ASO demands apology from Bakelants after sexist remarks

[Echoes]

There are no "salacious quotes" in Les Tontons Flingueurs. None. The closest thing would be when Lino Ventura goes home to find that there's a party going on, and one young man talks to his friend wondering if Antoine is doing Patricia. Lino a.k.a Fernand doesn't appreciate the salacious comment and the next thing that you see is the young man unconscious on the hood of a car.

Sorry I had the "Finnish woman quote" in mind but it's from "Greed in the Sun" ("Cent mille dollars au soleil").

However isn't this quote quite "macho": "I once knew a Polish girl who took it at breakfast. You've got to acknowledge it's rather a man's drink".

I've always seen these films as a great depiction of social reality, the characters having flaws and qualities. The way people are and not how they should be. I've learnt to appreciate people that way, despite their flaws...

 

[Martin]

Dear ASO, bring some grandma's on the podium, prevent sexist comments. Let the town mayor give the winner a kiss!

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

Dear ASO, bring some grandma's on the podium, prevent sexist comments. Let the town mayor give the winner a kiss!

JB: "May I have your grand daughter's number?"

Why not just have past cyclists do the presentations? Particularly at the world's biggest race (TDF).

Or give junior cyclists the honour of getting to meet a hero or two. In Aussie Rules Football (AFL), a child presents each player of the winning grand final team with their medal. AFL is a very macho game, yet there has never been a need for podium girls.

 

[Pennino]

Re: Re:

If the joke is offensive, yeah. Just because other people do it doesn't mean everybody should. Bad, offensive jokes gotta stop somewhere.

It does not work that way. You either have freedom of speech, and then not matter how nasty, a joke is a joke and at most says something about the author.

You you have a totalitarian society where people are affraid to call out problems for the fear of being misunderstood and punished for doing so.

And last point. As any good joke teller will know, 90% of a good joke is the right audience. A university professor will interpret the exact same joke very differently than a lumberjack. This is where context comes in and todays all-present recording of videos creates so much misinterpretation. It is now often no good all people in the room caught the joke and the sarcasm in it when anotyher 100k people who do not come from the same social background will cry bloody murder because they (expectedly) do not get it.

Here should come a basic rule of online or in general non-interactive communication: NEVER assume malice by the other party if there is any way to interpret the messaage differently.
In almost all such cases what is seen as a bad intent is a simple misinterpretation due to an unfortunate choice of words, a lack of context, or simply a different cultural background.

Great post.

 

[Pippo_San]

I think podium girls should be a little bit more naked.
WTF you can see the penises of them cyclists, what about some titties here and there.
Let's milk the cow!

 

[Pennino]

Re:

I think podium girls should be a little bit more naked.
WTF you can see the penises of them cyclists, what about some titties here and there.
Let's milk the cow!

But the cyclists then have to attend the podium ceremonies in their leisure trousers.
Hmm not that much of a problem.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Re: Re:

If the joke is offensive, yeah. Just because other people do it doesn't mean everybody should. Bad, offensive jokes gotta stop somewhere.

It does not work that way. You either have freedom of speech, and then not matter how nasty, a joke is a joke and at most says something about the author.

You you have a totalitarian society where people are affraid to call out problems for the fear of being misunderstood and punished for doing so.

And last point. As any good joke teller will know, 90% of a good joke is the right audience. A university professor will interpret the exact same joke very differently than a lumberjack. This is where context comes in and todays all-present recording of videos creates so much misinterpretation. It is now often no good all people in the room caught the joke and the sarcasm in it when anotyher 100k people who do not come from the same social background will cry bloody murder because they (expectedly) do not get it.

Here should come a basic rule of online or in general non-interactive communication: NEVER assume malice by the other party if there is any way to interpret the messaage differently.
In almost all such cases what is seen as a bad intent is a simple misinterpretation due to an unfortunate choice of words, a lack of context, or simply a different cultural background.

Repeat after me: freedom of speech does not= freedom from criticism.
Also, totalitarianism doesn't mean what you think it means. If the absence of an absolute legal right to freedom of speech makes a society 'totalitarian', we all live in totalitarian societies.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

In general boys and girls in the 15-25 year old range are very sexual in their conversation. Much of what they talk about could be viewed negatively by those who forgot about being that age. Right or wrong its a fact or life. I've been coaching youth sports since 1990 and this aspect of their behavior is relatively static.

That being said, JB is 30 ish so he should be past this developmental stage. I get the feeling that the podium hostesses have turned JB down and he was getting back at them.

Surely that's communication within their peer-group though?

Which is just as bad. Something can either be said in an interview and around a group of friends or it can't. Either what he said was wrong or it wasn't.

I don't agree. I use profanity at home, riding with friends, etc., but I don't use profanity around the kids who I coach, in a meeting at work, or around people I don't know. I'm not alone in that. Also, what is acceptable to one group (age, race, gender, culture, religion...), might not be to another (and v-v), and you/we can't view others through our beliefs. Society has norms for public situations to show respect for each other not to control how we think.

 

[lenric]

When I see some podium girls:

 

[Tonton]

@ ihosama: There's a point to be made that podium girls or NFL cheerleaders are some form of exploitation of women. Not to mention boxing and MMA round sign girls, who all look like strippers (which they probably are).

Regardless, that's not why I watch cycling.

It's not totalitarian to sanction or condemn Bakelants: freedom of expression? Go tell your boss what you think of him/her, tell me how it worked out for you. The bottom line is: at work, remain professional. Race organizers, UCI, or teams expect riders to represent the race, the sport, or the team sponsor in a positive light. That was idiotic behavior. There's no excuse. On the day when a champion for women's rights, Simone Veil, passes away, don't suggest that Bakelants was making a stand against exploitation of women. Or the 90% theory: the one responsible for how people react to a joke is the one who makes the joke. Hence the French expression, turn your tongue seven times before you speak and say something stupid. Bakelants was wrong. Nobody else.

 

[RedheadDane]

If the joke is offensive, yeah. Just because other people do it doesn't mean everybody should. Bad, offensive jokes gotta stop somewhere.

It does not work that way. You either have freedom of speech, and then not matter how nasty, a joke is a joke and at most says something about the author.

You you have a totalitarian society where people are affraid to call out problems for the fear of being misunderstood and punished for doing so.

Wait, what? Isn't telling someone that a joke is offensive calling out problems?
You can have freedom of speech and still be held accountable for what you're saying, if what you're saying is offensive. Freedom of speech isn't being able to bully people without out consequences, it's being able to call out injustice in society without fear of repercussions.

It's not totalitarian to sanction or condemn Bakelants: freedom of expression? Go tell your boss what you think of him/her, tell me how it worked out for you. The bottom line is: at work, remain professional. Race organizers, UCI, or teams expect riders to represent the race, the sport, or the team sponsor in a positive light. That was idiotic behavior. There's no excuse. On the day when a champion for women's rights, Simone Veil, passes away, don't suggest that Bakelants was making a stand against exploitation of women. Or the 90% theory: the one responsible for how people react to a joke is the one who makes the joke. Hence the French expression, turn your tongue seven times before you speak and say something stupid. Bakelants was wrong. Nobody else.

Actually, if someone's boss is a total jerk they should be allowed to say so getting into trouble.
Though, the smart thing might be to bring the issue to someone higher up in the company...

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

Repeat after me: freedom of speech does not= freedom from criticism.

After me (old joke)

 

[Billie]

lol 10 pages ffs

 

[Echoes]

Go tell your boss what you think of him/her, tell me how it worked out for you. The bottom line is: at work, remain professional. Race organizers, UCI, or teams expect riders to represent the race, the sport, or the team sponsor in a positive light. That was idiotic behavior. There's no excuse.

Truth to be hold at a former company I worked for one colleague would crack the same kind of jokes every single day, even to a female team leader (above him in the hierarchy). He never faced any sanctions, least of all threats of being sacked. He never was demanded to apologise. On the contrary even female colleagues still got along very well with him. Everybody in the department agreed he was at times dirty in his mind but none would believe he deserved ostracism for that. Freedom of criticism does not necessarily imply sanctions nor even apology demands. And yet it was easy to get sacked from that company for other reasons (I'm among them). So yes at work remain professional. Cracking jokes at time is not necessarily unprofessional. ASO are just psycho-rigid. They do not deserve their race being watched. :Neutral:

By the way, the posters on here who trashed Bakelandts BUT worship Sagan deserve nothing but contempt! Nothing in the world is more vomitive than hypocrisy. I'm sure in hindsight they realise they are hypocrites and like it that way because they are very bad persons.