Astana rider details Contador's doping practices

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Can we get some timeouts going here for those with difficulty understanding admin warning?

 

[JRTinMA]

the ignorance is on you and hammer, the answer is yes. a texas fanboy like you has no ability to property review the facts even in their own country. your understanding of cycling is beyond helpless. the uci does not administer sanctions. read the wada code.

Name who was sanctioned with a lifetime ban for two failed tests in the same sample or even two days apart. Use daddy.

 

[python]

Can we get some timeouts going here for those with difficulty understanding admin warning?

if you have gotten one you should get the the message !

 

[python]

Name who was sanctioned with a lifetime ban for two failed tests in the same sample or even two days apart. Use daddy.

there is no helping you , a texas fan boy champion, because you have no appreciation of the vagueness and speculation of the question asked. in the contador case there is a rumour of some test that neither the uci nor wada ever confirmed. at the same time the uci said, what ever you want to make of it, that the issue is clen. thus the question is stupid.

 

[webvan]

A lifetime ban, wow that would be tough, on the other hand, lying should count for an offense too, so that' a virtual three.

 

[HoustonHammer]

hammer, if you're not joking, im lost at figuring your cycling knowledge.

have you ever heard of your compatriot ty Hamilton ? (8 years) or a bunch of other dopers
including your other compatriot...forgot his name...who was just nailed for life by usada. less than a week ago. do you watch cycling on a regular basis ?

Yeah, I've been following cycling regularly for years. I haven't ever heard of a cyclist (or any other athlete) getting a lifetime ban on a first offense. And until somebody can cite an example, I'll stick by my position that the idea of a governing body counting consecutive samples in the same competetion as separate testing events that could warrant a first, second and third ban as outlandish.

AC could get one or two years ban, but he's totally safe re a lifetime ban.

 

[Cobblestones]

Well I hope Cyclingnews feels stupid. Humo is a parody magazine. They made up the story!

Don't want to sift through pages and pages. Has that been clarified now? Is the article made up or is it legitimate?

 

[hfer07]

Don't want to sift through pages and pages. Has that been clarified now? Is the article made up or is it legitimate?

it's made up

 

[Galic Ho]

Wow, they removed my post or so it appears. I might have missed it.

Just like I thought they would.

Thanks guys for showing how you boys work across the board. As I said, some people are worse than dopers. The systems in place that you purpote to uphold really aren't important are they? Did I offend your patriotic pride? Don't be offended. Apart from your economy and bozo President, the USA is pretty good. Your country is in a really bad position. If you lost your job tomorrow, would you find another? I feel sympathy for the average american and what they must endure because of a few morons (elected officials). As for the Nth Korea joke. I have a friend that just returned from living in Shanghai and who visited Nth Korea. Not a bad place at all unless you're vocal. Not as bad as the American press has decreed this past decade.

I looked at the other threads that sprung up over a 12 hour period. TFF has been trying to appear differently than I described. He even asked that Evans be tested. I wonder why? That's right...I said he only hated dopers so he could have something to hate. Asking for a level playing field wasn't in his interest. Well credit is due. At least you attempted to level the playing field. But seriously, asking for Evans an Aussie. Is there a link to me there? Hmmnnn. There is a coincidence I'll say. Time will tell if your request was genuine or for appearances. Like most Americans, he is predictable none the less. I struck a nerve didn't I? I've been saying for a long time on this froum Aussies aren't they type of people who get pushed around. We always stand our ground. It's in our national psyche. I guess someone pointing out that another person is a coward who derives pleasure from abusing others anonymously is considered bad in most westernised nations. Fair enough, the old post had to go. I mean TFF abused one forumist so badly that poster created a new alias, but still the admins stuck up for him. Not that I have a great problem with that, everyone deserves a second chance...Alpe and Bala are decent posters and admins who I've noticed do a lot of the muscle work.

Think I'm wrong TFF? Then stop altering your behaviour every time I point out a fault. No, not all Americans are bad...most are decent people. Most of the things I enjoy have origins in the USA, movies, tv, music. You want to know how America is represented today to the world. It is through the internet. Buy yourself a gaming console and hop online and see how America raises it's youth. They voice their opinions live halfway across the globe. They are a direct reflection of the parents or should I say, lack of parenting. It is quite sad, not that other nations youth aren't bad, but American kids have formed their own stereotype which isn't pretty.

Funny thing is, TFF is the primary reason BPC plagued the CN forums. He never altered his behaviour much. He only varied to avoid the daily bans. You gave the guy fuel. He is part of the reason the Clinic became a joke. He was often dealt with promplty by one smart and factual post. Some thought slagging him would **** him off. It didn't. Seeing yet how your behaviour is negative to the Clinic TFF? Irony is since BPC's departure one thing has remained true...some of the posters bagging dopers are as bad if not worse than he was. Double irony is that TFF acts just like one LA. Standover man. The enforcer. You're predictable dude. Could your brain cells cumulative weight be in picograms? Nah, not possible, you can type and spell. You were right however about one thing. If AC does go down, it will be for Clenbuterol and possibly plasticizers. But that isn't the point. It's always in the finer details. You are also wrong TFF addressing everyone who disagrees with you as having AC as a hero. I don't think any cyclist riding presently is heroic. They're sportsmen. Albeit most are doped. Most heroes end up dead, because they do something heroic. If Contador is my hero. why is my avatar a picture of Cunego? You use the hero monicker as ammunition to back your point of view. But it isn't reflective at all. Just stereotyping like I did of the USA. Neither was accurate and you and I know it. The man who is an antithesis to AC and all the other GC dopers?

Back to AC. If you want to know why the plasticizer test is not clear, look at Merckx Index's post. That is why the Clinic is good. I'd advise everyone to read it. As I was pointing out in between bagging some people, there are problems with the WADA code. What level or threshold is performance enhancing and what should the test perameters be are questions that remain unclear. I get how some people here think you should be able to throw any new test randomly into the public sphere like a suicide bomber and see how many you can get. That doesn't work. You end up with cases like Valjavec's, where they get off. You're simply following an appeasement process. Appearing to be pro-active. All the more reason for a separate doping enforcing body in cycling beside the UCI.

There are too many unknowns with the plasticizer test, and others as well, that those who desire an understanding will be left questioning the motives. Worse, if your officiating bodies protocols aren't clear, cut and properly measured, you end up having to say that your methods don't necessarily prove doping. You end up with someone who for all means is a doper, but you're stretching the imagination to catch them. It's almost like fitting the facts for the result you want. That is never desirable. You need to be able to say beyond a doubt with scientific backing rider A is doping and for a list of reasons that show a performance enhancement that is crystal clear. If you don't, what are you doing psychologically? You're creating a scapegoat. It's appeasement, nothing more. Worse, the other pro cyclists know and the affect of catching a big name is little. The other pro's feel sympathy, not shame. In trying to reverse Omerta the stigmatisation of being a doper needs to be reversed. This outcome does nothing. As I said, if this plasticizer test is as good as they suggest and CAS would not reject it, everyone and I mean everyone needs to be tested tomorrow. All the GT samples. Everyone who gave blood. Get them all in one big swoop. Catch a lot at once, make a deal with them all and give cycling a face change. But as I said, that wouldn't be in the interests of either side of the fence. It would spoil their system and that is wrong. The clean guy still gets shafted. If what I prescribe doesn't happen all this test will ever amount to is a small weapon used to catch the guys falling between the cracks. The ones who fuel the system on it's progressive path. We don't have clean GT winners, we just have the next doped guy winning. Who here wouldn't like to be able to say that Greg Lemond wasn't the last guy to win a GT clean? I would.

PS: To the admins, I won't reply to TFF for a very long time. I'll just ignore him. I've said my two cents.

 

[rata de sentina]

Don't want to sift through pages and pages. Has that been clarified now? Is the article made up or is it legitimate?

Well, according to a friend who should know it's a well known satirical magazine known for 'creative' articles. You can make your own mind up about how legitimate it is . All I can say that some peoples credulity goes out the window when something reinforces their own opinions regardless of how ludicrous it is.

 

[python]

Well, according to a friend who should know it's a well known satirical magazine known for 'creative' articles. You can make your own mind up about how legitimate it is . All I can say that some peoples credulity goes out the window when something reinforces their own opinions regardless of how ludicrous it is.

the fascinating thing is that out of hundreds of posts on the article all missed one thing - it was a web-based pre-article scheduled for publication tomorrow. more details are likely to be included if the article to see the light at all. if it's withdrawn, or rescheduled, we'll know that some fact-checking might have been the reason.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Guys, Barrus wasn't kidding about warnings, infractions and bans. Some of you got some warnings, and you likely noticed many posts have been removed. If you don't like what someone else is posting, or feel they don't understand, don't blast back at them. Just ignore them, politely tell them to look up the rules on their own, or don't respond at all.

Has there ever been a life-time ban given for being caught violating two doping rules at once? Sounds *VERY* far-fetched.

To clarify and help move things along: To the best of my knowledge, not in the same exact test, no. More or less, if they found both clen and blood doping in AC's test in question, that wouldn't be a double/lifetime ban. If they found this, and then looking further found other failed tests, potentially yes.

 

[redranger]

I call BS on this story. if it was true I would most likley mean the team new about it and is then implicated. wouldnt be very god for a team trying to get pro tour.

 

[Mich78BEL]

if it's withdrawn, or rescheduled, we'll know that some fact-checking might have been the reason.

it isn't withdrawn, if got a subscription to the magazine and just received an e-mail where they talked about this interview again

 

[Cobblestones]

it isn't withdrawn, if got a subscription to the magazine and just received an e-mail where they talked about this interview again

So you're saying the story is legitimate? I still don't think we have a consensus here. What I noticed is that no one else (except for this place and a few other cycling websites/blogs) has picked it up. Some members here (and not all of them are Contador fanboys) say it's fabricated.

Has anyone of the CN staff contacted the magazine and asked whether they say it's legitimate or satire? That would rule out one possibility. Of course, there's still the possibility that the source is corrupt. Good journalists can try to check these things, but mistakes can happen. Of course, if CN doesn't know the source, they can't do much about it and have to trust the journalists of the Belgian magazine...

I'm still puzzled that a basic question such as 'is it satire or legitimate' hasn't been answered yet.

 

[webvan]

It's been answered x times based on my reading of the topic, some fanboys are clutching at straws, but how and why on earth would something like this have been fabricated in such detail and with info that hadn't leaked.

 

[flicker]

why would an astana rider turn in a team-mate?

 

[Anonymous]

In light of python's revelations, let's wait and see which mechanics go over to RadioShack

I thought Chris Van Roosbroeck was already at Radioshack, he was also mechanic for Lance at Disco etc.

 

[Race Radio]

I thought Chris Van Roosbroeck was already at Radioshack, he was also mechanic for Lance at Disco etc.

He was one of the only people to stay behind at Astana when everyone fled to RS.

Nothing like having a plant on the team of your biggest rival.....but that only helps when you are actually competitive.

 

[Anonymous]

He was one of the only people to stay behind at Astana when everyone fled to RS.

Nothing like having a plant on the team of your biggest rival.....but that only helps when you are actually competitive.

Really.. Oh well, that confirms it then.. Hes the grass

 

[webvan]

The Kazakhs and Spaniards are probably trying to track him down...this is going to get ugly...

 

[Hugh Januss]

He was one of the only people to stay behind at Astana when everyone fled to RS.

Nothing like having a plant on the team of your biggest rival.....but that only helps when you are actually competitive.

Yeah but you can still get some sweet revenge, and take a little media heat off........

 

[Polish]

You do have to admit the RadioShack plan was a good one....

First, have the "Plant" spike Alberto's dinner with clen and nanotech plastic bits.

Next, after Alberto inevitably triggers the doper alarms, have the "Plant" concoct a story about seeing Alberto injecting clen and transfusing blood.

Bruyneel HAD to be part of this. Genius.

 

[Oldman]

You do have to admit the RadioShack plan was a good one....

First, have the "Plant" spike Alberto's dinner with clen and nanotech plastic bits.

Next, after Alberto inevitably triggers the doper alarms, have the "Plant" concoct a story about seeing Alberto injecting clen and transfusing blood.

Bruyneel HAD to be part of this. Genius.

Polish-long time no talkee. I see Mike Myer's playing several roles in the movie of this fiasco...Who plays Alberto? Sasha Cohen is too tall.

 

[Adamastor]

So you're saying the story is legitimate? I still don't think we have a consensus here. What I noticed is that no one else (except for this place and a few other cycling websites/blogs) has picked it up. Some members here (and not all of them are Contador fanboys) say it's fabricated.

Has anyone of the CN staff contacted the magazine and asked whether they say it's legitimate or satire? That would rule out one possibility. Of course, there's still the possibility that the source is corrupt. Good journalists can try to check these things, but mistakes can happen. Of course, if CN doesn't know the source, they can't do much about it and have to trust the journalists of the Belgian magazine...

I'm still puzzled that a basic question such as 'is it satire or legitimate' hasn't been answered yet.

I've been following this thread for the last days, and it struck me how offensive The Hog was on stating, that the article is a fake.

Hog, kindly explain:

- have you got information we don't about the article, and Humo?
- are you basing your statement on the fact the magazine was forced to retain copies (to me, doesn't mean it's bad journalism, simply that it went too far in its investigations)

Thanks for CLEAR explanation.

I haven't read the article (it's supposed to come out today in full, isn't it?). I read from 2 to 3 posters here, they have known the magazine for 10 years, why should I trust you and not them?

Again, thanks for explaining...

As for velonation and/or Cyclingnews, as long they state their source, there's no reason for them to investigate further. That's how media work.

Finally, if you check the puzzle (clenbuterol, Dauphine Libere, TdF, plasticizer, transfusions in June/July, whereabouts of Contador), it all simply matches perfectly. Too perfect? Maybe, but at present Contador was caught with clen,it's up to him to prove his innocence now.

Until now, looking at all details, I believe in the DL /TDF version, not in the tainted-meat-out-of-Spain story.