Australian Crime Commission investigation finds widespread doping

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Mrs John Murphy said:
That's the argument, but it breaks down because some bowlers had terrible actions - Marshall, Willis etc all had non-textbook actions.

An action in itself is not going to enable you to bowl 40+ overs in an innings regularly.

I know this has nothing to do with doping, but Marshall had a superb action, best fast bowler I have ever seen.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Mrs John Murphy said:
If you want a good before and after.

Gareth Thomas of Wales is a good example of a roided up rugby player.

See if you can find some photos of him when he debuted aged 21/22 and when he finished his career.

04432-zoom.jpg


From skinny winger

to

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Matthew 'Ape Man' Hayden is a roids boy, and always amazing how McGrath could bowl those very long spells. Oh yes, sorry, it was down to the superior training that the Aussies were doing.
get some similar pics of Chris Hoy as a young rider, before his head grew, and arms grew, and quads grew
 
Sep 22, 2012
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blackcat said:
Ryan Harris. mediocre medium pacer. then came back into state teams, forcing his way via one-day form, into national team, then into the team team via one-day national team form.


went from mediocre medium pacer at first class level, to leading a test team attack, and had got his top speed up to mid 140's, his fastest delivery of a match, pending on he speed of the pitch, could be 148kmph.

went from medium pacer, to a fastman. with the body of a front rower in rugby, from a tim henman.

NOT NORMAL.

that said, all the Aus bowlers and the batsmen are on the gear too. compare the test captains forehead to five years ago. NN

Yes the Ryan Harris example is a little odd to say the least but whether that can be used to imply things about other bowlers is doubtful. Not saying they don't dope but not sure you can say they do from the Ryan Harris example. Harris has not even been proved to be a doper.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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look at the subcutaneous tissue and skin on the faces bowlers and their prominent skull bones. they have no facial red tissue. and the bones so prominent.

NOT NORMAL compared to a 80s.

Clarkie, nice forehead, grown a cm over the last 36 months. yes, neutralised for changing hairline and haircut.
 
Aug 18, 2012
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blackcat said:
and when johnny beefheart at the local free weight bodybuilding gym, sports the same physique whilst he is an accountant during the day, and 1hr workouts at night, it is pretty clear

NOT NORMAL

Is that a reference to people you know using roids who just go to the gym in their spare time?

I know a few, all extremely insecure.

It seems that whilst steroids are illegal in the UK (where I'm from) there about as hard to get hold of as a protein shake.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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in summer in melbourne, you walk down a high street in the inner city on the weekend, and every 20yo is wearing a t-shirt, massive roid muscle physique, and tatts.

GET

BIG
 
blackcat said:
in summer in melbourne, you walk down a high street in the inner city on the weekend, and every 20yo is wearing a t-shirt, massive roid muscle physique, and tatts.

GET

BIG

Get off Chapel St and down to Smith St. Few more beer guts down there.
 
Aug 18, 2012
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blackcat said:
in summer in melbourne, you walk down a high street in the inner city on the weekend, and every 20yo is wearing a t-shirt, massive roid muscle physique, and tatts.

GET

BIG

Lol, is it really that bad in Aus?

If I wanted to turn into a chimp, then I know of some really dodgy personal trainers who I could befriend who would set me up with some stuff.

The thought that its an illegal drug would be of no concern and I'd be shocked to hear one of these guys went to jail for dealing a class C drug.
 
blackcat said:
look at the subcutaneous tissue and skin on the faces bowlers and their prominent skull bones. they have no facial red tissue. and the bones so prominent.

NOT NORMAL compared to a 80s.

Clarkie, nice forehead, grown a cm over the last 36 months. yes, neutralised for changing hairline and haircut.

The introduction of 20-20, IPL and year round seasons means "drug recovery" use makes a big difference. Seeing the real money is in IPL its worth getting on a program.
 
thehog said:
The introduction of 20-20, IPL and year round seasons means "drug recovery" use makes a big difference. Seeing the real money is in IPL its worth getting on a program.

I am in no way suggesting Maxwell is on the juice, he is an example of going from rags to ritches in the IPL. Just signed for ONE MILLION DOLLARS when he has delivered NOTHING at top level cricket. A complete unknown on the global scene (almost a complete unknown in Australia)
 
Feb 8, 2013
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sittingbison said:
I am in no way suggesting Maxwell is on the juice, he is an example of going from rags to ritches in the IPL. Just signed for ONE MILLION DOLLARS when he has delivered NOTHING at top level cricket. A complete unknown on the global scene (almost a complete unknown in Australia)

Kane Richardson is a good one too, he got $700K, and in his only international match got a golden duck and was then taken out the bowling attack for running on the pitch.

Maxwell at least has (I Think) the fastest 50 in state one day cricket, and i reckon he was signed on the back of getting 50 off about 30 balls against the windies.
 
Sep 22, 2012
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sugarman said:
Kane Richardson is a good one too, he got $700K, and in his only international match got a golden duck and was then taken out the bowling attack for running on the pitch.

Maxwell at least has (I Think) the fastest 50 in state one day cricket, and i reckon he was signed on the back of getting 50 off about 30 balls against the windies.

And he did not even play in the Sheffield Shield for SA but I think it was because of the running on the pitch problems. He is young and might turn out to be very good but it is a lot of money for such an inexperienced player.
 
sittingbison said:
I am in no way suggesting Maxwell is on the juice, he is an example of going from rags to ritches in the IPL. Just signed for ONE MILLION DOLLARS when he has delivered NOTHING at top level cricket. A complete unknown on the global scene (almost a complete unknown in Australia)

100k investment on a program is smart money.

People thing dopers are stupid. They're very smart people. Good investors. Just don't get caught.
 
Mrs John Murphy said:
Nope, thinking of the same roid fueled bloke. He didn't bowl 40 overs as often as I thought but he did on a few occasions and he went over 30 and 35 plenty of times

4 x over 40
11 x over 35
31 x over 30

By my calculations that about 13% of his innings bowled. He was obviously not going to bowl 40 overs when doing the flat track bully thing against Bangladesh, England etc

What we don't have or I can't find is the length of spells, or distribution of overs between bowlers.

Given how all the talk was about the superior 'fitness' of the team was how they came to dominate, its perhaps worth looking at those teams with a more sceptical eye.

Hayden is the poster boy for roided up cricket. McGrath had plenty of roid rage moments as well and my memory is of a bowler who bowled long spells (unusual) and was as effective at the end of a spell as he was at the start (very unusual)

Richard Hadlee - 24.35 overs per innings, 34x innings 30+ (23%)
Courtney Walsh - 20.67 overs per innings, 44x innings 30+ (18%)
Shaun Pollock - 20.09 overs per innings, 32x innings 30+ (16%)
Malcolm Marshall - 19.41 overs per innings, 15x innings 30+ (10%)
Wasim Akram - 20.84 overs per innings, 33x innings 30+ (21%)
Curtly Ambrose - 20.58 overs per innings, 25x innings 30+ (14%)
DK Lillee - 23.32 overs per innings, 24x innings 30+ (18%)
 
May 3, 2010
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Ferminal said:
Richard Hadlee - 24.35 overs per innings, 34x innings 30+ (23%)
Courtney Walsh - 20.67 overs per innings, 44x innings 30+ (18%)
Shaun Pollock - 20.09 overs per innings, 32x innings 30+ (16%)
Malcolm Marshall - 19.41 overs per innings, 15x innings 30+ (10%)
Wasim Akram - 20.84 overs per innings, 33x innings 30+ (21%)
Curtly Ambrose - 20.58 overs per innings, 25x innings 30+ (14%)
DK Lillee - 23.32 overs per innings, 24x innings 30+ (18%)

And your point is what? Bowlers in weak attacks end up carrying the workload. McGrath was playing in a loaded attack for most of his career.

Walsh - most of his heavy innings come later in his career after the likes of Marshall, Bishop, and later Ambrose retired. He was bowling with Mervyn Dillon - and he was run into the ground - and guess what - he was less effective. He was less effective at the end of long spells. Same with Wasim.

Wasim bowled in some mixed attacks - the years with Waqar there was a strong attack. In other years he was carrying the workload in some poor attacks.

Putting Hadlee up there undermines your case further. Hadlee was for the whole of his career the only bowler that New Zealand had. So it was obvious that his workload would be massive.

Pollock - SA cricket is as dirty as SA rugby.

Marshall - bowling in a similarly loaded 4 man attack - bowled less overs per innings and went over 30 less often.
 
Sep 22, 2012
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Ferminal said:
Richard Hadlee - 24.35 overs per innings, 34x innings 30+ (23%)
Courtney Walsh - 20.67 overs per innings, 44x innings 30+ (18%)
Shaun Pollock - 20.09 overs per innings, 32x innings 30+ (16%)
Malcolm Marshall - 19.41 overs per innings, 15x innings 30+ (10%)
Wasim Akram - 20.84 overs per innings, 33x innings 30+ (21%)
Curtly Ambrose - 20.58 overs per innings, 25x innings 30+ (14%)
DK Lillee - 23.32 overs per innings, 24x innings 30+ (18%)

Chaminda Vaas probably has quite a high average
 
Jul 24, 2009
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It's a load of garbage. Julia Gillard is just trying to cause some publicity to distract papers away from the government in an election year. They done an investigation and found that all the front-row forwards have been taking growth hormones and peptides. Whoopdedooo, big shock.
 
Mrs John Murphy said:
And your point is what? Bowlers in weak attacks end up carrying the workload. McGrath was playing in a loaded attack for most of his career.

Walsh - most of his heavy innings come later in his career after the likes of Marshall, Bishop, and later Ambrose retired. He was bowling with Mervyn Dillon - and he was run into the ground - and guess what - he was less effective. He was less effective at the end of long spells. Same with Wasim.

Wasim bowled in some mixed attacks - the years with Waqar there was a strong attack. In other years he was carrying the workload in some poor attacks.

Putting Hadlee up there undermines your case further. Hadlee was for the whole of his career the only bowler that New Zealand had. So it was obvious that his workload would be massive.

Pollock - SA cricket is as dirty as SA rugby.

Marshall - bowling in a similarly loaded 4 man attack - bowled less overs per innings and went over 30 less often.

My point is I find it very hard to believe McGrath is some sort of outlier, it's certainly not shown in the statistics compared with other great fast bowlers.