Breathing Inspiration

[straydog]

I am no expert.

I was told years ago when I had a coach etc to exaggerate the exhale at max efforts. Something about pushing out dead air as I think he said

It is a habit ha have to this day but this thread has me thinking about it

good discussion really

In addition the analysis at the time was that I was a "mouth breather" and had to re teach my breathing in through the nose at max effort. Sounds simple enough and it is something I remind myself to this day

The comment about Boardman sticking out his tongue is interesting. Is that inhale or exhale?

This is rapidly turning into a really interesting thread.

The idea for breathing through the nose stems mainly from the fact that the nasal passage produces nitrous oxide, which is a vasodilator. However, the amount produced is fairly insignificant and it fails to take into consideration the fact that we have at all times one dominant nostril, which changes between the two throughout the day, thereby further limiting oxygen intake by that method of breathing alone. Also, for those with exercise induced asthma, mild or otherwise, or allergies, nasal inhalation can be difficult due to mucus build up.

Tapeworm is, in my opinion, correct in his assertion, that increased muscularity and efficiency of the intercostal muscles partly responsible for lung function won't, in and of itself, improve your "speed" on a bike. Witness 100m track sprinters, who often hold their breath for the 10 or so seconds that they perform. Vo2 max, as he states, is determined at a cellular lever. i.e. how efficiently your body transports oxygen to your muscles. However, increasing the efficiency with which your body can take in the original "fuel", in this case oxygen, will be part of the equation. For every inhalation, and accompanying muscle contraction, your heart will work harder, therefore negativley impacting overall efficiency and Vo2. In essence, increasing or maximising lung function definitely helps, just as increasing FT or cycling specific muscularity generally will help.
I would also challenge Tapeworms assertion that "breathing more" will get you past any lung function limiters. Breathing too much will just lead you to hyperventilate.

 

[Trunnions]

Tapeworm:
Q/And generally just because research is old this does not invalidate it, unless methodologies are proven to be wrong or the conclusions./Q

+Both+ methods and conclusions were faulty according to the authors of the more modern papers and reviews linked to in my previous post.

But we do love old bikes, and old dogs, don't we?

 

[Trunnions]

@Straydog:
Well, that's quite a party-trick!
Your nose pumps out Laughing Gas, and you have nostrils squabbling for dominance!

Only kidding

One of the papers I linked to above has some fascinating insights into how the intercostal muscles may well play a vital role in limiting our maximum exercise ability.

It is thought the lactate produced locally in the intercostals may trigger the limiter for the other skeletal muscles. Ergo, training the intercostals specifically, raises the limit for the whole body.

It makes sense too; if you are going to have "sensors", the best ones would be those nearest the most vital regions of a power generating unit. In this case the "intake and exhaust valves".

I agree, It's fun to ruminate on these aspects as we puff and wheeze along trying to maximise our fitness and riding ability.

Btw: Lookout you left nostril is cutting in on your right.

 

[Tapeworm]

I would also challenge Tapeworms assertion that "breathing more" will get you past any lung function limiters. Breathing too much will just lead you to hyperventilate.

You are correct, I was slightly flippant in my comment there. The increase of respiratory rate will increase with exertion. Sometimes a person can hyperventilate when they are at or near VO2max, but this has the opposite effect to that which you may want.

+Both+ methods and conclusions were faulty according to the authors of the more modern papers and reviews linked to in my previous post.

Where is that stated? One paper mentions two studies which had "weak experimental design", but given that criticism was printed in 07 it can't have taken into consideration the later studies done in 08.

oldborn, you get around huh?

 

[Trunnions]

Welcome to the new millennium Mr. Tapeworm! You'll find things have moved on a tad; but tuck into the bunch, keep your head down, and you should stay up to speed.

 

[Trunnions]

Tommy Simpson memorably described what it was like racing against Jacques Anquetil:

"Jacques simply tries harder than anyone I have met. In a time trial you can hear him catching you, you don't have to look round, there is this hoarse sound of breath being drawn in gulps, and then he's past you. Then it's like being in a thunderstorm, with the sweat simply pouring off him as he goes by. And yet there's not a movement wasted, it's all concentrated in his legs, a beautiful motion."

I find this illuminating because when I'm at maximum green (ie. nudging my anaerobic Rubicon) I can barely hear my own breathing. And the elite riders who I've raced against are also generally silent breathers. Therefore, I take it that when I hear a rider heavy-breathing, he's gone anaerobic, and won't last long.

What's your experience?

 

[oldborn]

Well Tapeworm i learned my lesson in "Leg strenght wars", i apologized to Fergie long time ago, Hi Fergie.

On one study, there is one which say us opposite then firts one. Some are olders some are younger, but you can never make person who is working and training on one study make to beleive there is another one study which shows are another story, and maybe better results.
I understand this, coaches will be very unhappy changing strategy every couple of months or years.

So studies are hmmmm, let me tell you one example study about moderate workout (i think on stationary bike) vs. high intensity interval training, on fat loss.

So HIIT group, fat loss was higher then moderate, why? Hmmm, because only one women in this group lost huge kg, and another women in moderate group gain some huge kilos, interesting. Statistically correct, but when we look inside

Trunnions, yes i have similar experience, some of top triathletes whos pass me on bike or running can be prety quiet but not so much that i can not hear them, some of them are prety loud (tired, prep. period, wether etc).
Some of them taking a Yoga breathing classes, they say it helps.

Stay well!

 

[JayKosta]

For me, doing a strong exhale and then a balancing inhale works well.
The exhale removes CO2, and makes room for a complete inhale.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA