Basso suggests Sky doping? Likens them to Armstrong/USPS

[Don't be late Pedro]

But I thought Basso couldn't be trusted because he only half confessed?

But now he's cool again?

Make up your mind.

I am just putting in the full quote for context. I did not comment on it one way or the other.

You just change the story to fit the Sky is not doping narrative.
Have it anyway you like. It obvious you'll just make things up to fit your side of the story.

What have I made up? I have posted my opinions on much but please show me something where I have pointed to it as fact but have made it up. I will then do the same for you if you want?

It's cool with me. Sky are clean. I won't burst your bubble. But at least be honest with yourself.

I have said on many posts there is much to be suspect about Sky. However, when people post opinions or opinions in the shape of facts then I will query them. That is what this board is about after all.

I seem to be able to do that with the majority of posters in a civil fashion.

 

[thehog]

I am just putting in the full quote for context. I did not comment on it one way or the other.


What have I made up? I have posted my opinions on much but please show me something where I have pointed to it as fact but have made it up. I will then do the same for you if you want?



I have said on many posts there is much to be suspect about Sky. However, when people post opinions or opinions in the shape of facts then I will query them. That is what this board is about after all.

I seem to be able to do that with the majority of posters in a civil fashion.

Go to sleep Pedro. You're up to your knees in your own story.

In future; less about me and more substance on Sky.

I might take you seriously then.

Good night.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Go to sleep Pedro. You're up to your knees in your own story.

In future; less about me and more substance on Sky.

I might take you seriously then.

Good night.

Ok, but my offer still stands about showing me stuff I have made up and me reciprocating the favour.

And, why would I go to sleep? Its NYE and not even 5pm in Sydney.

Happy New Year.

 

[Joachim]

And again, from the link that thehog took his quotes and on which he is basing this thread. The bits he wont quote..

“I don’t judge Sky for just what they did this spring,” Basso told VeloNews. “For me, what they did at the Vuelta was incredible. Wiggins pulled off a miracle: crashed at the Tour, broke his collarbone and went strongly there. Only a champion can do that. You understand? They showed that they can handle three weeks, they have the ability to manage a race. Then, don’t forget, there are still 53 kilometers [of time trialing] to race here!”

“If he [Wiggins] goes as they have been, where Richie Porte is pulling and you are on the wheel pushing 420 watts, then explain to me, where are you going to go?

“They’ve done well to bring their captain and vice captain in their best condition. They are doing their work to make sure that those two are protected, nether too fast nor too slow. Like I said, they’re riders with big balls.”

So, Basso is saying directly that Wiggins did what he did because Wiggins is a champion, which is the polar opposite of a cheat.

It's amazing that thehog can try and spin this into Basso hinting that Sky are doping, but then thehog's ability to see only what he wants to see is a bit of a phenomenon in itself.

 

[coinneach]

And again, from the link that thehog took his quotes and on which he is basing this thread. The bits he wont quote..


So, Basso is saying directly that Wiggins did what he did because Wiggins is a champion.

It's amazing that thehog can try and spin this into Basso hinting that Sky are doping, but then thehog's ability to see only what he wants to see is a bit of a phenomenon in itself.

Thank you for that, I was wondering what all the fuss was about, and now I know...nicely put.
Happy new year to one and all!

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

“I don’t judge Sky for just what they did this spring,”

Only the real hardcore Sky - fanboys could be able to misread this quote of Basso.

The rest knows enough.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The difference is that Landis (and Hamilton) admitted to everything unlike Basso. Big difference.

Landis only admitted to everything once his entire life and career had fallen apart to the point where we were afraid he'd wind up another tragic figure found alone in a motel room.

Landis denied, denied and denied whilst attempting to come back, but was clearly blacklisted and unwanted, and it was only after he finally gave up on the final avenues of a return that he confessed. If Landis had been able to deny based on not having tested positive, like Ivan could, and had been able to return to a top level team, then maybe he would never have come clean.

It's hard to judge one against the other because the circumstances of their comeback affect their responses so extremely. Landis tested positive in July 2006, and didn't come clean until May 2011. That's nearly three years of attempted comebacks being thwarted at every turn, and guys who he knew stuff about treading on his toes. Who knows, if Floyd hadn't had information on Armstrong maybe his coming-out party would have been treated with the same rolled eyes that di Luca's admissions, coming after 18 months of claiming to be the victim of a conspiracy, were. But because Armstrong didn't think that the toes he trod on might be connected to a foot that would later kick him in the ***, Floyd was able to get everything off his chest eventually and have a receptive audience. Floyd doesn't have to worry about what the current péloton will do to him like Basso might (hear Millar's stories about the pace going up in the bunch when they find out it's him in the break, or Sella saying he had to go in the break early in his comeback cos all he'd get from a day in the bunch was a jersey covered in spit), because he has given up on any aspirations to be part of it.

 

[thehog]

Basso on CyclingNews today;

Asked to make a prediction for the best rider of 2013, Basso picked Alberto Contador for stage races and teammate Peter Sagan for the classic.

Obvious he doesn't think much of Wiggins.

 

[Joachim]

Obvious he doesn't think much of Wiggins.

He gives no allusion that that is the case. He says only that Contador is likely to win GTs. Contador wasn't there last year. Maybe you didn't notice that.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Basso in 'picks most successful GT rider of his generation as likely most successful GT rider of the year' shock. In other news, some bears have just s*** in some woods.

 

[sublimit]

Only the real hardcore Sky - fanboys could be able to misread this quote of Basso.

The rest knows enough.

The Irony of your Name lol. You sound like a Lemond fanboy

 

[will10]

And again, from the link that thehog took his quotes and on which he is basing this thread. The bits he wont quote..


So, Basso is saying directly that Wiggins did what he did because Wiggins is a champion, which is the polar opposite of a cheat.

It's amazing that thehog can try and spin this into Basso hinting that Sky are doping, but then thehog's ability to see only what he wants to see is a bit of a phenomenon in itself.

You have got to be kidding me.

"what they did at the Vuelta was incredible"

"Wiggins pulled off a miracle"

"Richie Porte is pulling and you are on the wheel pushing 420 watts, then explain to me, where are you going to go?"

"they’re riders with big balls"

And you think thehog is the only one seeing what he wants to see? Interesting that Basso singles out Porte, not Froome or Rogers - who did considerably more work (and damage) throughout the Tour. Let's remind ourselves of previous Richie Porte climbing performances - the 2010 Giro, which all the Sky apologists point to as "see, he always had talent, top 10 in the Giro".

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17390
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17391
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17395
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17396

Yeah, it seems legit that the guy losing 3-4 minutes on every mountain stage would suddenly be a top 8 climber at the Tour.

These are Porte's best climbing performances before joining Sky. He couldn't get over a fricking bridge riding for Alberto last season.

 

[movingtarget]

Basso on CyclingNews today;



Obvious he doesn't think much of Wiggins.

Basso is talking the talk but I would be surprised to see him on the podium of any grand tours ever again.

 

[Alphabet]

So, Basso is saying directly that Wiggins did what he did because Wiggins is a champion, which is the polar opposite of a cheat.

Not necessarily. I'm sure Basso regards himself, Contador, Armstrong and others as champions.

 

[thehog]

Basso is talking the talk but I would be surprised to see him on the podium of any grand tours ever again.

Yeppa. Top 5 at absolute best these days. Top 10 realistically.

The sport has moved on to about 2007 levels. Basso can't take those sort of risks again.

 

[Joachim]

Not necessarily. I'm sure Basso regards himself, Contador, Armstrong and others as champions.

Whilst I think you are probably correct, that runs contrary to the way in which the quote was attempted to be used by thehog.

He is attempting to infer that Basso is disgruntled by Wiggins, and Sky's achievements because he suspects they are cheating. The implication being that Basso is clean, otherwise what grounds for complaint would he have?

You have just included him in a list of convicted, and banned, dopers.

 

[thehog]

Seeing that Basso's word is not worthy due to his half confession TeeJay had a few words on Sky;

"VN: From your perspective, just how strong was Sky during the Tour?

TvG: I have never seen anyone be able to control a race like that. The pace they were setting on the front was unbelievable. And they never panicked. You could throw everything at them. Even if it was a dangerous guy, like Nibali, they would be like, ‘let them go, we stay in our rhythm, and we’ll bring them back.’ And they always did. Some people said it was a boring Tour. You’ve got to hand it to them, the fact that they were able to make it boring like that, that they were so strong. It was not that Nibali didn’t want to attack. It’s not that Cadel didn’t want to attack. They just couldn’t. You cannot go over the top of 450 watts they set on the climb. It was not possible.

VN: What role do power meters play at that moment of the race? Is everyone just racing off their power meters once they’re on the big climbs, knowing that they can push a power threshold for a certain distance, and measure their tactics off that?

TvG: No, people do not race off their power meters. People know their bodies. If I am at my limit, I am breathing hard, my heart rate is through the roof, I am struggling to stay on the wheel, why would you attack? That would be the stupidest thing. You just try to stay where you are. That’s how it was. They had everyone on the ropes to the point where there was nowhere to go. You either stayed on the wheel, or you even drop off the wheel and try to limit your losses. That’s what everyone was doing. It came to a point when even Nibali, who was third, had to drop off of Sky’s pace and Wiggins and Froome just rode away."

 

[thehog]

More;

VN: There was quite a polemic between Froome and Wiggins. Did you see Froome as stronger than Wiggins?

TvG: It was weird. There were a couple of times when it looked like Froome was in trouble. I remember on the stage to La Toussuire, he was dropped, and Wiggins was pulling on his own to get Nibali back. And then all of a sudden, Froome came up again, started setting pace and then dropped Wiggins. I was like, ‘weren’t you just getting dropped?’ I think Froome can go really hard, but then I think he needs to recover. It was interesting to watch. I don’t know if he was playing poker a bit. There were a few times when it looked like Froome was in difficulty and then he was able to come back and drop everyone. It was pretty impressive.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...ur-i-took-advantage-of-the-opportunity_248044

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The Irony of your Name lol. You sound like a Lemond fanboy

I seem to have touched a sensitive point for you? My apologies, didnt mean to trigger your patriottism.

Yawn.

 

[Joachim]

TvG: It was weird. There were a couple of times when it looked like Froome was in trouble. I remember on the stage to La Toussuire, he was dropped, and Wiggins was pulling on his own to get Nibali back. And then all of a sudden, Froome came up again, started setting pace and then dropped Wiggins. I was like, ‘weren’t you just getting dropped?’ I think Froome can go really hard, but then I think he needs to recover. It was interesting to watch. I don’t know if he was playing poker a bit. There were a few times when it looked like Froome was in difficulty and then he was able to come back and drop everyone. It was pretty impressive.

Let's try bolding this bit and see how it looks now.

So, Sky trained to have a group of their team ride at threshold, and stay there and watch the challengers having to repeatedly attack and then blow.

Unlucky for them that they didn't have enough decent riders on their team. Reminds me of when Evans failed to win the 09 TdF because he had zero support from his team, and it wasn't because they couldn't.. it was because they wouldn't. Same reason why TJ didn't want to wait for him after the carpet tack incident.

Team. Interesting word, that.

Anyway, sorry for puncturing your little fantasy world. You can go back to it now if you want.

 

[Froome19]

These are Porte's best climbing performances before joining Sky. He couldn't get over a fricking bridge riding for Alberto last season.

There were reasons for Porte's inability in 2011 and I hyped him up a lot at the beginning of 2012 and explained those reasons at the time.

 

[sniper]

Seeing that Basso's word is not worthy due to his half confession TeeJay had a few words on Sky;

"VN: From your perspective, just how strong was Sky during the Tour?

TvG: I have never seen anyone be able to control a race like that. The pace they were setting on the front was unbelievable. And they never panicked. You could throw everything at them. Even if it was a dangerous guy, like Nibali, they would be like, ‘let them go, we stay in our rhythm, and we’ll bring them back.’ And they always did. Some people said it was a boring Tour. You’ve got to hand it to them, the fact that they were able to make it boring like that, that they were so strong. It was not that Nibali didn’t want to attack. It’s not that Cadel didn’t want to attack. They just couldn’t. You cannot go over the top of 450 watts they set on the climb. It was not possible.

VN: What role do power meters play at that moment of the race? Is everyone just racing off their power meters once they’re on the big climbs, knowing that they can push a power threshold for a certain distance, and measure their tactics off that?

TvG: No, people do not race off their power meters. People know their bodies. If I am at my limit, I am breathing hard, my heart rate is through the roof, I am struggling to stay on the wheel, why would you attack? That would be the stupidest thing. You just try to stay where you are. That’s how it was. They had everyone on the ropes to the point where there was nowhere to go. You either stayed on the wheel, or you even drop off the wheel and try to limit your losses. That’s what everyone was doing. It came to a point when even Nibali, who was third, had to drop off of Sky’s pace and Wiggins and Froome just rode away."

it's having the yellow jersey which gives the whole team wings.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I agree with you Joachim about why Evans didn't win, it was clearly obvious his team didn't support him, for whatever reason(s).

 

[staubsauger]

Basso is a junkie
His sister is a dealer
His 2006 Giro win was a ****ing freak show

He should just shut up ......

 

[Ferminal]

You have got to be kidding me.

"what they did at the Vuelta was incredible"

"Wiggins pulled off a miracle"

"Richie Porte is pulling and you are on the wheel pushing 420 watts, then explain to me, where are you going to go?"

"they’re riders with big balls"

And you think thehog is the only one seeing what he wants to see? Interesting that Basso singles out Porte, not Froome or Rogers - who did considerably more work (and damage) throughout the Tour. Let's remind ourselves of previous Richie Porte climbing performances - the 2010 Giro, which all the Sky apologists point to as "see, he always had talent, top 10 in the Giro".

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17390
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17391
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17395
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17396

Yeah, it seems legit that the guy losing 3-4 minutes on every mountain stage would suddenly be a top 8 climber at the Tour.

These are Porte's best climbing performances before joining Sky. He couldn't get over a fricking bridge riding for Alberto last season.

His best climbing performance was in San Sebastian. Either that or Tasmania...