thehog said:
The other point I'll add if a guy like Scarponi and several other of his level are still working with Ferrari and doping then what hope is there for the top tier wining GT's?
I still can't work out what changed? I know speeds are slower than Pantani and Armstrong but that doesn't mean "no doping".
I've never really heard a credible answer to why cycling is now clean.
It is depends what you consider clean. Totally clean is maybe not possible
I think that is difficult to answer your question. I know that is like that, but is posible to demostrate?n I dont Know, maybe no. But you cant demostrate me the contrary.
Biopassport and Adams make a big change, but things cant change just in one day, that needs time. it has been a question of credibility of cycling, Cycling cant deal with more scandals, and there is a problem, even if you want to hide something, things will be know sooner or later, and if all this things you believe is a circus or marketing, it is how you think, cycling will have too options: admit that and star a new cycling with tolerance with doping, that a lot of people will not want, including me... or stop profesional cycling. We have in Spain a big problems with sponsors, with a lot of things.. and the main problem for that has been doping, becouse this have been a good place for doping, with good doctors as well.
For me clean cycling started in 2011, even I see stange things on some races, but I am convinced Evans won clean in the Tour.
After Contador case, before there is a transitional time from 2008, but even after 2003 some things changed. Contador was important to change mind in some people. The most important rider, protected by Riis, could be santioned with an small evidence.
But that doenst mean clean, not totally clean, but year by year better.
I have been a little inside this world, I have heard cyclist talking about how to avoid a positive, I have interchange opinions with them, and I do today, and things are quite different. They told me, when I am riding in this country everybody dope, in this other nodody dope, in this races just riders from that team dope, and there are some riders you have a full confidence in what they say and what they see... how to make you fell the same?, I think that is impossible. You rely on some people, maybe some friend, that you cant convince me of the same...
Evidences? Well, there is not evidence, there are some things to take in account. One is that now colombian and french riders are again on the top.
You have one evidence, not evidence of no doping, but evidence things have change a lot about EPO or transfusions, and that is that, believed clean or not Lance or Horner, his biopassport shows 42-43 at the end of a GT...with Pantani that was 52 or more, two months before 42.
So, you must admit that blood doping has fallen a lot, beliving or not the Zorzoli graph.. I believe becouse the data are acorrding to that.
Froom that, there is a reality, nowadays teams waste a lot of money in a lot of profesionals that they didnt before, and they waste a lot of resources in work long time in altittude: Teide, Sierra Nevada, Colorado, Etna, etc...that is an advantage for performance, but performance is today not better and the routes are shorter and soft compared to ie Le tour 2003. If we consider as well the better bikes and the globalization, that give more talented riders, it hard to believe that the average speed or the w/kg power in the climbs are not better now.
I will continue another day.