Baloise Belgium Tour 2022 (June 15-19)

[kingjr]

What you call brilliant is dirty. Lampaert should get a punishment, unfortunate to see people encouraging dangerous racing on this forum.

Sure, punish him, I don't mind. Still enjoyed watching that.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Moral Winner of Belgium Tour

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Interviewer clearly doesn't believe Schmid's deflections for a second.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

It would need to be a lengthy enough suspension to make it not worth a team-mates while to interfere like that. But then that would probably be a ban that would be overturnable on appeal, as it would be disproportionate to the offence (a bit of shoulder, hands on handlebars throughout)

Maybe we just need to conclude that sprint bonuses encourage dirty riding, and a golden km encourages it threefold.

Even two weeks would suffice in this case if applied swiftly as that would cost him the NCs and the Tour, but I agree that it wouldn't be in line with the precedent at all. And yes, the golden kilometre is a terrible idea.

 

[Bolder]

Schmid didn’t do anything, it would be BS to relegate Schmid.

Then throw the whole team out. That was totally unnecessary and poor sportsmanship.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Still no GC result published

 

[MrTea1976]

It's a team sport - DQ the team.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Rewatching the golden kilometre:

• First sprint is obviously fine
• Second sprint Lampaert not only elbows Wellens but also deviates miles from his line before that. Well over the line on two counts.
• Third sprint Wellens simply lets himself get boxed in and then starts elbowing Lampaert himself, understandable he's angry but QS didn't do anything that didn't follow the rules that time.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Then throw the whole team out. That was totally unnecessary and poor sportsmanship.

Throwing the whole team out for the actions of one rider is legally indefensible, sets a terrible precedent (how do you determine when one rider should be thrown out and when it should be the whole team?) and inherently punishes riders who had nothing to do with the whole situation.

 

[F_Cance]

Lampaert deserves to be kicked out for that. The team is known for being the dirtiest in the sport and today was no exception

 

[Bolder]

Throwing the whole team out for the actions of one rider is legally indefensible, sets a terrible precedent (how do you determine when one rider should be thrown out and when it should be the whole team?) and inherently punishes riders who had nothing to do with the whole situation.

But sends a clear message.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

It was a very solid win by Jakobsen - He'll definitely win a stage at the TDF ?

As for Bennett there is probably a fair case for not bringing him and giving Vlasov more resources.

 

[Bonimenier]

But sends a clear message.

Giving Lampaert the death penalty also would send a message. Doesn't mean it's good though.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

But sends a clear message.

It doesn't, because it's impossible to draw the line between throwing a rider out and throwing the whole team out.

It would also immediately be overturned in a lawsuit because it isn't in line with UCI rules in any way, so the only message it would send is reaffirmation of the UCI's incompetence.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

But sends a clear message.

A cynical message that is unwarranted.

 

[Faserr]

As for Bennett there is probably a fair case for not bringing him and giving Vlasov more resources.

“The team did a great final today and I want to congratulate them for that. The lead-out for Sam had been almost perfect, but unfortunately we didn’t get the reward. There is not a lot more to say, it was a fair sprint, a very good lead-out from us and in the end the fastest guy won.” – Torsten Schmidt, sports director

I think at the moment they really have to think what to do. They didn't take Ackermann last year who even had a better sprint then Bennett at the Belgium Tour. Still not really good. He was third at the last stage and second at one stage where he was relegated I think. Bennett is missing a lot at the moment despite having a really good leadout.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It doesn't, because it's impossible to draw the line between throwing a rider out and throwing the whole team out.

It would also immediately be overturned in a lawsuit because it isn't in line with UCI rules in any way, so the only message it would send is reaffirmation of the UCI's incompetence.

That a team can get away with such blatant cynicism and not face any kind of punishment is a reaffirmation of the UCI's incompetence.

That they've somehow manoeuvred themselves - despite so many tinkerings with sprint rules over recent years - into a position where they can't actually produce any meaningful action against such blatant - and let's not forget dangerous (maybe less so here, but if you can get away with it in an intermediate, then you can get away with it in a bunch gallop at higher speeds) - cynicism is yet further reaffirmation of the UCI's incompetence.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

That a team can get away with such blatant cynicism and not face any kind of punishment is a reaffirmation of the UCI's incompetence.

That they've somehow manoeuvred themselves - despite so many tinkerings with sprint rules over recent years - into a position where they can't actually produce any meaningful action against such blatant - and let's not forget dangerous (maybe less so here, but if you can get away with it in an intermediate, then you can get away with it in a bunch gallop at higher speeds) - cynicism is yet further reaffirmation of the UCI's incompetence.

How do you create a legally sound basis for punishing an entire team for one rider breaking the rules?

Agree that Lampaert should be DSQd. Also agree that a DSQ on the final day should result in a short ban so that it's actually meaningful. But sanctioning the team as a whole is practically impossible. And they have the easy way out in this case anyway because DSQing Lampaert removes him from the golden kilometre results...

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

“The team did a great final today and I want to congratulate them for that. The lead-out for Sam had been almost perfect, but unfortunately we didn’t get the reward. There is not a lot more to say, it was a fair sprint, a very good lead-out from us and in the end the fastest guy won.” – Torsten Schmidt, sports director

I think at the moment they really have to think what to do. They didn't take Ackermann last year who even had a better sprint then Bennett at the Belgium Tour. Still not really good. He was third at the last stage and second at one stage where he was relegated I think. Bennett is missing a lot at the moment despite having a really good leadout.

They have invested so much in Bennett bringing in three riders of his choice. I guess Bennett would have expected to have at least two of those at his disposal in the Tour but given how well Bora have shown in stage races this season I would expect they'd be thinking of giving Vlasov more support and maybe sending Bennett to the Vuelta.

 

[Samamba]

QS riders being QS riders, nothing new here. Their boss is Patrick Lefevere and they have been put on a pedestal for decades now by the Belgian media and "fans", what do people expect. They will get away with it every single time.

 

[Samamba]

Schmid didn’t do anything, it would be BS to relegate Schmid.

Yep and that's how certain teams keep getting away with this. Use an irrelevant rider to hinder a rival so that your leader can win. It always works. You can DQ him, give him/the team a fine, take away UCI points but it all doesn't matter for bigger teams like QS so they will just keep doing it.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I can't imagine anything will happen to redress the injustice. I hope that QuickStep riders and management will be publicly challenged at every opportunity to make a statement on whether they believe that they gained the GC win honourably.

Cycling fans should have the capacity to turn a race win into a PR defeat for them. Hit them hard on all social media.

They were not hesitant to criticise others for riding differently in the past (most obviously Groenewegen/Jakobsen in Poland, and although there is a great difference in degree, there is not much difference in type).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

How do you create a legally sound basis for punishing an entire team for one rider breaking the rules?

Agree that Lampaert should be DSQd. Also agree that a DSQ on the final day should result in a short ban so that it's actually meaningful. But sanctioning the team as a whole is practically impossible. And they have the easy way out in this case anyway because DSQing Lampaert removes him from the golden kilometre results...

It is extremely tough, I agree. That was part of why you had the debate around the Renshaw DQ back in 2010, because he was acting with complete impunity in the leadout and doing a variety of dangerous and cynical tricks because it didn't matter if he got relegated as long as Cavendish did nothing wrong, but he pushed his luck too far and got bounced from the race. That only worked because it was in the middle of the race and so it meant they'd have to go several days without him. On a final day, there's simply no deterrent whatsoever. Any fine they reasonably give him will be countered by the divvying up of the money that comes from the won intermediates and the GC victory his antics confirmed.

I don't know if they could look at more conventional team sports here, because the actual offence here isn't bad, but the cynicism behind it is the problem. Could this be an equivalent to the 'professional foul' in football? Since Lampaert is not jostling for the purpose of winning a sprint, he is jostling for the purpose of making sure a specific opponent cannot have a fair fight. Perhaps it can be something that engenders a timeout (say a 7-day ban or similar) for deliberate unsportsmanlike conduct adversely affecting the outcome of a race? Or fine the team all of its winnings from that race, so both the GC and stage victory earnings, thus disincentivising riders from such acts because it will hit not just them personally but all their teammates too?

The other thing would be to take the line that happens in rugby. From my understanding, when there is foul play, in deciding whether a 'penalty try' (similar to an 'awarded goal' in ice hockey, where they say that the score would have been made inevitably if the foul play did not occur) is to be given, they essentially treat the game as 'what would have happened if the player acting illegally was not there at all'. The problem with that is that because the offence was in the leadout, it's impossible to say with any degree of certainty whether Wellens would have bested Schmid in the sprints or that Schmid wouldn't have gained back enough time regardless. I mean, it's more than likely Wellens wins that GC if Lampaert is not there at all - but it's not certain and that's why I don't think you could use this approach.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Mauro Schmid should be disqualified. Lefefre such a hypocrite

 

[Spine Concept]

The concern of DQ’ing a whole team for the action of one is where the line will be drawn and who determines that line using which metrics. It could get really, really messy. Imagine Pogacar and the whole UAE team getting DQ’d in a crucial stage in the Tour because of the stupid action of one after having done nothing wrong himself other than put in the blood, sweat and tears in order to be at the top of his game.

Humans are emotional beings and when under immense pressure for personal or professional reasons could “snap” and do something stupid or out of character in a brief moment of being overwhelmed. This is especially the case in sports. Just look at football. I can’t imagine a whole team getting a red card for the reckless action of one. It’s just not right nor is it fair. Same for baseball or basketball and every other sport surely, where a single player can be ejected from a game for a bad offense but never the whole team. They have to come up with something else.