At what point do you turn off the TV and give up on the Tour?

[on3m@n@rmy]

Just for entertainment value, maybe they should change the front derailleur specs by getting rid of the modern systems and go back to the 1950's versions with shifters on the seat tube or derailleur. Then tactics could involve riding up alongside someone, punching their front DR to the little ring (on flats) or big ring (on climbs), and then the puncher takes off. Then we would see lots of fist fights too whenever the puncher was caught.

... just kiding ofc, and I'm still watching. Though classics and other one day racers are becoming more interesting to me.

 

[kuoirad]

I like and second this idea.

Just for entertainment value, maybe they should change the front derailleur specs by getting rid of the modern systems and go back to the 1950's versions with shifters on the seat tube or derailleur. Then tactics could involve riding up alongside someone, punching their front DR to the little ring (on flats) or big ring (on climbs), and then the puncher takes off. Then we would see lots of fist fights too whenever the puncher was caught.

 

[stampedingviking]

About now methinks. Doesn't matter who you support in this race it's just plain boring.

I honestly can't think of more than 3 highlights the entire race.

Sad really.

Probably doesn't help having a super powerful team but the leaders are fairly beige.

I gave up on Friday but turned off the TV today before the stage completed.

Bully for you, why don't you just stick to spouting your bilge in the Clinic?

 

[Lucky1]

Try tennis

About now methinks. Doesn't matter who you support in this race it's just plain boring.

I honestly can't think of more than 3 highlights the entire race.

Sad really.

Probably doesn't help having a super powerful team but the leaders are fairly beige.

I gave up on Friday but turned off the TV today before the stage completed.

If you want dull racing - take a look at the final week of last year's Vuelta or the 2010 Tour. Last year's Tour was the best in a long time and, whilst this year is missing the epic Mountain stages (though fingers crossed for Wednesday and Thursday) it has still been a great Tour so far. Maybe tennis is more your sport?

 

[Old&slow]

Absent the crashes on the sprint stages I think this been the best Tour since 2006 or the 2007 Tour won by Rasmussen. While the course is not set up for climbers or attacking I love the attitude of Lotto, Liquisgas and BMC. They have not stopped attacking. We have not seen such fearless attacks like this in many years.

For me, the Tour to me is not about attacks, not about mountain top finishes but the interaction of the riders and the teams. Who controls the race and the decisions they make. For the most part Mountain stages are pretty boring in comparison to sprint stages. I find sprint stages much more exciting. Unfortunately Garmin and the crashes they caused has has hurt the sprint stages quite a bit this year.

The biggest loss in this years Tour is absence of HTC. HTC never would have allowed a stage like stage 12 to happen. There is no way a break would have succeeded with HTC in control. I found that stage to be the most disappointing in the Tour where Sprinter teams simply did not care enough to force a sprint.

The biggest gain this year has been the exclusion of Contador and all the drama he brings. It has been a pleasure not having to hear his daily press rants and whines all followed by accusations the next day that he or his his crazy brother has been misquoted once again. But its just no the drama he brings but that the racing is much better without him. Riders seem much more willing to attack without him. His exclusion has been a huge boon for the Tour this year. Hopefully ASO will ban him next year as well. The Tour and cycling certainly has been better off without him. To a lesser extent and for some of the same reasons as Contador of bringing drama and poor attitude I am also happy not to see Andy at the Tour as well.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Absent the crashes on the sprint stages I think this been the best Tour since 2006 or the 2007 Tour won by Rasmussen. While the course is not set up for climbers or attacking I love the attitude of Lotto, Liquisgas and BMC. They have not stopped attacking. We have not seen attacks like this in many years.

For me, the Tour to me is not about attacks, not about mountain top finishes but the interaction of the riders and the teams. Who controls the race and the decisions they make. For the most part Mountain stages are pretty boring in comparison to sprint stages. I find sprint stages much more exciting. Unfortunately Garmin and the crashes they caused has has hurt the sprint stages quite a bit this year.

The biggest loss in this years Tour is absence of HTC. HTC never would have allowed a stage like stage 12 to happen. There is no way a break would have succeeded with HTC in control. I found that stage to be the most disappointing in the Tour where Sprinter teams simply did not care enough to force a sprint.

The biggest gain this year has been the exclusion of Contador and all the drama he brings. It has been a pleasure not having to hear his daily press rants, whines all followed by his daily denial that he or his his crazy brother has been misquoted once again. But the racing is much better without him. Riders seem much more willing to attack without him. His exclusion has been a huge boon for the Tour this year. Hopefully ASO will ban him next year as well. The Tour and cycling certainly has been better off without him. To a lesser extent and for some of the same reasons as Contador of bringing drama and poor attitude I am also happy not to see Andy at the Tour as well.

I think I have found my nemesis.

I think it would be extremely difficult to find ways for me to disagree more with you, short of your announcing that Amets Txurruka is a boring cyclist that you hate, and that Team Sky have brought unpredictability and excitement to the Tour this year. I'm not the biggest Contador fan in the world, but at least he would have shaken things up, so that it wasn't just a one-team parade.

Really? HTC brought excitement? Really? ...Really?

 

[The Real GFY]

Absent the crashes on the sprint stages I think this been the best Tour since 2006 or the 2007 Tour won by Rasmussen. While the course is not set up for climbers or attacking I love the attitude of Lotto, Liquisgas and BMC. They have not stopped attacking. We have not seen attacks like this in many years.

For me, the Tour to me is not about attacks, not about mountain top finishes but the interaction of the riders and the teams. Who controls the race and the decisions they make. For the most part Mountain stages are pretty boring in comparison to sprint stages. I find sprint stages much more exciting. Unfortunately Garmin and the crashes they caused has has hurt the sprint stages quite a bit this year.

The biggest loss in this years Tour is absence of HTC. HTC never would have allowed a stage like stage 12 to happen. There is no way a break would have succeeded with HTC in control. I found that stage to be the most disappointing in the Tour where Sprinter teams simply did not care enough to force a sprint.

The biggest gain this year has been the exclusion of Contador and all the drama he brings. It has been a pleasure not having to hear his daily press rants, whines all followed by accusations that he claims that he or his his crazy brother has been misquoted once again. But its just no the drama he brings but that the racing is much better without him. Riders seem much more willing to attack without him. His exclusion has been a huge boon for the Tour this year. Hopefully ASO will ban him next year as well. The Tour and cycling certainly has been better off without him. To a lesser extent and for some of the same reasons as Contador of bringing drama and poor attitude I am also happy not to see Andy at the Tour as well.

While I am not turning off from the race, this year's edition does not really fit the bill of the best of recent times. Last year's was definitely quite dramatic.

HTC made races better? I thought they made them more boring by neutralizing the breaks.

Contador would have made this year's race much more exciting. He is a dynamic protagonist. I don't recall him whining much, so I am not sure what you are on about?

 

[Magnus]

Don't we seem to say the same every year at the Tour. Possibility of an interesting descent but put waaayyy too far from the finish so no one bothers to waste the energy in a futile attack.

I guess you missed the stages to Gap and Pinerolo last year.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I guess you missed the stages to Gap and Pinerolo last year.

Those had 40km of rolling terrain after the descent?

I thought what made those so good was that the finish was pretty much straight after the descent, which enticed, rather than discouraged, attacks. Attacking today was discouraged because you'd need to TT away from the pack for 40km after the end of the descent; finishing in Foix the first time, without that circuit, however, could have made for a much better stage, along the lines of those stages you mention.

 

[jens_attacks]

i'd still watch it so turning off the tv is at the moment out of the question.

still...it'd be better to let these guys come back:

too bad for today's stage because the tour was great until today...which was one of the most dreadful stages since a long time

 

[Old&slow]

Really? HTC brought excitement? Really? ...Really?

HTC brought stability, less crashes and more sprints. So yes more excitement. With a dominant team leading out I doubt we would have seen so many crashes tarnish the sprint stages this year. Even with Garmin in the race doing their best to crash everyone. HTC would also not let a stage like stage 12 ever happen. If there is a possibility of a sprint they would single handily make sure one happened,

Stage 12 IMO was a travesty. There is no way the sprinters should have allowed that break to stay away Unfortunately we had Liquigas, Lotto and Sky all having GC people and they did not want to pull and Greenedge was simply to lazy to pull. HTC would have provided us with an exciting sprint finish in stage 12 instead of a boring breakaway and they likely would have allowed us to avoid crashes in stage 5 and 6 giving us full sprints in both, While I was never a big fan of HTC I see how much their absence this year has effected the sprint stages and its much for the worse,

 

[Magnus]

Those had 40km of rolling terrain after the descent?

No. Which was my point.

 

[whittashau]

Absent the crashes on the sprint stages I think this been the best Tour since 2006 or the 2007 Tour won by Rasmussen. While the course is not set up for climbers or attacking I love the attitude of Lotto, Liquisgas and BMC. They have not stopped attacking. We have not seen such fearless attacks like this in many years.

For me, the Tour to me is not about attacks, not about mountain top finishes but the interaction of the riders and the teams. Who controls the race and the decisions they make. For the most part Mountain stages are pretty boring in comparison to sprint stages. I find sprint stages much more exciting. Unfortunately Garmin and the crashes they caused has has hurt the sprint stages quite a bit this year.

The biggest loss in this years Tour is absence of HTC. HTC never would have allowed a stage like stage 12 to happen. There is no way a break would have succeeded with HTC in control. I found that stage to be the most disappointing in the Tour where Sprinter teams simply did not care enough to force a sprint.

The biggest gain this year has been the exclusion of Contador and all the drama he brings. It has been a pleasure not having to hear his daily press rants and whines all followed by accusations the next day that he or his his crazy brother has been misquoted once again. But its just no the drama he brings but that the racing is much better without him. Riders seem much more willing to attack without him. His exclusion has been a huge boon for the Tour this year. Hopefully ASO will ban him next year as well. The Tour and cycling certainly has been better off without him. To a lesser extent and for some of the same reasons as Contador of bringing drama and poor attitude I am also happy not to see Andy at the Tour as well.

So basically you dislike unpredictability and drama. You want predictable endings which are achieved through robotic efficiency and control?

You make that time-trial loving guy seem normal.

 

[Caruut]

I think I have found my nemesis.

I think it would be extremely difficult to find ways for me to disagree more with you, short of your announcing that Amets Txurruka is a boring cyclist that you hate, and that Team Sky have brought unpredictability and excitement to the Tour this year. I'm not the biggest Contador fan in the world, but at least he would have shaken things up, so that it wasn't just a one-team parade.

Really? HTC brought excitement? Really? ...Really?

LOL @ the bolded.

I think he might be joking. I certainly hope he is.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

HTC brought stability, less crashes and more sprints. So yes more excitement. With a dominant team leading out I doubt we would have seen so many crashes tarnish the sprint stages this year.

Evidently you didn't watch the 2011 Tour.

While I was never a big fan of HTC I see how much their absence this year has effected the sprint stages and its much for the worse,

But it IS less predictable. You say last year a stage like stage 12 could never have happened. But that's precisely why some disliked HTC - there was never a sense the break could make it, and that now sometimes they do is seen as a good thing. Look at stage 5, with the exciting finale with the sprinters finally overhauling Ghyselinck and Urtasun with less than 200m to go - that was excitement! Had that been HTC, the break would have sat with 2-3 minutes advantage all day until being swallowed up comfortably with about 5km to go - just too short for counter attacks to form - before unleashing a highly controlled love-in where if anybody even threatens to get into a better position than Cavendish, Renshaw will cut them off at the pass. During the 2010 race, Chris Boardman at one point tweeted something akin to "just had a nap for 3 hours, went to catch up on the race and it's exactly as I left it". The sprint itself may be exciting (if you like foregone conclusions), but the stage leading up to it is about as exciting as West Germany vs. Austria in the 1982 World Cup.

 

[Froome19]

About now methinks. Doesn't matter who you support in this race it's just plain boring.

I honestly can't think of more than 3 highlights the entire race.

Sad really.

Probably doesn't help having a super powerful team but the leaders are fairly beige.

I gave up on Friday but turned off the TV today before the stage completed.

Unfortunately you are going to have to get used to it because it is not going to change anytime soon...

 

[diorgen]

I did after the La Touissore or however you spell it stage, have watched a few finishes and haven't regretted it one bit, doing more riding instead. What a huge letdown, and this is usually my favorite time of the year, even followed it in person a few years ago.

 

[Magnus]

But that's precisely why some disliked HTC - there was never a sense the break could make it, and that now sometimes they do is seen as a good thing. Look at stage 5, with the exciting finale with the sprinters finally overhauling Ghyselinck and Urtasun with less than 200m to go - that was excitement! Had that been HTC, the break would have sat with 2-3 minutes advantage all day until being swallowed up comfortably with about 5km to go - just too short for counter attacks to form - before unleashing a highly controlled love-in where if anybody even threatens to get into a better position than Cavendish, Renshaw will cut them off at the pass.

Remember stage 5 of TdF 2009?

 

[lanternrouge]

OP.If you do not like it why not switch off? And while you are at it just ****** off because you are a whiney little ***** and you really are boring the *** of me.
Tool.

 

[richwagmn]

About now methinks. Doesn't matter who you support in this race it's just plain boring.

I honestly can't think of more than 3 highlights the entire race.

Sad really.

Probably doesn't help having a super powerful team but the leaders are fairly beige.

I gave up on Friday but turned off the TV today before the stage completed.

It is a bore but is that a surprise given the course this year? Wiggins will get his one tour and Froome will lead next year. And AC and Andy will be back.

For me, Sagan is the story of the tour.

 

[Thee_chisa]

for american newcomers it is boring as they have no one to cheer on from the US.

 

[Old&slow]

Evidently you didn't watch the 2011 Tour.



But it IS less predictable. You say last year a stage like stage 12 could never have happened. But that's precisely why some disliked HTC - there was never a sense the break could make it, and that now sometimes they do is seen as a good thing. Look at stage 5, with the exciting finale with the sprinters finally overhauling Ghyselinck and Urtasun with less than 200m to go - that was excitement! Had that been HTC, the break would have sat with 2-3 minutes advantage all day until being swallowed up comfortably with about 5km to go - just too short for counter attacks to form - before unleashing a highly controlled love-in where if anybody even threatens to get into a better position than Cavendish, Renshaw will cut them off at the pass. During the 2010 race, Chris Boardman at one point tweeted something akin to "just had a nap for 3 hours, went to catch up on the race and it's exactly as I left it". The sprint itself may be exciting (if you like foregone conclusions), but the stage leading up to it is about as exciting as West Germany vs. Austria in the 1982 World Cup.

We may just have to agree to disagree. But in regards to stage 12 I find a full sprint much more exciting and less predictable than letting 5 riders that no one cares about go on a break get 12 minutes and win the stage where no one contests it. I find that boring and much more predictable than a bunch sprint.

Unpredictability is not a bad thing but it is not everything. Watching the dynamics of sprint teams decide who is going to pull, who is going to play chicken is always interesting and what cycling is all about. Removing the stability of a dominant sprint team simply means we end up with more crashes as everyone is fighting to put their train on the road in the last 5kms and get their position. It also means sprints are not contested by the best sprinters and boring stages where breakaways are not contested. We have only had one full sprint this Tour where everyone has been present.

The bottomline is with or without HTC any breakaway that sprinters want to catch will be caught 95% of the time but when the sprinters/GC teams do not contest a breakaway it will stay away 100% of time. Much more predictability and watching value when the sprinter teams actually chase. The major difference is with a dominant sprint team like HTC there will be less crashes in the last 5kms and predictable boring uncontested breakaway snooze fests like stage 12 will happen a lot less. The end result is more sprints with a full sprint field, more dynamics between sprint teams and less boring predictable uncontested stages.

 

[taiwan]

Just for entertainment value, maybe they should change the front derailleur specs by getting rid of the modern systems and go back to the 1950's versions with shifters on the seat tube or derailleur. Then tactics could involve riding up alongside someone, punching their front DR to the little ring (on flats) or big ring (on climbs), and then the puncher takes off. Then we would see lots of fist fights too whenever the puncher was caught.

... just kiding ofc, and I'm still watching. Though classics and other one day racers are becoming more interesting to me.

It's puncheur.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Remember stage 5 of TdF 2009?

Yup, so did HTC, and that's why they vowed never to let it happen again. In 2010 you had about four stages in a row where the break got about 3 minutes max.

The bottomline is with or without HTC any breakaway that sprinters want to catch will be caught 99% of the time. The difference is with a dominant sprint team there will be less crashes in the last 5kms and predictable boring boring uncontested breakaway snooze fests like stage 12 will happen a lot less. The end result is more sprints with a full sprint field, more dynamics between sprint teams and less boring predictable uncontested stages.

But a lot of the crashes weren't in the last 5km, they were in the phase where the sprinters' trains are being brought forward but they still need to jostle for position prior to the run-in with the GC guys and their teams who are trying to protect their position, and nobody's lost time so everybody's still got something to protect. Having HTC wouldn't have changed that, as we saw last year.

You're also making the assumption that the sprinters' teams would have wanted to catch the breakaway. They didn't. Anyway, wasn't the finish there on a bit of an uphill? Your ire should be more directed at the puncheur teams, not the sprinters. HTC wouldn't have pulled hard to bring things back on a puncheur stage because they didn't have the best puncheur in the péloton.

 

[Magnus]

Yup, so did HTC, and that's why they vowed never to let it happen again. In 2010 you had about four stages in a row where the break got about 3 minutes max.

But still they failed to achieve a mass sprint on one occurrence in the 2010 TdF.