BMC 2012 - Dream Team

[El Pistolero]

BMC may have invested serious money on stars, but the void left on the domestiques/helpers department is enormous, therefore the damage is such to the point that is going to split the team when personal priorities/preferences from the Leaders begin to appear as the season goes on.

They bought Steve Cummings, Tejay van Gardenen, Klaas Lodewyck and Marco Pinotti. That's 4 extra domestiques they bought. George Hincapie, Marcus Burghardt, Mattias Frank, Santaromita, Santambrogio and Alessandro Ballan have already proven thay they're ok with doing domestique work.

Taylor Phinney has a man crush on Philippe Gilbert, so he won't mind working for him either. They have plenty of domestiques...

 

[greenedge]

They bought Steve Cummings, Tejay van Gardenen, Klaas Lodewyck and Marco Pinotti. That's 4 extra domestiques they bought. George Hincapie, Marcus Burghardt, Mattias Frank, Santaromita, Santambrogio and Alessandro Ballan have already proven thay they're ok with doing domestique work.

Taylor Phinney has a man crush on Philippe Gilbert, so he won't mind working for him either. They have plenty of domestiques...

And Quinziato, Morabito, Kohler and Blythe will help Hushovd and learn a bit from him.

Cummings beat Contador on a Algarve stage, TJVG was coming 2nd at P-N, then had to work for Martin, Lodewyck will develop and hopefully become like a Jelle Vanendert ( in terms of working for Gilbert ) in a few years and Pinotti has finished top 10 in the Giro and is a great Time Triallist.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Well done GreenEdge & El Pisterlero. Clearly there is a lot of quality domestiques for the team leaders at BMC.

 

[Parrulo]

Well done GreenEdge & El Pisterlero. Clearly there is a lot of quality domestiques for the team leaders at BMC.

for the classics there is no doubt about it that bmc has great domestiques but for the big mountain cadel still lacks a superdom imo he has great support for the flat but . . . TJVG is heavily overrated and cummings isn't anything special, he will be alone again as soon as the likes of szmyd, navarro and horner hit the front.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

And so it has begun...

 

[auscyclefan94]

for the classics there is no doubt about it that bmc has great domestiques but for the big mountain cadel still lacks a superdom imo he has great support for the flat but . . . TJVG is heavily overrated and cummings isn't anything special, he will be alone again as soon as the likes of szmyd, navarro and horner hit the front.

Morabito was able to stick with those guys and set the pace in the pyrenees when many other teams weren't present. TJVG is still developing and if he continues such progress he certainly will be up the front. Also, Matthias Frank. Do not underestimate BAMF! Do you remember his peformances in the Tour de Suisse especially on stages 3,6 & 7?

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

lol @ el pickle becoming a bmc fanboy since his idol moved.
at least acf has some help tho.

--

BMC look better each year, no doubt, but it is still a case of too many chiefs, not enough indians (last year it was just a few chiefs and a bunch of duds, so the improvement is there).

I will continue to hate on them tho. Possibly more so.

 

[El Pistolero]

lol @ el pickle becoming a bmc fanboy since his idol moved.
at least acf has some help tho.

--

BMC look better each year, no doubt, but it is still a case of too many chiefs, not enough indians (last year it was just a few chiefs and a bunch of duds, so the improvement is there).

I will continue to hate on them tho. Possibly more so.

I don't care about BMC, but to say they have no domestiques is ridiculous. It's like saying Rabobus are tactical geniuses. What's Rabobus by the way? A bunch of duds all thrown in a yellow basket?

Chiefs at BMC:

Philippe Gilbert: Milan-San Remo, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Ardennes, Tour de France(wants to win the stage in Liège, domestique for CE after that)
Thor Hushovd: Milan-San Remo, Paris-Roubaix, Tour de France
Cadel Evans: Tirreno-Adriatico, Ardennes(as domestique for Phil), Tour de Romandie, Criterium du Dauphiné, Tour de France

Indians:

Alessandro Ballan
George Hincapie
Tejay van Gardenen
Manuel Quinziniato
Marco Pinotti
Greg van Avermaet
Marcus Burghardt
Steve Cummings

 

[Parrulo]

Morabito was able to stick with those guys and set the pace in the pyrenees when many other teams weren't present. TJVG is still developing and if he continues such progress he certainly will be up the front. Also, Matthias Frank. Do not underestimate BAMF! Do you remember his peformances in the Tour de Suisse especially on stages 3,6 & 7?

are you seriously comparing morabito with the likes of szmyd, navarro and niemec?

and yes i am fully aware of mathias frank performances in swiss they were indeed impressive but we still don't know how well he will perform in a GT when the big guys are in top shape. TJVG may still be developing but being outclimbed by rui costa isn't exactly the best sign of a potential great climber and his recovery still is far from good enough to perform well over 3 years.

but the major problem with all of this that you are ignoring a bit is that evans isn't exactly young so its not like he has the time to wait a couple years till his domestiques are fully developed, he needs them next year already and i highly doubt that both those guys will go from hot young prospects to top climbing domestiques in 1 year till next years tour. thats why i think its an error from bmc not to take pinotti to the tour and it was an error not to hire an already established high level mountain domestique( i know those are rare and hard to hire) to make sure evans would have some1 with him almost all the time.

and thats the only issue i see with the entire bmc squad, the lack of a super dom, other then that they have an amazing support for the cobbles, the hills and the flat with leaders to get the results in all those terrains. actually i voted for bmc as next year's most successful squad on a poll on cyclingtorrents

 

[El Pistolero]

are you seriously comparing morabito with the likes of szmyd, navarro and niemec?

and yes i am fully aware of mathias frank performances in swiss they were indeed impressive but we still don't know how well he will perform in a GT when the big guys are in top shape. TJVG may still be developing but being outclimbed by rui costa isn't exactly the best sign of a potential great climber and his recovery still is far from good enough to perform well over 3 years.

but the major problem with all of this that you are ignoring a bit is that evans isn't exactly young so its not like he has the time to wait a couple years till his domestiques are fully developed, he needs them next year already and i highly doubt that both those guys will go from hot young prospects to top climbing domestiques in 1 year till next years tour. thats why i think its an error from bmc not to take pinotti to the tour and it was an error not to hire an already established high level mountain domestique( i know those are rare and hard to hire) to make sure evans would have some1 with him almost all the time.

Navarro, Jesus Hernandez and that other Spanish dude Contador always takes suck ***. Contador sadly has the weakest team of all Tour favorites both in the climbs and on the flat.

What did Navarro do this year? Nothing...

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

like i said they are improving but still not enough, Lot of the guys you mention have own ambitions aswell. You can pretend it is enough if you want. I make no disagreement that they are constantly heading in the right direction.

For future reference learn to read maybe.

ps; what does this have to do with rabo? Get a grip chump.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Navarro, Jesus Hernandez and that other Spanish dude Contador always takes suck ***. Contador sadly has the weakest team of all Tour favorites both in the climbs as on the flat.

What did Navarro do this year? Nothing...

That other Spanish dude Contador always takes is Benjamin Noval and he most definitely does not suck ***.

He isn't a climbing domestique, he's a rouleur, a big engine, and so we don't tend to see him at the business end of things, for the same reason we don't see most rouleur domestiques. Only a few of those, like Stuey O'Grady and Txente García, are really visible guys, and not being in their league is hardly shameful.

 

[El Pistolero]

like i said they are improving but still not enough, Lot of the guys you mention have own ambitions aswell. You can pretend it is enough if you want. I make no disagreement that they are constantly heading in the right direction.

For future reference learn to read maybe.

ps; what does this have to do with rabo? Get a grip chump.

They'll still be domestiques mostly hence we call them indians Is Bram Tankink not an indian? Because he has his own ambitions as well if you read some of his recent interviews(cobbled classics).

What can't I criticize a team you love that really is lacking in the chief department?

Sure, they're lacking a bit in the climbing department, but the Tour isn't very mountainous this year. You're basically shooting them just for that. They have great domestiques at all the classics, that's important as well. CE will also be surrounded by good team-mates at the hilly and flat stages of the Tour. How good is Rabo's track record of protecting Gesink at Grand Tours?

 

[El Pistolero]

That other Spanish dude Contador always takes is Benjamin Noval and he most definitely does not suck ***.

He isn't a climbing domestique, he's a rouleur, a big engine, and so we don't tend to see him at the business end of things, for the same reason we don't see most rouleur domestiques. Only a few of those, like Stuey O'Grady and Txente García, are really visible guys, and not being in their league is hardly shameful.

Yeah, they surely protected Contador well in the non-climbing stages at the Tour

At the Giro it was mostly Matteo Tossato protecting Contador on the non-climbing stages.

Everyone could see Contador was isolated most of the time on every single stage. Contador's Spanish team mates certainly lacked this year. Last year, Navarro was amazing, but we barely saw him this year. This year Matteo Tossato was by far his best team-mate.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah, they surely protected Contador well in the non-climbing stages at the Tour

At the Giro it was mostly Matteo Tossato protecting Contador on the non-climbing stages.

Everyone could see Contador was isolated most of the time on every single stage. Contador's Spanish team mates certainly lacked this year. Last year, Navarro was amazing, but we barely saw him this year. This year Matteo Tossato was by far his best team-mate.

A bad race does not make a bad domestique. He's been good at his job for a long time, but he didn't have a good Tour. It happens. Evans had a bad race at the 2009 Tour, did it make him a bad rider? Of course not. If Contador continues to be isolated in major races all season next year then we can talk about Noval having lost it, but until then he's a good domestique who didn't have a good time at the Tour.

 

[El Pistolero]

A bad race does not make a bad domestique. He's been good at his job for a long time, but he didn't have a good Tour. It happens. Evans had a bad race at the 2009 Tour, did it make him a bad rider? Of course not. If Contador continues to be isolated in major races all season next year then we can talk about Noval having lost it, but until then he's a good domestique who didn't have a good time at the Tour.

Ah, but I'm merely calling them out for their bad 2011. Navarro was great in 2010, but failed in 2011. The pessimist in me isn't very confident in the likes of Navarro for next year.

The thing is, he had a weak team this year and Riis has done nothing to make it stronger for next year.

Another Tour favorite, Leipheimer, who does he have in the mountains? The only ones with a strong team for the Tour are Radioshack-Nissan-Trek.

Froome, I believe, will do the Vuelta next year, so he won't be there at the Tour(correct me if I'm wrong). And since Cavendish will be on Wiggins' team a lot of team support will go to him instead.

Besides, who cares about mountain domestiques! Contador had none this Giro and he won! Evans had none this Tour and he won! According to you the Tour is a one week race without mountains anyway. So why would they even bother buying mountain domestiques?

 

[La Pandera]

I don't care about BMC, but to say they have no domestiques is ridiculous. It's like saying Rabobus are tactical geniuses. What's Rabobus by the way? A bunch of duds all thrown in a yellow basket?

Chiefs at BMC:

Philippe Gilbert: Milan-San Remo, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Ardennes, Tour de France(wants to win the stage in Liège, domestique for CE after that)
Thor Hushovd: Milan-San Remo, Paris-Roubaix, Tour de France
Cadel Evans: Tirreno-Adriatico, Ardennes(as domestique for Phil), Tour de Romandie, Criterium du Dauphiné, Tour de France

Indians:

Alessandro Ballan
George Hincapie
Tejay van Gardenen
Manuel Quinziniato
Marco Pinotti
Greg van Avermaet
Marcus Burghardt
Steve Cummings

If we agree to define "Indians" as riders with no ambitions whatsoever of personal glory, you'd have to scratch Ballan, Van Gardenen, Pinotti, GVA,and Burghart from that list. I can't see any of these riders sacrificing for 3 weeks without the chance to pursue glory for themselves. This team won't be all for Evans. It looks to be a bit of a chaotic tug of war for chasing stage wins and personal glory while squeezing in a bit of attention to Evans. He deserves better but maybe just maybe they realize that it's not wise to put all their eggs in one basket.

 

[El Pistolero]

If we agree to define "Indians" as riders with no ambitions whatsoever of personal glory, you'd have to scratch Ballan, Van Gardenen, Pinotti, GVA,and Burghart from that list. I can't see any of these riders sacrificing for 3 weeks without the chance to pursue glory for themselves. This team won't be all for Evans. It looks to be a bit of a chaotic tug of war for chasing stage wins and personal glory while squeezing in a bit of attention to Evans. He deserves better but maybe just maybe they realize that it's not wise to put all their eggs in one basket.

Good luck finding those. Not everyone is like Smyzd. Shouldn't you direct your "too many chiefs, not enough Indians" criticism to Radioshack then?

Ps: BMC sacrificed them self this year completely for Evans. GVA won't even make it in the Tour team anyway.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

They'll still be domestiques mostly hence we call them indians Is Bram Tankink not an indian? Because he has his own ambitions as well if you read some of his recent interviews(cobbled classics).

What can't I criticize a team you love that really is lacking in the chief department?

Sure, they're lacking a bit in the climbing department, but the Tour isn't very mountainous this year. You're basically shooting them just for that. They have great domestiques at all the classics, that's important as well. CE will also be surrounded by good team-mates at the hilly and flat stages of the Tour. How good is Rabo's track record of protecting Gesink at Grand Tours?

my lord your just incapable of sticking to a point.

I could care less if you badmouth (i dont love rabo btw, screw them) rabobank lol, I just find it hilarious in a thread about BMC and a discussion regarding BMC you feel the need to bring up a non-relevent factor, this is not about rabo bank, they have no relevance to what I am suggesting about BMC. But unsurprising you are too thick and stupid to read between the lines. Rabobank even with a good sqaud always find a way to fail, but this is nothing new. I could bring up other examples of a team having right foundation but things going wrong, but I'd rathr not follow in your non relevant footsteps.

Anyway regarding BMC the season is much more then just classics. There 3 gts, many stage races year around, Thus they have not enough indians. AGain I say they are heading in the right direction constantly but they are still unbalanced, but whatever. Maybe I should translate this in crayon and pictures, so your thinking level might understand.

 

[El Pistolero]

my lord your just incapable of sticking to a point.

I could care less if you badmouth (i dont love rabo btw, screw them) rabobank lol, I just find it hilarious in a thread about BMC and a discussion regarding BMC you feel the need to bring up a non-relevent factor, this is not about rabo bank, they have no relevance to what I am suggesting about BMC. But unsurprising you are too thick and stupid to read between the lines. Rabobank even with a good sqaud always find a way to fail, but this is nothing new. I could bring up other examples of a team having right foundation but things going wrong, but I'd rathr not follow in your non relevant footsteps.

Anyway regarding BMC the season is much more then just classics. There 3 gts, many stage races year around, Thus they have not enough indians. AGain I say they are heading in the right direction constantly but they are still unbalanced, but whatever. Maybe I should translate this in crayon and pictures, so your thinking level might understand.

How are they lacking in the stage race department(one week)?

Surely Tejay van Gardenen, Marco Pinotti, Cadel Evans, Philippe Gilbert, Alessandro Ballan, Mathias Frank, Thor Hushovd, Klaas Lodewyck(or anyone else who can ride on the front for a couple of hours) is a super team for a race like Tirreno-Adriatico/Tour de Romandie/Tour de Suisse(make Mathias Frank leader, he's usually pretty good there. Also Burghardt can do some nice things there), Ronde van België(replace the Italians and CE with Burghardt, Quinziato and GVA)?

Sprinter? Check
Puncheur? Check
Climber? Check
Time trial specialist? Check
Domestiques or rouleurs? Check

What more do you want lol? Is that not the definition of balance?

I want actual arguments as to why they're apparantly lacking so much compared to other teams because the "too many chiefs, not enough Indians" argument is often brought up in other threads as well. Yes, they lack one or two super dom in the mountains for a GT. That's pretty much it really. Who should they have signed that was available at that time? Keep in mind Geox didn't fold yet when their team roster was completed. They did the best they could in my opinion by signing Marco Pinotti and Tejay van Gardenen.

If I was DS at BMC I'd put Pinotti in the Tour though.

 

[La Pandera]

How are they lacking in the stage race department(one week)?

Surely Tejay van Gardenen, Marco Pinotti, Cadel Evans, Philippe Gilbert, Alessandro Ballan, Mathias Frank, Thor Hushovd, Klaas Lodewyck(or anyone else who can ride on the front for a couple of hours) is a super team for a race like Tirreno-Adriatico/Tour de Romandie/Tour de Suisse(make Mathias Frank leader, he's usually pretty good there. Also Burghardt can do some nice things there), Ronde van België(replace the Italians and CE with Burghardt, Quinziato and GVA)?

Sprinter? Check
Puncheur? Check
Climber? Check
Time trial specialist? Check
Domestiques or rouleurs? Check

What more do you want lol? Is that not the definition of balance?

I want actual arguments as to why they're apparantly lacking so much compared to other teams because the "too many chiefs, not enough Indians" argument is often brought up in other threads as well. Yes, they lack one or two super dom in the mountains for a GT. That's pretty much it really. Who should they have signed that was available at that time? Keep in mind Geox didn't fold yet when their team roster was completed. They did the best they could in my opinion by signing Marco Pinotti and Tejay van Gardenen.

If I was DS at BMC I'd put Pinotti in the Tour though.

Brajkovic, Kanstantin S(I'll butcher his name if I try to spell it ) the climber from HTC that won the Tour of Georgia, Leipheimer would've been a super domestique and x-factor (this was thinking outside the box!). All have accomplished something in weeklong stage races and 2 have at least made their presence known in a grand tour before to different degrees. All made moves to new teams after the 2011 season, just not BMC.

 

[El Pistolero]

Brajkovic, Kanstantin S(I'll butcher his name if I try to spell it ) the climber from HTC that won the Tour of Georgia, Leipheimer would've been a super domestique and x-factor (this was thinking outside the box!). All have accomplished something in weeklong stage races and 2 have at least made their presence known in a grand tour before to different degrees. All made moves to new teams after the 2011 season, just not BMC.

Leipheimer? But you guys just complained BMC had too many chiefs already!

I'll give you Sivtsof though.

 

[auscyclefan94]

lol @ el pickle becoming a bmc fanboy since his idol moved.
at least acf has some help tho.

BMC look better each year, no doubt, but it is still a case of too many chiefs, not enough indians (last year it was just a few chiefs and a bunch of duds, so the improvement is there).

I will continue to hate on them tho. Possibly more so.

A bunch of duds? Open your eyes please. Evans will be the leader at the tour. No question about it. Gilbert is going to the tour to help Evans just like Evans will be working for him in the Classics. Ronde van Vlaanderen it will be for Gilbert and Ballan will ultimately be the backup plan who will still get opportunity to win as well. Paris Roubaix is for Thor primarily but I think Ballan will still be a protected rider. Lets break this down.

Paris Roubaix
Hushovd (leader)
Ballan (leader)
Hincapie (super dom)
Burghardt
Schar
Phinney
Quinziato
Lodewyck
Wyss

Ronde van Vlaanderen
Gilbert (leader)
Ballan (leader)
Thor (super dom)
Hincapie (super dom)
Quinziato
Van Avermaet
Schar
Phinney
Burghardt

Tour de France
Evans
Gilbert
Thor
TJVG
Frank
Morabito
Cummings
Burghardt
Hincapie

Evans will be the leader. Gilbert = domestique. Thor = domestique.

No problems!

are you seriously comparing morabito with the likes of szmyd, navarro and niemec?

and yes i am fully aware of mathias frank performances in swiss they were indeed impressive but we still don't know how well he will perform in a GT when the big guys are in top shape. TJVG may still be developing but being outclimbed by rui costa isn't exactly the best sign of a potential great climber and his recovery still is far from good enough to perform well over 3 years.

but the major problem with all of this that you are ignoring a bit is that evans isn't exactly young so its not like he has the time to wait a couple years till his domestiques are fully developed, he needs them next year already and i highly doubt that both those guys will go from hot young prospects to top climbing domestiques in 1 year till next years tour. thats why i think its an error from bmc not to take pinotti to the tour and it was an error not to hire an already established high level mountain domestique( i know those are rare and hard to hire) to make sure evans would have some1 with him almost all the time.

(snip)

No I am not although I personally think that Morabito was a much more useful domestique at the tour this year than Szmyd was. TJVG certainly did get outclimbed by Costa but he shown plenty of other times that he has got the goods. Give him time.

 

[hughmoore]

A bunch of duds? Open your eyes please. Evans will be the leader at the tour. No question about it. Gilbert is going to the tour to help Evans just like Evans will be working for him in the Classics. Ronde van Vlaanderen it will be for Gilbert and Ballan will ultimately be the backup plan who will still get opportunity to win as well. Paris Roubaix is for Thor primarily but I think Ballan will still be a protected rider. Lets break this down.

Paris Roubaix
Hushovd (leader)
Ballan (leader)
Hincapie (super dom)
Burghardt
Schar
Phinney
Quinziato
Lodewyck
Wyss

Ronde van Vlaanderen
Gilbert (leader)
Ballan (leader)
Thor (super dom)
Hincapie (super dom)
Quinziato
Van Avermaet
Schar
Phinney
Burghardt

Tour de France
Evans
Gilbert
Thor
TJVG
Frank
Morabito
Cummings
Burghardt
Hincapie

Evans will be the leader. Gilbert = domestique. Thor = domestique.

No problems!





No I am not although I personally think that Morabito was a much more useful domestique at the tour this year than Szmyd was. TJVG certainly did get outclimbed by Costa but he shown plenty of other times that he has got the goods. Give him time.

Looks pretty dammm good to me, bring it on, should be another fun year.


Hugh

 

[La Pandera]

edit

If you think Gilbert and Hushovd are going to the Tour strictly to ride as domestiques for the focus of your man-crush, well let me say that I'm not surprised. Thus we can anticipate a never ending series of high pitched rants from you when this dream of yours does not come true.