Teams & Riders Bahrain

[JosefK]

Wout Poels--like a Phoenix from the ashes. Miracles raining down everywhere! TDF will be a hoot!

 

[Danskebjerge]

You need to make a distinction: Are we talking doping overall in cycling, or are we talking sudden successes that don't seem to correspond to a particular rider's normal capabilities. Padun's wins definitely belong to the latter - which doesn't mean that Ineos and other teams are clean.

 

[Frankschleck]

I don't understand this suscpiscion. It's not like Konrad is an extreme climber and to beat him by 1:30 is manageable. Furthermore Padun was always talented and it's not like it's Jonas Gregard coming out of no where. Padun has had extremely strong rides before. Furthermore, Bahrain have been dominated by other teams so to assume that they are doping, would proablaby mean all the other teams are dooping as well. So don't get the Bahrain hate.

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't understand this suscpiscion. It's not like Konrad is an extreme climber and to beat him by 1:30 is manageable. Furthermore Padun was always talented and it's not like it's Jonas Gregard coming out of no where. Padun has had extremely strong rides before. Furthermore, Bahrain have been dominated by other teams so to assume that they are doping, would proablaby mean all the other teams are dooping as well. So don't get the Bahrain hate.

That is the whole point, what are they doing?
Did you think that JV was clean last year at the Tour? Did you see his faces when Pogacar bested them? the question is what are they doing that they can start having these outstanding performances despite the other teams doping!

 

[luckyboy]

Ok how about this. No one knew Mark is so energetic and funny before these interviews because no one from the media, afaik, had ever talked to him, one of the strongest guys from the Italian under 23 races in the last five years. So it's even more like OMG THIS GUY CAME OUT OF NOWEHERE (of course his results show he was strong from Giro del Trentino stage win and on), here's an outsider you can point fingers at and make fun of. Haha stupid peasants, must be cheating if I never read about them in CYCLING BICYCLE NEWS SITE. Theres's an inherent bias that shows in the opinions about Lutsenko and Padun. Maybe not the most important issue, I agree, but I noticed also just because I think it sucks that cycling is getting much less international than it used to be.

Everybody knows that Lutsenko is good though. We've seen him do well at big races before. What we have literally never ever seen is him finish in the top 5 of any WorldTour time trial.
Nobody is biased against him because he's from eastern Europe. It's because his only WT TT top 10 was in the Vuelta seven years ago and he finished 8th lol..

Caruso is Italian and the super-domestique beat every team leader in the Giro but one. You'd expect a top 10 but a jump in performance to second overall at the age of 33. yeah..

Padun is still young but this was several levels above what he showed before even if he did have some good results. And then he said he lost 10lbs in a single training camp.

 

[Bolder]

It's suspicious when all these guys come good at the same time on Bahrain.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I don't understand this suscpiscion. It's not like Konrad is an extreme climber and to beat him by 1:30 is manageable. Furthermore Padun was always talented and it's not like it's Jonas Gregard coming out of no where. Padun has had extremely strong rides before. Furthermore, Bahrain have been dominated by other teams so to assume that they are doping, would probaby mean all the other teams are dooping as well. So don't get the Bahrain hate.

It is not that Bahrain was not doping before, or that others are clean.

It is just obvious that Bahrain have found a program that really worked in the last 10 months that clicked with their riders. And because of their riders all in the form of their lives at similar points in time, they make it a bit obvious.

I mean caruso was implicated in doping in his u23 days, poels was a monster at sky, bilbao was flying at astana etc. People do different things to differing extents at different points in their careers.

It is like when Jumbo becomes dominant in 2019, when astana was dominant in 2015, tinkoff in 2014 etc. They just got a great program this year.

When all riders on a team are flying and the team manager is implicated in doping scandals, we know what's going on. Doesn't mean Ineos or Astana are clean or whatever. We are just attracted to novelty.

give my regards to andy

 

[Frankschleck]

That is the whole point, what are they doing?
Did you think that JV was clean last year at the Tour? Did you see his faces when Pogacar bested them? the question is what are they doing that they can start having these outstanding performances despite the other teams doping!

Well then you have to ask the same about Pogacar, Van Aert, Roglic, and so on. How can they have their outstanding preformance when other teams are doping? The only rider from Bahrain who really has ridden way over his normal level is Padun. Therefore all the Bahrain hate would still be unnesarcy.

 

[zlev11]

honestly, that's a great response from Erzen. Padun is not even close to as ridiculous as Froome, Porte and Thomas were years ago when they suddenly became great climbers. it was pretty out of nowhere but the guy was winning big mountain stages at the Tour of the Alps when he was only 21, and he rode a very good Pais Vasco that year as well, I remember seeing him in a lot of select groups on climbs and breakaways. then I believe he had some injuries and/or health problems, but he was a very promising rider, even if I didn't expect him to ever climb like that, there's been a lot worse things in the past 10 years for sure.

Lutsenko climbing and TT'ing like he did last week was much more eye opening to me

 

[Escarabajo]

Well then you have to ask the same about Pogacar, Van Aert, Roglic, and so on. How can they have their outstanding preformance when other teams are doping? The only rider from Bahrain who really has ridden way over his normal level is Padun. Therefore all the Bahrain hate would still be unnesarcy.

I don't agree. I am having doubts about Caruso as well. His performance was above his level if you asked me. And some people have come here to defend Haig and his normal progression, Ok but he is know looking like top-top. I'll give him a pass just because Dauphine was too short. What about Sony boy. The problem is that they all come from the same team. Why do you think they had the headlines in Cyclingnews? do you think the other coaches are not at least asking the same questions?
I think Padun screwed up. He over did it. Same like Mayo. All it took was a phone call and Mayo was done. Here will be different because nobody considers Padun a risk. But I am sure the alarm bells are making noise everywhere about Bahrain.

 

[Fantastico]

honestly, that's a great response from Erzen. Padun is not even close to as ridiculous as Froome, Porte and Thomas were years ago when they suddenly became great climbers. it was pretty out of nowhere but the guy was winning big mountain stages at the Tour of the Alps when he was only 21, and he rode a very good Pais Vasco that year as well, I remember seeing him in a lot of select groups on climbs and breakaways. then I believe he had some injuries and/or health problems, but he was a very promising rider, even if I didn't expect him to ever climb like that, there's been a lot worse things in the past 10 years for sure.

Lutsenko climbing and TT'ing like he did last week was much more eye opening to me

No, he wasn't. He won a stage in Innsbruck, which was hard, but by far no big mountain stage.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The main thing has got to be how he follows it up. After all, there were people running through the U23 records to show how Aleksandr Foliforov winning the Giro MTT shouldn't be automatically treated as a red flag because of his impressive espoir showings. I know, I was one of them.

 

[zlev11]

No, he wasn't. He won a stage in Innsbruck, which was hard, but by far no big mountain stage.

ok, fine, but it was an impressive win for a 21 year old, and he was 12th overall in the entire race. that's a huge result.

 

[solo80k]

Bahrain really screw it up. They could gamble during the TdF because no one would follow Padun on the first MTF (see Carapaz during his Giro). He could easily get 2 mins on any rival and let them bleed later in the race.

Now everyone will be watching them closely.

 

[SafeBet]

Well then you have to ask the same about Pogacar, Van Aert, Roglic, and so on. How can they have their outstanding preformance when other teams are doping? The only rider from Bahrain who really has ridden way over his normal level is Padun. Therefore all the Bahrain hate would still be unnesarcy.

Lol what? Caruso podiums the Giro, beating proven GT riders like Yates, Carthy, Bardet, etc and he's not above his normal level?
I know that the widespread narrative has Caruso riding his whole career as a dom for other riders but that's really not the case. He had a ton of opportunities to ride GTs for himself in his prime years. He always was a fringe top10 rider, at best.

And you don't have to ask the same about Pog, Rog, WVA etc. Because you know the answer. They're doping.

 

[topt]

What a bunch of *** from Erzen. You have to be overconfident to attack in two consecutive days and from so far. The guy has no credibility whatsoever given his Aderlass connection.

Basically what is he is saying it's they are using something but it's not forbidden yet. Same excuse others used before " We're clean because we're not caught and we play by the rules" . Probably the same thing Pog used in TDF which gives monstrous recovery and lack of fatigue. Both Pog and Padun looked quite fresh even after mind-blowing performances.
I fear for that last ITT in TdF we will see again some big surprises...

so, how does this work than; only Pog and Padun have acces to this "new stuff"

 

[topt]

Lol what? Caruso podiums the Giro, beating proven GT riders like Yates, Carthy, Bardet, etc and he's not above his normal level?
I know that the widespread narrative has Caruso riding his whole career as a dom for other riders but that's really not the case. He had a ton of opportunities to ride GTs for himself in his prime years. He always was a fringe top10 rider, at best.

And you don't have to ask the same about Pog, Rog, WVA etc. Because you know the answer. They're doping.

hm, so that means Bahrain just started doping like a month ago to catch up

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

There's more to doping than going to see Dr. Ferrari. Most of the art lies in concealing your power level and this is where Bahrain's program has gone way off the rails. The French call this rien à branler they are insulting people not for being on dope but for not caring to hide it.

 

[Cassirer]

so, how does this work than; only Pog and Padun have acces to this "new stuff"

Maybe not access, maybe more like daredevil-attitude, more willing to risk getting caught, and maybe even disregard of silent agreements to keep it somewhat believable (maybe a tad conspirative...). Pog and Paduns performances were out of line, and the explanation of them turning the juice up in whatever way seems to me more likely than "logical next step because always talented", "lost the fat", etc.

 

[Frankschleck]

Lol what? Caruso podiums the Giro, beating proven GT riders like Yates, Carthy, Bardet, etc and he's not above his normal level?
I know that the widespread narrative has Caruso riding his whole career as a dom for other riders but that's really not the case. He had a ton of opportunities to ride GTs for himself in his prime years. He always was a fringe top10 rider, at best.

And you don't have to ask the same about Pog, Rog, WVA etc. Because you know the answer. They're doping.

***. Yates couldn't out climb Ameldia in this Giro. Caruso has had better results in the youth ranks than Bardet. Does that mean Bardet came out of nowhere in 2014 above his normal level. Caruso didn't have to climb way above his normal level for this position in the Giro, it wasn't that great oppenents.

Agree with the last point.

 

[Frankschleck]

hm, so that means Bahrain just started doping like a month ago to catch up

Haha exactly my point.

 

[Frankschleck]

I don't agree. I am having doubts about Caruso as well. His performance was above his level if you asked me. And some people have come here to defend Haig and his normal progression, Ok but he is know looking like top-top. I'll give him a pass just because Dauphine was too short. What about Sony boy. The problem is that they all come from the same team. Why do you think they had the headlines in Cyclingnews? do you think the other coaches are not at least asking the same questions?
I think Padun screwed up. He over did it. Same like Mayo. All it took was a phone call and Mayo was done. Here will be different because nobody considers Padun a risk. But I am sure the alarm bells are making noise everywhere about Bahrain.

Well with this argument, then Pogacar overdid it. Van Aert overdid it. Fuglsang overdid it. Everyone overdid it.

 

[topt]

Maybe not access, maybe more like daredevil-attitude, more willing to risk getting caught, and maybe even disregard of silent agreements to keep it somewhat believable (maybe a tad conspirative...). Pog and Paduns performances were out of line, and the explanation of them turning the juice up in whatever way seems to me more likely than "logical next step because always talented", "lost the fat", etc.

so, is Pog on this new stuff always or just on that TT

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Pogacar was a lab experiment for whole of TDF with his times in the mountains. He lost 90 seconds in crosswinds dont forget. Only on Col de la Loze was he a bit weaker than Primo

 

[Cassirer]

so, is Pog on this new stuff always or just on that TT

Well no idea, but tt looked way more fueled, wouldnt you say?
Also no idea if it is new stuff,of course.