Breaking news: "Armstrong Brushes Aside Contador Taunt"

[bianchigirl]

Contador's Vuelta & Giro victories were guided by Gallopin & Yates - as for his first TdF victory I believe Bruyneel turned up to call the last TT - big whoop, shouting Allez allez from a team car is soooooo demanding.

Bruyneel on Armstrong's return “To win races doesn’t excite me anymore, like I felt during the Vuelta (a España) that Contador won. It was very good, but that spark wasn’t there like before. With Armstrong, it’s there again,”. Bruyneel clearly has no connection with Contador, is 100% Armstrong's ***** and would have done anything to secure that 8th win for his friend. Man management skills zero and 'tactical genius' hugely overstated - he had a team ramped up to untouchable levels through their exclusive deal with a certain preparatore, bought up anybody who looked like presenting credible opposition and presided over an era in cycling with probably the weakest level of competition in history. Only now are we beginning to see a generation emerge who might truly match some of the exploits of the greats of the sport. But it will take for Boss Hog and the stultifying, percentage riding that typified 99-05 to be consigned firmly to the dustbin of history before the sport gets back to anything like its real glory days.

 

[richwagmn]

This is obviosly a matter of differens in opinions.
Fair enough, but I think the tactic Bruynell planned worked very well considering that Astana ended up with two riders on the podium.
The point you state above is not interily true. Contador would still have won the race, although with less distance to Andy Schleck.

Lance is a big ego. Can you imaging what the outcome would have been had JB cut him off?
I don't think that would have been very pretty. JB did manage to avoid a meltdown. to control two opposing egos is not an easy task.

Well, yes. But, if you had Contador, why would you have taken LA back at all? Surely JB must have know the friction was going to be there. He clearly did all he could to assuage LA.

I'm still puzzled by all of this. How many tour victories could JB have had with AC?

 

[bianchigirl]

This is obviosly a matter of differens in opinions.
Fair enough, but I think the tactic Bruynell planned worked very well considering that Astana ended up with two riders on the podium.
The point you state above is not interily true. Contador would still have won the race, although with less distance to Andy Schleck.

Lance is a big ego. Can you imaging what the outcome would have been had JB cut him off?
I don't think that would have been very pretty. JB did manage to avoid a meltdown. to control two opposing egos is not an easy task.

Bruyneel didn't have to control 2 opposing egos - Contador did his job and Bruyneel did everything he could to soothe the one great ego in the team. There was never any question that he would take Contador's side in any team decision.

2 riders on the podium is really not such a great deal - many teams have managed this, have indeed placed 3 and 4 riders in the top 10, and those were in the days when the calibre of opposition had real strength in depth. The TTT skewed the entire race with no strong Pyreneean stages to undo the effect - had there been 3 actual Pyrenneean stages I think we'd have seen Armstrong and Wiggins fall out of the top 10 and struggle to regain their GC positions. Pure speculation of course but Armstrong & Wiggins both benefitted from a terrible parcours and strong TTT results. 2010 has strong mountain stages and no TTT - I'm at a loss as to where Armstrong will be making time on Contador?

 

[thehog]

Stealing 8 riders from Astana does not serve his credibility, but that's beside my point.

More to the point. Stealing 8 eights riders doesn't mean you win the Tour.

 

[Anonymous]

A few quotes from a Richard Moore article in The Guardian UK

Sean Yates:

Yates suggested that the Spaniard, who prevailed in their battle last year and is most people's favourite to do so again this year, has "a lot of Lance-like traits".

It was an observation that might, during his seven-year reign as Tour champion, have riled him, but the new, more mellow Armstrong seemed unruffled, although his response was revealing in its own way. "Perhaps Sean was talking about the fact that he's a strong character," said Armstrong. "Mentally, he's almost unbreakable. There were times in the Tour last summer where you thought he had to be fragile mentally because of things that were [going on] in the race... And people thought: this guy's going to crack. And he never did. He was always tough the next day. He's a very strong young man."

It sounded suspiciously as though a strategy of Armstrong's had been – as it was in his seven Tour wins – to "break" his biggest rival mentally, despite the fact they were on the same team. With that no longer the case, the gloves can perhaps come off.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jan/16/cycling-lance-armstrong-team-sky

 

[Bike Boy]

Contador's Vuelta & Giro victories were guided by Gallopin & Yates - as for his first TdF victory I believe Bruyneel turned up to call the last TT - big whoop, shouting Allez allez from a team car is soooooo demanding.

I was only talking about 2009 but whatever...

The fact that Contador had to ignore Bruyneel's orders to win the race speaks volumes for Contador's instinctive tactical nous - and volumes for Bruyneel's lack of imagination as a DS and lack of skill as a man manager.

Well I disagree. He would still have won the race.

 

[Publicus]

I was only talking about 2009 but whatever...



Well I disagree. He would still have won the race.

I think the point here is that Bruyneel's tactics throughout the race were poor given that he had the strongest rider. This notion of playing multiple cards works well when you have squad with no dominate rider or a collection of equally good riders (see eg Radio Shack), but not when you have the best stage racer in the world. Instead of looking to MAXIMiZE AC's lead, he starts talking about the number of podium positions. So you have a DS instructing another teammate to pace a blown domestique up the mountain, and in the process help other teams close the gap to your "team leader." Or you chastise your "team leader" for trying to get more time because a domestique couldn't follow. Forget the maxim that you take time on your rivals wherever you can. Apparently the new Bruyneel maxim is to take time on your rivals only to the extent it does not harm the podium position of a domestique.

 

[Bike Boy]

Well, yes. But, if you had Contador, why would you have taken LA back at all? Surely JB must have know the friction was going to be there. He clearly did all he could to assuage LA.

I'm still puzzled by all of this. How many tour victories could JB have had with AC?

Thats a fair point but Armstrong wanted to come back and Bruynell proofed to be a loyal friend, thats natural.
however I don't think Bruynell could imaging how the process would develope.
In the beginning nobody even knew whether Armstrong would be able to get fit in time.

 

[Publicus]

Thats a fair point but Armstrong wanted to come back and Bruynell proofed to be a loyal friend, thats natural.
however I don't think Bruynell could imaging how the process would develope.
In the beginning nobody even knew whether Armstrong would be able to get fit in time.

I don't know how Bruyneel couldn't. AC figured it out pretty early. I knew it was one of a few scenarios that could play out. So I have a hard time thinking that Bruyneel was clueless.

 

[Bike Boy]

Apparently the new Bruyneel maxim is to take time on your rivals only to the extent it does not harm the podium position of a domestique.

Well it worked to some extent. why is it wrong? you get two guys on the podium instead of one.

 

[Bike Boy]

I don't know how Bruyneel couldn't. AC figured it out pretty early. I knew it was one of a few scenarios that could play out. So I have a hard time thinking that Bruyneel was clueless.

Agree to some extent. but I for one didn't predict Lance to podium a year ago. That was beyond my expectations.

 

[Publicus]

Well it worked to some extent. why is it wrong? you get two guys on the podium instead of one.

Because first place (winning) is all that mAtters. Unless of course, one is concerned with the fragile ego of one Lance Armstrong. Then you do whatever you can to avoid reality hitting him too hard in the face.

 

[Publicus]

Agree to some extent. but I for one didn't predict Lance to podium a year ago. That was beyond my expectations.

Only because of Bruyneel's dedication did he make podium. I think the fun part is that the parcourse and Bruyneel's concerted effort to protect Lance has created a false sense of him being competitive. I think he really thinks he can beat AC. He got beat by 5+minutes by a guy who wasn't racing him (I fully believe AC could have put another 2 minutes into Lance on Ventoux), what does he think will happen when they are on opposite teams? And please note, except for a split in the peloton, Lance didn't gain a single second on AC. And certainly no time simply because he was stronger.

 

[ravens]

well why on earth did contador have to break away he was in a comfortable position obviously didnt want lance to have any position on the podium

Jeezzuss Aitch......

6 Months later and we are still re-hashing....sheesh...some folks are really stuck on stupid.

 

[Bike Boy]

Because first place (winning) is all that mAtters. Unless of course, one is concerned with the fragile ego of one Lance Armstrong. Then you do whatever you can to avoid reality hitting him too hard in the face.

Well that's a fine balance. I'm not justifying the treatment of Contador, but as I have stated before. If Bruynell had done it the way you all suggest it would have led to a meltdown.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Well that's a fine balance. I'm not justifying the treatment of Contador, but as I have stated before. If Bruynell had done it the way you all suggest it would have led to a meltdown.

Then maybe a meltdown should have been allowed.

 

[Publicus]

Then maybe a meltdown should have been allowed.

The meltdown was only deferred. It is coming...

 

[Bike Boy]

Then maybe a meltdown should have been allowed.

Indeed that would have been very entertaining.

 

[Carboncrank]

I think the point here is that Bruyneel's tactics throughout the race were poor given that he had the strongest rider. This notion of playing multiple cards works well when you have squad with no dominate rider or a collection of equally good riders (see eg Radio Shack), but not when you have the best stage racer in the world. Instead of looking to MAXIMiZE AC's lead, he starts talking about the number of podium positions. So you have a DS instructing another teammate to pace a blown domestique up the mountain, and in the process help other teams close the gap to your "team leader." Or you chastise your "team leader" for trying to get more time because a domestique couldn't follow. Forget the maxim that you take time on your rivals wherever you can. Apparently the new Bruyneel maxim is to take time on your rivals only to the extent it does not harm the podium position of a domestique.

terrible tactics. only first and third.
your criticisms are lame second guesses.
It's not the way I remember the race at all.

 

[Publicus]

terrible tactics. only first and third.
your criticisms are lame second guesses.
It's not the way I remember the race at all.

Then perhaps you should get yourself better informed before attempting to criticize someone who remembers the race quite well.

 

[Carboncrank]

Well, yes. But, if you had Contador, why would you have taken LA back at all? Surely JB must have know the friction was going to be there. He clearly did all he could to assuage LA.

I'm still puzzled by all of this. How many tour victories could JB have had with AC?

Why take Lance back? I'm sorry, that's a really stupid question.
"surely" you don't know that surely JB knew there would be friction.
The way I see it, he "surely" thought that AC was a mature professional which he turned out not to be.

AC is still the obvious favorite in the coming tour but I don't think there's anything certain about him winning considering the conventional wisdom on the importance of team on winning the tour.

Lance clearly has better support around him.

If Lance was the bad guy in all this why didn't any of the riders stay with Alberto? Why do does Lance still command the respect of the vast majority of the best riders in the sport?

 

[buckwheat]

Then perhaps you should get yourself better informed before attempting to criticize someone who remembers the race quite well.

Exactly. It was kind of like the criticism of Contador for dropping Kloden. So if Kloden gets on the podium I guess that would have taken LA's spot because neither one of them was going to knock Andy Schleck off.

Fanboys have trouble seeing things clearly for some reason.

 

[Carboncrank]

Then perhaps you should get yourself better informed before attempting to criticize someone who remembers the race quite well.

No no.. you don't get to claim some superior powers of recall.

I recorded and re watched every stage and read all I could get my hands on including sometimes wading through google translations in the foreign press.

Contador made tactical errors and still won. He was a lousy teammate who's been abandoned by the riders that rode with him.

He's no saint, he's not invulerable, he's not beyond reproach, and neither are you.

 

[manolo]

If I were going to be 39 racing against Contador in the TDF... I would be happy [!]... Lance.. is still in contention, [and] that's not all that bad. I would be happy with placing 3rd in [the Tour]...

I'd be happy, too. The truth is for all the contentiousness and the bickering, I have to believe Armstrong is happy with his life, his family, his health, his business, his Foundation and his overall way of life. I think the Contador thing is an afterthought for him. I honestly think we give it more importance here than he does. Maybe I'm wrong, but... to quote ecoovert again...

I don't know what is going through Lance's mind any more than you do... Lance is a superb athlete in my book. I would say the same about Contador but I can't put Contador at Lance's level until he has won 7 [grand] tours[?]. I look forward to the excitement... these [two] will bring to this year's TDF.

Nice post, ecoovert. : )

 

[manolo]

If Lance was the bad guy in all this why didn't any of the riders stay with Alberto? Why does Lance still command the respect of the vast majority of the best riders in the sport?

Money? His ability to attract sponsors? His ability to rpovide them with job security? Admiration of his toughness? his determination? His business sense? His raw power and ability?