Astana

[meat puppet]

Can't compare a mountain TT versus normal stages though...

the underlying physiological parameters are the same regardless of the stage type.

 

[burning]

Can't compare a mountain TT versus normal stages though...

I'm comparing him with Lance's 2004 Alpe, which is a fairly accurate comparison

 

[Lanark]

Can't compare a mountain TT versus normal stages though...

Yes, you don't have the benefit of drafting or the advantage of somebody else setting the pace...

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

You are a bunch of sad people

 

[Arnout]

Yes, you don't have the benefit of drafting or the advantage of somebody else setting the pace...

Compare any mountain TT to a normal mountain stage and you will find that mountain TTs are faster without exception.

You can have all kind of theories about drafting and what not, it simply doesn't matter when it's easy to find that it's simply not comparable.

I'm comparing him with Lance's 2004 Alpe, which is a fairly accurate comparison

Fair enough.

 

[Samson777]

What a strawman



How about riders who didn't build their entire careers on cheating and lies?

That would be cool. But to be brutal honest, I wouldn't be sure what succesful rider to pick.. Would you? Lemond..? Or maybe guys riding in the era, where doping was allowed.

Of course you could argue he should pick someone like Bassons, but honestly, how many young riders will have heroes who was not succesful...?

 

[Netserk]

Compare any mountain TT to a normal mountain stage and you will find that mountain TTs are faster without exception.

You can have all kind of theories about drafting and what not, it simply doesn't matter when it's easy to find that it's simply not comparable.

Doesn't Alberto have the best time on Eze?

 

[burning]

Doesn't Alberto have the best time on Eze?

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/03/richie-porte-and-7-wkg-holy-grail.html

Yes he does but Contador was batsh1t insane during those years.

 

[Benotti69]

You are a bunch of sad people

Not as sad as those who cheer for cheaters

 

[roundabout]

1675 VAM is quite fast, still he's not even close to Lance, that's good news.

1675 VAM is over 40 minutes on Alpe d'Huez

I think the VAM meter is once again broken

 

[burning]

1675 VAM is over 40 minutes on Alpe d'Huez

I think the VAM meter is once again broken

1675 VAM is for Aru, I think Lance did like 1780 VAM

 

[Lanark]

Compare any mountain TT to a normal mountain stage and you will find that mountain TTs are faster without exception.

You can have all kind of theories about drafting and what not, it simply doesn't matter when it's easy to find that it's simply not comparable.



Fair enough.

Wasn't Santi Perez faster in the 2004 (?) Vuelta on the same mountain during a regular stage compared to the MTT thr next day?

 

[roundabout]

1675 VAM is for Aru, I think Lance did like 1780 VAM

Yeah, I know. The VAM for today is once again a bit off because of a couple of flat bits.

Did he change the bike and is it included in the calculations?

I only managed to catch the last 25 minutes or so.

 

[roundabout]

Wasn't Santi Perez faster in the 2004 (?) Vuelta on the same mountain during a regular stage compared to the MTT thr next day?

Could be, but Monachil was only 1/2 way through the MTT

 

[Arnout]

Doesn't Alberto have the best time on Eze?

I'm mostly talking about comparative performances during a race. I mean Mayo was obviously doping in the Ventoux ITT he won but if that was after three weeks of Tour de France he would've been a minute slower probably.

 

[burning]

Yeah, I know. The VAM for today is once again a bit off because of a couple of flat bits.

Did he change the bike and is it included in the calculations?

I only managed to catch the last 25 minutes or so.

VAM value is probably calculated between 1st time check and finish but you are right about bike change. I think that the insane pushes from mechanics could compensate the time loss while changing the bike, they shouldn't change the outcome too much.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Not as sad as those who cheer for cheaters

we all miss Lemond
Last time a clean rider won something of notics

 

[Netserk]

I'm mostly talking about comparative performances during a race. I mean Mayo was obviously doping in the Ventoux ITT he won but if that was after three weeks of Tour de France he would've been a minute slower probably.

How is the last stage in P-N and the last stage in P-N not comparable?

 

[Arnout]

How is the last stage in P-N and the last stage in P-N not comparable?

Because they're different years. My point is that whenever you compare W/kg during a MTT versus other mountain top finishes of the same guy in the same race the W/kg will always be higher in the MTT (unless you talk about someone like Arredondo who took it easy today).

 

[roundabout]

Because they're different years. My point is that whenever you compare W/kg during a MTT versus other mountain top finishes of the same guy in the same race the W/kg will always be higher in the MTT (unless you talk about someone like Arredondo who took it easy today).

I'd make a guess that Armstrong had higher W/kg on Alpe d'Huez in 2001 than on Chamrousse even accounting for extra 30 minutes of effort in the MTT

 

[The Hitch]

The gradient for both climbs is quite similar (%8.1 vs %8) but there is definitely a big difference between 55 minutes vs 37.5 minutes effort.

He's probably cleans though

Alpe is 8.1??

I though it was 8.5 (and it was still average).

8.1? Its a disgrace how hyped that mountain is

 

[GuyIncognito]

Alpe is 8.1??

I though it was 8.5 (and it was still average).

8.1? Its a disgrace how hyped that mountain is

It is hyped.
However, it's harder than its stats would suggest because you come from a false flat downhill straight into the hardest slopes. As a result everyone subconsciously keeps an artificially high early pace, making you quite tired for the rest of the climb

 

[jens_attacks]

It is hyped.
However, it's harder than its stats would suggest because you come from a false flat downhill straight into the hardest slopes. As a result everyone subconsciously keeps an artificially high early pace, making you quite tired for the rest of the climb

the first 12 kms are at 8,6%. the last km scrrews its gradient a lot

 

[The Hitch]

That would be cool. But to be brutal honest, I wouldn't be sure what succesful rider to pick.. Would you? Lemond..? Or maybe guys riding in the era, where doping was allowed.

Of course you could argue he should pick someone like Bassons, but honestly, how many young riders will have heroes who was not succesful...?

No, I argue that he shouldn't pick Contador and Pantani and Scarponi, not without qualifiers anyway.

Unless he's basically saying he doesn't give a **** about doping. In which case, fair enough, he's not being a hypocrite, but then it is suspicious. And if he doesn't care what people thing, good for him. I'm not passing judgement on his morals but on whether or not praising all the dopers is demonstrative of this supposed new clean breed of cyclists.

Not that faux outrage like some former Lance fans have shown, is the answer either, but if they aren't even bothered to pretend that guys like Contador and Pantani did something wrong, then where is cycling at?

Because, to paraphrase Kimmage, what is it about dopers that clean riders admire so much?

 

[luckyboy]

He rides for Astana. All this stuff is kinda pointless to talk about no?