Before that I was a corporate trial attorney in NYC.

What follows is pure speculation. I don't see Armstrong taking any pleas. He is a man filled with hubris that prevents him from seeing and weighing accurately that which is presently threatening him. It's quite different from perceiving threats in a cycle race. As an attorney, he is the kind of client you love to hate--he has the money for large retainers up front, but you are in the position of always having to spin a fantasy with every revelation. At some point, some attorneys, if they have a conscience, will say enough and tell him to get another attorney. The US adversarial system is set up so that you don't really need a conscience to be a lawyer. There are two basic rules of legal ethics in the US--Don't co-mingle client funds and keep your mouth shut.

If convicted, I do think he will serve significant time. His hubris will be on full view for the sentencing judge in that phase of the trial. Victims will get to address the court. As to the financial risks to him, I am certain his criminal counsel have advised him well of the risks. Whether or not he "heard" them is another matter.

As I've been saying for a year now, sit back, pour a glass of good wine and get ready. The show is about to begin in earnest.

 

[Stingray34]

I was a administrative law judge in NYC hearing workplace violations by city civil service workers. Drugs in the workplace, emergency environmental based property seizures, time and leave violations (the guy whose father in India died twice necessitating emergency leave). Stuff like that. I received commissions from Mayors Kotch, Dinkins and Guilani to hear cases. Before that I was a corporate trial attorney in NYC.

What follows is pure speculation. I don't see Armstrong taking any pleas. He is a man filled with hubris that prevents him from seeing and weighing accurately that which is presently threatening him. It's quite different from perceiving threats in a cycle race. As an attorney, he is the kind of client you love to hate--he has the money for large retainers up front, but you are in the position of always having to spin a fantasy with every revelation. At some point, some attorneys, if they have a conscience, will say enough and tell him to get another attorney. The US adversarial system is set up so that you don't really need a conscience to be a lawyer. There are two basic rules of legal ethics in the US--Don't co-mingle client funds and keep your mouth shut.

If convicted, I do think he will serve significant time. His hubris will be on full view for the sentencing judge in that phase of the trial. Victims will get to address the court. As to the financial risks to him, I am certain his criminal counsel have advised him well of the risks. Whether or not he "heard" them is another matter.

As I've been saying for a year now, sit back, pour a glass of good wine and get ready. The show is about to begin in earnest.

Thanks for your expert comments.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Thanks for your expert comments.

You're very welcome. (God how different this place is compared to Usenet)

 

[VeloGirl]

Good points. However, IMO, it's past the point of him getting a deal unless the Feds have a bigger fish to fry (Weisel, Och, Stapleton??) or he's will to plead to multiple felonies. They will let him plead to a couple of felonies (if he'll turn on others like Weisel) and do jail time with asset forfeitures and restitution. The forfeitures are what will make Armstrong go to trial. It's a big risk given the present climate for sentencing of white (yellow) collar criminals. He'll be out in ten years or thereabouts, but he will be virtually penniless.

I just read an article last night that stated they were after Tailwind. It said, first you squeeze the riders and they give you the name above them, then you squeeze the name above them and they give you the name above them, then you squeeze the name above them and hope they give you Armstrong, then you squeeze Armstrong and hopefully you get Tailwind and Stapleton.

The author was trying to explain why the investigation was taking so long and why some riders are getting immunitiy or partial immunity. They are after Tailwind.

Link to article

 

[sartain]

I was a administrative law judge in NYC hearing workplace violations by city civil service workers. Drugs in the workplace, emergency environmental based property seizures, time and leave violations (the guy whose father in India died twice necessitating emergency leave). Stuff like that. I received commissions from Mayors Kotch, Dinkins and Guilani to hear cases. Before that I was a corporate trial attorney in NYC.

What follows is pure speculation. I don't see Armstrong taking any pleas. He is a man filled with hubris that prevents him from seeing and weighing accurately that which is presently threatening him. It's quite different from perceiving threats in a cycle race. As an attorney, he is the kind of client you love to hate--he has the money for large retainers up front, but you are in the position of always having to spin a fantasy with every revelation. At some point, some attorneys, if they have a conscience, will say enough and tell him to get another attorney. The US adversarial system is set up so that you don't really need a conscience to be a lawyer. There are two basic rules of legal ethics in the US--Don't co-mingle client funds and keep your mouth shut.

If convicted, I do think he will serve significant time. His hubris will be on full view for the sentencing judge in that phase of the trial. Victims will get to address the court. As to the financial risks to him, I am certain his criminal counsel have advised him well of the risks. Whether or not he "heard" them is another matter.

As I've been saying for a year now, sit back, pour a glass of good wine and get ready. The show is about to begin in earnest.

Exactly . . . a 1996 Bruno Giacosa Barolo (Falletto di Serralunga Riserva). I suppose that one could also select a fine French Bordeaux just to add insult to injury and this would probably work just as well?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

I just read an article last night that stated they were after Tailwind. It said, first you squeeze the riders and they give you the name above them, then you squeeze the name above them and they give you the name above them, then you squeeze the name above them and hope they give you Armstrong, then you squeeze Armstrong and hopefully you get Tailwind and Stapleton.

The author was trying to explain why the investigation was taking so long and why some riders are getting immunitiy or partial immunity. They are after Tailwind.

If I find that article link I will post it here.

I'd like to see the link. It is on the money. Look for a RICO indictment with Tailwind as the named criminal enterprise and its owners as the co-conspirators committing the underlying felonies via Tailwind. There may be another related entity that is named as a criminal enterprise along with Tailwind. Time will tell.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Exactly . . . a 1996 Bruno Giacosa Barolo (Falletto di Serralunga Riserva). I suppose that one could also select a fine French Bordeaux just to add insult to injury and this would probably work just as well?

A nice Gattinara or Amarone for warmth during a Winter trial, 2012. To bad Court TV went bust.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Exactly . . . a 1996 Bruno Giacosa Barolo (Falletto di Serralunga Riserva). I suppose that one could also select a fine French Bordeaux just to add insult to injury and this would probably work just as well?

Sounds fancy. Does that have a screw cap on it?

 

[VeloGirl]

I'd like to see the link. It is on the money. Look for a RICO indictment with Tailwind as the named criminal enterprise and its owners as the co-conspirators committing the underlying felonies via Tailwind. There may be another related entity that is named as a criminal enterprise along with Tailwind. Time will tell.

I found the article and added the link to my original post. Pretty good article.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Sounds fancy. Does that have a screw cap on it?

LOL!! Some of the best wine now comes with a screw top--cork shortage and for some wines it keeps better.
New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc (Babbich) for example.

 

[sartain]

How about

After I became ill and returned to the sport I was unaware of what had been happening in my absence. I was given some substances by my team management, although I didn't really know what they were for. After the Tour de Suisse I was informed there was a problem with one of the team's samples. I was invited to a meeting with someone from the lab and the UCI. As a rider, I didn't really understand what was being said. In fact, I didn't really listen at all. After that, I was careful not to take anything unless I knew exactly what it contained. I knew I must be clean because I never failed a dope test. In fact, I became so mad about doping that I gave some money to the UCI to buy a machine . . . I was aware that other members of my team were doping but, since I was determined to ride clean, I looked the other way. . .

This brings up a question I had after watching 60 M . . . and that is . . . who are these team doctors that we overseeing the doping program and shooting-up some of the riders . . . have any of these people not been questioned by JN? It seems to me these guys would sing pretty fast. Maybe they get a deal to keep their license if they sing? Although frankly for helping the cyclists, whether it was just giving advice, or shooting them up, they should have their license taken. Also, obviously this will only work if they are American doctors.