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Why would you look for a Pew article when they state in the article that they use Eurostat and these are readily available and up to date? Unless you don't trust Eurostat but you do trust someone who just regurgitates their numbers? Anyone might suspect it was purposeful...
I used the unemployment rate as an example and yes I was not clear and it reads that I made the claim all by myself but.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2016/07/05/3-reasons-brits-voted-for-brexit/#fe1c0c51f9d6
In that Forbes article they also mention that one of the many reason for brexit was the perception of a dysfunctional economic entity at the EU. It even mentions the unemployment disparity.

Brexit vote happened in June of 2016? If you look from around 2012 to 2016 there was more than one that had unemployment above 20%

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Unemployment_rate_2008-2018_(%)_new.png

Yes the current 2019 numbers are looking much better. But that data was not available back in 2016.

It really does seem that you want just accuse someone of something that fits your own predetermined idea.

Hey if you don't want anyone to have a discussion in your echo chamber then just tell me to go away.
 
I used the unemployment rate as an example and yes I was not clear and it reads that I made the claim all by myself but.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2016/07/05/3-reasons-brits-voted-for-brexit/#fe1c0c51f9d6
In that Forbes article they also mention that one of the many reason for brexit was the perception of a dysfunctional economic entity at the EU. It even mentions the unemployment disparity.

Brexit vote happened in June of 2016? If you look from around 2012 to 2016 there was more than one that had unemployment above 20%

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Unemployment_rate_2008-2018_(%)_new.png

Yes the current 2019 numbers are looking much better. But that data was not available back in 2016.

It really does seem that you want just accuse someone of something that fits your own predetermined idea.

Hey if you don't want anyone to have a discussion in your echo chamber then just tell me to go away.
I think you are mixing up posters. I've just questioned why you would use out of date stats when much more up to date states are available. I've not accused you of anything until you started dismissing the agency where the stats came from in the article you posted.

You've now said it's about the 2016 stats but the article you linked to was from 2018. That data also wasn't available back in 2016...
 
It really does seem that you want just accuse someone of something that fits your own predetermined idea.

Hey if you don't want anyone to have a discussion in your echo chamber then just tell me to go away.

Oh boo hoo.

Get caught out misrepresenting statistics and then claim it is the other person's fault

I think we are l open for a discussion...as long as the other party is honest.
 
I think you are mixing up posters. I've just questioned why you would use out of date stats when much more up to date states are available. I've not accused you of anything until you started dismissing the agency where the stats came from in the article you posted.

You've now said it's about the 2016 stats but the article you linked to was from 2018. That data also wasn't available back in 2016...
The original link I provided had just the pew research 2018 but the link I posted after you started more inquisition on was for 2008-2018

Unless I was posting you did not seem to be interested in the subject. Only after my posts did you chime in. I might be just paranoid but it seems I'm being stalked.
 
The original link I provided had just the pew research 2018 but the link I posted after you started more inquisition on was for 2008-2018

Unless I was posting you did not seem to be interested in the subject. Only after my posts did you chime in. I might be just paranoid but it seems I'm being stalked.
Stalked? It’s a forum and you posted misleading information in a thread I’m interested in. I don’t think questioning this is stalking?

So your link was from 2008-2018, which again ignores the most recent data but goes beyond 2016 which you claim is the important point...

I’m sure you can see why people would question your motives.
 
Stalked? It’s a forum and you posted misleading information in a thread I’m interested in. I don’t think questioning this is stalking?

So your link was from 2008-2018, which again ignores the most recent data but goes beyond 2016 which you claim is the important point...

I’m sure you can see why people would question your motives.
I also Stated in a post up-thread that the current unemployment numbers for 3 of the previous highest were this.

"If I look at the current EU site I can see that
Greece 17.0
Spain 13.8
Italy 9.5 "


But someone says that none of southern EU is even near 20% and used Italy at 9.5% - The last time I checked 17.0 is closer to 20 than 9.5

"never underestimate the predictability of stupidity "
"beware of falling prices"
 
They didnt effect the Brexit vote. The Brexit vote came about from at least 25 years of euroscepticism.

Perhaps you meant 'affected'.
yes affected thank you for the help with that.
From what I read one of the factors on brexit was the unemployment disparity which lead to a stagnant economy. That would be part of the scepticism would it not?
I posted a link to an article that mentions it.
 
What you arent grasping about the Brexit vote is that it didnt hinge upon facts or arguments supported by facts.

There are numerous strands to the discontent around the EU, ranging from forcing 'us' to eat straight bananas (or was it bent ones, I cant remember) to talk of an EU superstate with an EU conscripted army, or the imminent joining of Turkey opening the floodgates to 100+ million people swamping Britain.

All of these are lies. Brexit is a Trumpian phenomenon. The lies are told and it is almost as if the recipients of the lies know that they are lies but they dont care, and consume them regardless.

The whole thing revolves around emotion, not logic, and some sort of reactionary desire to return to the glory days of Empire. The British are still wrapped up in the mythology of empire, and Brexit is the moment of reckoning I believe.
 
What you arent grasping about the Brexit vote is that it didnt hinge upon facts or arguments supported by facts.

There are numerous strands to the discontent around the EU, ranging from forcing 'us' to eat straight bananas (or was it bent ones, I cant remember) to talk of an EU superstate with an EU conscripted army, or the imminent joining of Turkey opening the floodgates to 100+ million people swamping Britain.

All of these are lies. Brexit is a Trumpian phenomenon. The lies are told and it is almost as if the recipients of the lies know that they are lies but they dont care, and consume them regardless.

The whole thing revolves around emotion, not logic, and some sort of reactionary desire to return to the glory days of Empire. The British are still wrapped up in the mythology of empire, and Brexit is the moment of reckoning I believe.
Brexit is due to Trump? Or are you trying to say there are similarities?
 
I'm not saying it is due to Trump, I'm saying that not only are there similarities between the extant conditions that permitted Trump's ascendancy and the Leave campaign to take hold, but also that the Leave campaign has evolved into a Trumpian populism, with near identical strategies such as an attempt to pitch the populace against the judiciary, and also against parliament (or Congress in the US). There is the same blatant disregard for probity and veracity. Curiously, the leaders are both beset by sex scandals, which are overlooked by their followers.
 
Anyway, here's my prediction of how it will unfold over coming weeks....

Johnson will resign, either at the hands of a vote of no confidence, or on or near the 31 October after his current offer of a deal is rejected by the EU.

He is planning for this as the deal is clearly never going to be accepted, nor did he ever intend that it would be.He will resign in order to fulfil his promise not to ask for an A50 extension.

A short term caretaker govt. will take power and ask for the A50 extension. Johnson, whilst no longer PM will remain leader of the Tpry party and will try to portray the caretaker govt. as weak traitors who gave in to a bullying EU who rejected his last deal offer because they (and the UK opposition) are trying to thwart the so-called "will of the people".

The thickies, of course, will all unite behind this and we may even get some public disorder, which the Tory govt. is currently trying to incite.

An election will be called and the result will determine the future of the UK as a united nation, but also as a progressive modern nation.

Deep down, I think we are screwed.
 
I am blaming brexit in part on the fact that part of the EU is not really working out for everyone.
Yeah, but I argued that the reason those countries weren't working out isn't due to their membership of the eu/euro (although ofc there's more nuance to it than that, but I'd put say Greece's troubles with the Troika more down to the international orthodoxy (just check out the third member of the troika, the imf) than simply the European institution). Then you said nobody was implying that the fact Italy/Greece/Spain had economic troubles was the EU's fault. Now you go back and say the eu is at fault.

How, exactly, is the eu/euro at fault for high unemployment? Monetary inflexibility, maybe, but for Italy the flexibility had fully run its course by the 1990s and was damaging the economy, a more long term fix was needed. The fact Greece lost some competitiveness, maybe, but it also became much richer after it joined the eu, even if it damaged the country's trading deficit. Spain, well, was saved by the EU/similar projects like the OEEC in many ways. Franco had destroyed it, isolated it and left it twenty years behind the rest of Europe and it has been catching up ever since, and the rest of Europe has been vital in its recovery to become a respectable economy. You've taken some unemployment figures, given no context to them and said: the eu doesn't work for all. Why not?
 
Read the article you linked, it's pretty basic and I'm not convinced it is totally correct. Forbes is firmly in the Washington Post economic-determinism-but-from-the-other-side school of political/historical analysis ("It's the economy, stewpot"), so over-emphasises the economic argument. An economic argument that was very rarely raised on the leave side, it was the remain side which kept hammering home 'project fear'. Don't remember Vote Leave talking about issues in southern Europe or the evils of the ECB much. There was some vague talk of 'holding us down' but it was less economic and more general political/nationalistic. Brexit is more emotional than just numbers.

It's aged pretty badly too, it's quite funny actually seeing how certain it is that Germany won't impose tariffs.
 
I linked the article as a signpost to some of the issues, not because I think it’s wholly correct. In general articles for that site are written for the choir and resume advancement: that is too quickly and superficially to be rigorous and “correct”. I linked at article last week that had a more critical take.

Economics and economies as a whole are as much emotional as they are quantitative. Unless people understand that and think those frames together than politicians and finance peddlers can keep playing them off each other.

It’s impossible, for example, to argue that what Mac B as issues tied to a culture built on a ghost of Empire is somehow separable from the mid 20th century financial cessation of that Empire, how GB imagined itself post WW II (singularly and vis a vis other nations) or how that national imaginary and its economic and political practices were propped on one another.
 
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UK grew rich by subordinating other countries by either brute force or by exploiting internal divisions and rivalries, exploiting the labour force and then using the populace as a market place for goods produced in the UK.

Brexit is about harking back to the richness of that era without understanding or admitting to what enabled it. It's a failure of education as much as anything else, for just as Japanese school history books make little mention of the Rape if Nanking, the children of Brexit educated in the 60s and 70s learnt nothing of the dark side of Britain's past even though the previous generation had spent their youth fighting a series of colonial wars in a vain attempt to suppress the freedom of others.

When Britain launches itself off into splendid isolation it may be finally forced to confront the reality of its past and with it may go the vestigial trappings of empire....the monarchy, the arcane mythology of the armed forces and almost certainly its last colonies, Scotland and Ireland.

The huge irony is that the resurgent myth of Brittania dates back only a few hundred hundred years to the Act of Union in 1707.

Brexit will kill off Britannia once and for all.
 
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I linked the article as a signpost to some of the issues, not because I think it’s wholly correct. In general articles for that site are written for the choir and resume advancement: that is too quickly and superficially to be rigorous and “correct”. I linked at article last week that had a more critical take.
I dont think Brullnux was referring to your link. He's referring to Nevele's Forbes article.
 
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I linked the article as a signpost to some of the issues, not because I think it’s wholly correct. In general articles for that site are written for the choir and resume advancement: that is too quickly and superficially to be rigorous and “correct”. I linked at article last week that had a more critical take.

Economics and economies as a whole are as much emotional as they are quantitative. Unless people understand that and think those frames together than politicians and finance peddlers can keep playing them off each other.

It’s impossible, for example, to argue that what Mac B as issues tied to a culture built on a ghost of Empire is somehow separable from the mid 20th century financial cessation of that Empire, how GB imagined itself post WW II (singularly and vis a vis other nations) or how that national imaginary and its economic and political practices were propped on one another.
Yeah wasn’t your link
 
Why do you assume unemployment wouldnt be higher in Greece if it was outside the EU?
This kind of question is always ignored it seems. The assumption is that because Greece is in the EU and Greece has high unemployment, the EU must be the cause. Likewise with other Southern EU countries (this ignores high unemployment relative to other EU countries in more Northern countries, the North East of France etc.

Let's take the UK unemployment rate as an example. unemployment rates were fairly consistent throughout the 2000's until 2009, just after the global financial crash. It then steadily rose until reaching a high of around 8% in 2011 when the stock markets crashed due to the downgrading of the US credit rating. Since 2011 it was been gradually falling and is now lower than was throughout the early 2000's.

The UK has been a member of the EU throughout this whole period, so it would seem that these rates don't correlate to EU membership but the global market and the capitalist system we exist in. Does that correlation equal causation? Well history and almost all the evidence would tell us yes.

Would it have had less of an effect outside of the EU? That's doubtful. Would countries have recovered quicker? Well the EBA was set took over from the CEBS in 2011 (along with ESMA and EIOPA taking over their respective regulatory duties) in an effort to standardise banking regulation across Europe and this is when unemployment in the UK started to fall. If assumptions are being made about correlation = causation, I think the only assumption that can be made is that the UK benefited from being a member of the EU.
 
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