Basso suggests Sky doping? Likens them to Armstrong/USPS

[Alpe d'Huez]

Basso...has he even owned up to his doping yet or is he still sticking to the "I was only planning to do it" crap?

Some days after his "I was only planning" comment he apologized for that answer and said he behaved like an ass. Is that a confession? Not really I suppose, but probably as close as you're going to get from someone who wants to keep racing.

As to today's comments, I applaud him for it. Someone had to say it. And not just us prophets/jackals in the Clinic.

 

[Turner29]

+2

This is the OP's construction of this extract. It doesn't seem to be an accusation to me.

Take out the word "Champion" and it is a less subtle accusation.

 

[Benotti69]

I dont think Basso was speaking to cycling fans who support SkyPostal.

He was talking to the omerta. He was talking to UCI. He was talking to ASO. He was talking to everyone who has omerta knowledge, including the 12 apostles in the clinic and anyone who truly understands cycling.

It may be seen as a warning, that Sky have upped the game and now everyone has to try and follow like what happened after '99.

 

[thehog]

+2

This is the OP's construction of this extract. It doesn't seem to be an accusation to me.

Who said anything about an accusation? I didnt. I asked a question.

Basso observation is rather astute. We should listen to him. Because he's on the inside and seen it all.

Sometimes think you guys create the division so you can claim hater.

I think his comments are noteworthy. It's my feeling we'll here similar comments after the Tour from other Pros.

Surely Basso's not looking for a book deal or is bitter?

 

[DirtyWorks]

It's been asked elsewhere, what is the latest and best program? It looks like someone found a better harder to detect dope. Sorry for those of you who feel they are clean, I think that's fantasy. We can agree to disagree.

This is worth repeating:

1. The bio-passport system is an elaborate system whose purpose is to protect riders from killing themselves. That's it. It is working exactly as designed. There is ample room for Sky to have a team-wide program. The phrase 'never tested positive' has come to mean more for a good reason. Only idiots get an AAF.

2. Doping as a part of an athlete's preparation has been compared to a symphony. Lots and lots of details, lots of things to test for the best outcome, and even then every rider is different. All the parts have to work together. So, it's most likely it's not that Sky's on something different as they found what works best for each rider. This would explain the very light schedule and trips to Tenerife very well.

I agree with others, Basso's chosen his words carefully. He's no saint and he's not going to break Omerta, but he's still calling what Sky has done a clear case of team-wide doping.

 

[Escarabajo]

That's only accusatory if you take it out of context. He's praising Sky throughout that interview. The part about Porte is a reference to how well Sky protects Wiggans, and, most importantly:

If he meant that as a doping reference he would not mention Indurain.

Because Indurain was clean????

 

[burning]

Even though I dislike Basso, I have to admire this, he's simply stating frankly what he's thinking, which a lot of riders are not doing at the moment

 

[Franklin]

Any moment now:

Masterracer, Xleigh, Straydog and ianfra accuse Basso and Evans for libel by calling the sky performance incredible

 

[Poursuivant]

Right, so Basso calls Wiggins a champion and praises Sky, and this is supposed to be him calling them dopers. Jesus wept. Too many tin hats in here...

 

[Benotti69]

Any moment now:

Masterracer, Xleigh, Straydog and ianfra accuse Basso and Evans for libel by calling the sky performance incredible

Straydog has been banned so that wont be any moment now.

 

[Benotti69]

I hate to say it but it appears to me that Sky has found a better 'program' and the rest are playing catch up. Basso is aware of it and since he is involved with the same shenanigans what can he do but congratulate them for building a better mousetrap.

It's been asked elsewhere, what is the latest and best program? It looks like someone found a better harder to detect dope. Sorry for those of you who feel they are clean, I think that's fantasy. We can agree to disagree.

Why do you think it is 'a better harder to detect dope'?

Sky could be replicating USPS. They knew in advance when they were being tested, last in the case of races and the UCI made positives disappear.

It would be easy based on previous evidence to buy a blood machine for the UCI and not have to worry a dickie. No doubt Brailsford and Wiggins wont be boasting about it just yet.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

When Basso talks like this, then you know a dark era is coming...

*Crawls down into his cave*

 

[mastersracer]

Because Indurain was clean????

no, because Indurain has been given a pass. He is a legend who is still loved. The media do not raise him name when the doping accusations of the EPO era are raised, in part because Indurain was always humble and retired to live a quiet life. You can throw Armstrong under the bus for obvious reasons these days, and European fans never liked him in the first place. How many riders raise Indurain's name re doping?

 

[thehog]

When Basso talks like this, then you know a dark era is coming...

*Crawls down into his cave*

I would agree. He's seen it all before and knows it well.

Ivan is a very politie gentleman. Never speaks ill of anyone. Very well respected in the peloton.

When he speaks people listen.

His observations from inside the Pro peloton are startling and a reminder to days gone by. He's also very respectful of the winning team and the yellow jersey. That's the way it should be.

I hope people listen.

 

[mastersracer]

I would agree. He's seen it all before and knows it well.

Ivan is a very politie gentleman. Never speaks ill of anyone. Very well respected in the peloton.

When he speaks people listen.

His observations from inside the Pro peloton are startling and a reminder to days gone by. He's also very respectful of the winning team and the yellow jersey. That's the way it should be.

I hope people listen.

who is only 30 seconds behind Froome? By your logic, Basso would also be pointing the finger at his own teammate (who admitted he lost 18 of those seconds yesterday due to a calf strain).

 

[hrotha]

who is only 30 seconds behind Froome? By your logic, Basso would also be pointing the finger at his own teammate (who admitted he lost 18 of those seconds yesterday due to a calf strain).

Only if you assume Froome and Nibali are naturally at the same level.

And this isn't about clean vs doped. It's most likely about doped according to the etiquette vs doping unfairly (and yes, I think these notions exist within a peloton of dopers).

 

[thehog]

who is only 30 seconds behind Froome? By your logic, Basso would also be pointing the finger at his own teammate (who admitted he lost 18 of those seconds yesterday due to a calf strain).

Don't worry about my logic. Take it up with Ivan. He won the Giro doped and clean. He's knows what goes on in the peloton.

Surely you're not suggesting Basso doesn't know what he's talking about? Really? Basso was in the race I'd think he'd knows what he's talking about.

In addition he provided some of those much needed stats you keep gong on about it.

Do you think Basso has got it wrong? Do you think he shouldn't laugh at the speed of Porte's climbing?

Sad day when the Father of the peloton fingers one of the young guys. Porte should know better.

 

[la.margna]

“Look. It’s the same discussion as always, it’s like watching the Tour when Lance [Armstrong] or [Miguel] Indurain raced. You could try to attack, get ahead, but then what are you going to do? Just to have a laugh?” Basso said, sitting on the steps of the team bus.

“If he [Wiggins] goes as they have been, where Richie Porte is pulling and you are on the wheel pushing 420 watts, then explain to me, where are you going to go?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/basso-its-useless-to-try-to-stop-sky_230769

- Basso has seen it all from the inside. He's know what they're up to.

I can't see anything where he suggest Sky doping or cheating in any way. He's just telling how it is, when a strong team has total control and domination. Btw, he's saying exactly the same (just a few W difference) like Wiggo described the Sky strategy in his interviews. Not the slightest doping hint, sorry.

 

[Wigwan]

who is only 30 seconds behind Froome? By your logic, Basso would also be pointing the finger at his own teammate (who admitted he lost 18 of those seconds yesterday due to a calf strain).

Without Froome's puncture in Seraing or Boulognes-sur-Mer (I don't remember), Nibali would be 2 minutes behind Froome..

 

[hrotha]

I can't see anything where he suggest Sky doping or cheating in any way. He's just telling how it is, when a strong team has total control and domination. Btw, he's saying exactly the same (just a few W difference) like Wiggo described the Sky strategy in his interviews. Not the slightest doping hint, sorry.

The lines. Read between them.

It's not the first time we hear comments like these after literally unbelievable performances.

 

[Maxiton]

When Basso talks like this, then you know a dark era is coming...

*Crawls down into his cave*

Yep, here it comes. Next year's Tour will be professional wrestling on wheels, unless something changes. (Que Travis Tygart.)

Only if you assume Froome and Nibali are naturally at the same level.

And this isn't about clean vs doped. It's most likely about doped according to the etiquette vs doping unfairly (and yes, I think these notions exist within a peloton of dopers).

I agree. Riders expect a little bit of doping, just as we expect it. What they don't expect or appreciate is not having any shot at all of winning, when they know they should have a shot.

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

I agree. Riders expect a little bit of doping, just as we expect it. What they don't expect or appreciate is not having any shot at all of winning, when they know they should have a shot.

Exactly.
There's a "fair" playing field where everyone's cheating a tiny bit "because let's face it - everyone does so I'd be stupid not to" and this where it's "holy smokes is it '99 all over again? Gotta warn the people that Y2K is much ado about nothing"

 

[Poursuivant]

Exactly.
There's a "fair" playing field where everyone's cheating a tiny bit "because let's face it - everyone does so I'd be stupid not to" and this where it's "holy smokes is it '99 all over again? Gotta warn the people that Y2K is much ado about nothing"

Lol. You got all that from Basso's interview?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Yep, here it comes. Next year's Tour will be professional wrestling on wheels, unless something changes. (Que Travis Tygart.)

I don't see anything that would inspire such change. No one is talking about the failed institution that is the UCI and their suppressed positives. That USADA letter left so much UCI blood in the water and yet there's not a single peep about its problems. It's Entertainment Wrestling.

I agree. Riders expect a little bit of doping, just as we expect it. What they don't expect or appreciate is not having any shot at all of winning, when they know they should have a shot.

What you and others don't like is the game is gone. An entertainment equivalent is the "willing suspension of disbelief" has been broken. Pro cyclists may as well be in front of a bluescreen because it's that scripted.

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

Lol. You got all that from Basso's interview?

No, I got that from the quote I... quoted, seeing as it was a direct response.
Like this post, really.

Whereas the rider quotes are just basically what I, like many others here, assume is what he's saying. Because that's what this thread's about: Basso supposedly stating a subjectively big (and maybe "unfair") performance difference between what his team members are able to achieve and what one specific other team is able to do. Because that's what we do here in this forum - we speculate on rider quotes and try to grasp for a "Thar be drugs in this, yarr" meaning.