Brits don't dope?

[Zam_Olyas]

Both him and Il Principe.

And I like them sucking. Allows some refreshing honesty when a former doped to the gills GT winner can say he could barely hang onto Richie Porte in the 2012 Tour when he was towing the peloton up the Cols.

Hindsight is great isn't it? I can look back on the old days, you know 'when cycling was dirty' and appreciate Basso in a different light. If he were like Evans he could have another very serious crack at a GT, but I think the Smiling Assassin is content to just finish out his contract, ride for the fun of it and leave. He's had a very good career.

I was wondering where you came from. I would use a different set of words to describe Italy...but you can call it what you want. Lots of people from my hometown call it a hole. It's not, but doesn't stop them from calling it such.

People from your hometown are right. eye-taly is a mess.

 

[blackcat]

I come from the dirty south but i do believe basso the great is clean now... he has sucked for 3 ****ing years lol

cleanER. with Evans, just a bit of recovery doping, or maintanence of their natural levels in training. perhaps one shot of EPO before a GT.

still, no chance, top 50 in a GT clean.

thing is, a rider, who is clean, may be able to ride, top 20, top 30, but that mediocre result, does not garner an invidual rider his own agency to ride a GT. They must go into a GT with a helper, or domestique role, or breakaway/chancer, leadout, they are not getting the chance just to hide for most stages.

they are Levi "bottle" Leipheimer. Get my bottle beeyitch

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

It's the guys who don't stop winning, your borrowed Brits, who are pulling the flag behind them and bringing in the headlines.

Who do you have in mind? Farah's lived in Britain since he was 8. The rowers and track cyclists who regularly perform are all home grown.

 

[Galic Ho]

People from your hometown are right. eye-taly is a mess.

Oh no no no! I didn't mean they call Italy a hole. There are Italians in my home town and a very well known Italian company runs it's Aussie business from there. No, what I meant is locals often call their place of origin crap. So the people calling a place a hole, were calling their/my hometown a hole.

Italy is awesome BTW!

Now if you want to talk about a real crappy place to come from I raise you Tasmania! Ask Richie Porte. Even the Brits new it was the pits and sent lots of convicts there over the mainland.

 

[Galic Ho]

Well, I have lived in Australia for the last few years and, speaking as a Brit, my experience is quite different to yours.

Weren't some Aussie fans hurling abuse Porte and Rogers because they were riding for Wiggins and 'against' Evans. Now clearly they are just ignorant fans and you get those from all countries (and in all sports) but I wonder if their anger would be as strong if they were riding for a different GC rider? I doubt it.

I'm sure ACF94 and the Evans fan brigade were merely drunk.

Do you actually pay attention to SBS? The only people jeering Porte and Rogers for not helping Evans were the July warriors. The non July warriors who jeered them did so because they ride for Sky and were miles better than they'd ever been.

That clear up your confusion?

 

[The Hitch]

I figured with the way Ryo salivates over Colombians he had to be following them on some Spanish site somewhere. Oh well.

Isn't Hrotha Spanish? His first and last names sure as hell sound Spanish. Then again...you said Portugese. Not exact, but next door. Learn something new everyday.

hrotha is Spanish. Don't know how you know his first and last names though.

of course there are plenty of Spanish speakers, my point was merely that the ones you named were not them.

 

[Galic Ho]

Who do you have in mind? Farah's lived in Britain since he was 8. The rowers and track cyclists who regularly perform are all home grown.

I really don't care. I don't buy English papers. But in an Olympic year when I read a substantial number of articles going on about handing out passports...yeah, I'd say it's an issue.

England can try and win the World Cup. Heck I read an article from Gary Neville yesterday urging the footballers to take over the headlines from these very people. Will they? IMO England missed it's chance. Maybe in 2018. Maybe if the younger players develop. But then the hot weather will destroy your players. England as a squad played horribly last world cup. Not to mention BS captaincy issues. Too many roosters in the hen house.

And if anyone mentions it, no Lewis Hamilton is a poor example. He's a terrible example of a good headline maker. Almost as bad as Vettel. Both are A Grade tools.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I really don't care. I don't buy English papers. But in an Olympic year when I read a substantial number of articles going on about handing out passports...yeah, I'd say it's an issue.

I suggest you do a bit of research. The number of imported winners is vanishingly small, if indeed there are any other than Froome and Phil Hindes.

 

[Galic Ho]

I did mean the lovely Laura. I get the joke now.

If we're simply talking about people playing for a national side when not born there, then Galic might like to consider where the following Aussie rugby union players - all in the match day squad for the first Lions test, so top rank players - were born:

Israel Folau
Christian Leali'ifano
Digby Iaone
Will Genia

The answer in all case is "not Australia". So why does Galic get so agitated about his "Plastic Brits"? Better to be a Plastic Brit than an Artificial Aussie, I'd say.

Like I said...when it comes to Union and League, it's a given some of these guys will be from Pacific Islands. Folau was playing State of Origin for Queensland at 18-19. That's insane. He spent 2 years in AFL. I didn't even know he was in the Wallabies squad! If I looked hard enough, which I couldn't be bothered to, I'd probably find Folau was a junior Aussie schoolboy League rep. Most State of Origins boys are.

As far as footie goes, people care more whether you play for NSW or Queensland. As for me, I cheer for Queensland and take great delight over a 6 week period in June and July during which NSW gets their behinds flogged and all the braggers on Facebook get told off.

As far as footie goes, it's a given what you said. The Islanders are BIG boys. NZ has borrowed some as well. Now in sports besides footie, if we borrowed players, well there would be an outcry. Say swimming. Or even cycling. Rowing. Sailing. Surfing. Horse racing. Phar Lap doesn't count.

BTW I don't watch footie anymore so I don't care, let alone pay attention to who is playing for whom and where unless I see pictures in papers or Facebook news feeds. But I your point stands.

 

[Galic Ho]

He might even ask why the all-conquoring Aussies are 'stealing' british women swimmers!

One swimmer right. Forget her name. How'd she go at the World Champs? Last years Olympics?

Australia has more than enough female swimmers. One Brit won't steal all the water in the pool. I dare say she moved for the weather. Good on her. I'd move to but then again, my ancestors had the brains to do so centuries ago.

 

[Galic Ho]

I suggest you do a bit of research. The number of imported winners is vanishingly small, if indeed there are any other than Froome and Phil Hindes.

You want me to sit down and research EVERY British champion?

Name me the good lookers and I'll consider it. This list better be long.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I'm sure ACF94 and the Evans fan brigade were merely drunk.

Do you actually pay attention to SBS? The only people jeering Porte and Rogers for not helping Evans were the July warriors. The non July warriors who jeered them did so because they ride for Sky and were miles better than they'd ever been.

That clear up your confusion?

I was never confused. The other guy was just wrong

As I said, those fans were most likely ignorant.

As for football... England is plagued with a backwards mentality when it comes to coaching kids. Until the focus is on technique rather than hard tackling and power nothing is going to change anytime soon.

 

[Galic Ho]

hrotha is Spanish. Don't know how you know his first and last names though.

of course there are plenty of Spanish speakers, my point was merely that the ones you named were not them.

I would list his name but that'd be rude.

There was a thread back in late 2011 I believe, one of the ridiculously long Armstrong threads and in it the talk filtered to Armstrong and his cronies finding out people's names to put them on some blacklist or register.

Hrotha said he didn't give a flying frak what Armstrong thought and dropped his name and said he wasn't afraid of him. I noticed because that very same guy, was leaving quite a few sharp and witty comments about Armstrong on the cyclingnews Facebook status updates.

I am also sure I found out who Polish was/is the same way. Ryo during his last ban was making a ton of comments on YouTube videos under a different name. Same avatar picture, same posting style, grammar and tone. So I notice things...then again, like you showed, I also miss things. I can't read everything, nor do I have the time to. I don't even think the most dedicated mods do.

 

[Galic Ho]

I was never confused. The other guy was just wrong

As I said, those fans were most likely ignorant.

As for football... England is plagued with a backwards mentality when it comes to coaching kids. Until the focus is on technique rather than hard tackling and power nothing is going to change anytime soon.

A change in refereeing might fix that. Take a look at the Socceroos. All physical domination. Technique means squat. To think most Aussies call the Italians divers! We could learn a thing or two from adopting their training systems.

At least your country has won a World Cup. We might do really well in 2018 if the heat is extreme. But that will be down to everyone else tanking. In extreme heat I'd back Australia in almost any sport that involves endurance and fatigue.

You were right BTW. Those fans are ignorant. They're the type who think Tomo and the Tan Man are good entertainment and knowledgeable. Which by itself disqualifies their opinions and actions as being intelligent and well thought out.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

You want me to sit down and research EVERY British champion?

No, but you highlighted that Britain was relying on "imports" in the main for its success. You should at least have researched the identities of the successful imports, as then you'd have found there weren't very many of them!

 

[martinvickers]

No, but you highlighted that Britain was relying on "imports" in the main for its success. You should at least have researched the identities of the successful imports, as then you'd have found there weren't very many of them!

Three options open.

Accept his lack of knowledge, and therefore say nothing.
Research to get the knowledge, say something with some knowledge.
Just talk ****.

Pretty clear which option he chose, and given his back history of bigotry, no real shock.

 

[bobbins]

No, but you highlighted that Britain was relying on "imports" in the main for its success. You should at least have researched the identities of the successful imports, as then you'd have found there weren't very many of them!

Just because you don't agree with the rules around nationality doesn't make it wrong.

Maybe start a new thread if you feel so passionately about it rather than clog up this one?

 

[del1962]

Just because you don't agree with the rules around nationality doesn't make it wrong.

Maybe start a new thread if you feel so passionately about it rather than clog up this one?

I don't think it was W&G that brought up nationality,

anyway as this threads title kind of puts nationality as part of the topic, what was your complaint about again?

 

[bobbins]

I don't think it was W&G that brought up nationality,

anyway as this threads title kind of puts nationality as part of the topic, what was your complaint about again?

Sorry, quoted the wrong thing. Reading it has made me lose the will to live.

 

[horsinabout]

I was responding to your earlier comment: "Even the riders, the big wigs, aren't really Brits."So I gave you a list of genuine Brits who won gold at last years OGs.

Re doping, I'd be pretty confident that the rowing and track cycling women are clean. The depth in these events is pretty dismal, with all due respect to those that do compete, as you can only beat what's there. For example, Helen Glover took up rowing a couple of weeks before the 2008 OGs and was winning a silver medal in the World Champs 2 years later. There's also b*gger all financial incentive to win for the women in most Olympic events. The aforementioned Helen Glover is still solely funded by lottery money and able to go to the supermarket and be totally unrecognised.

I wouldn't put any money on it though.

Re first point in bold - the coaching staff are nearly all imports.

Second point re women on track not doping. This is a sweeping stereotypical generalisation, and you are not focusing on the main predictors of doping. A strong field does not necessarily mean numbers in depth. look at the times the British women are doing in the omnium and sprint events. Astronomically quick. Greater predictions of doping are times and performance outcomes with a nationally funded program behind them. That is to say, a nationally funded program that produces record breaking times and dominant gold medal winning performances.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Re first point in bold - the coaching staff are nearly all imports.

Second point re women on track not doping.

Re coaching staff - agreed. It's difficult knowing precisely what Galic is ranting about at any particular point. I thought he was ranting about athletes rather than coaches.

Re women on track, I'd agree that there is a large base of performances for the indiv sprint on which to make assessments, but the TP and Omnium were new for the 2012 OGs and thus were only major events since 2009. Thus, there just isn't the history of performance on which to make assessments of what's normal and what's not.

For the women in particular, the sheer volume of money and the coaching/kit advantages that this conveys is a huge factor.

They could all be doped to the eyeballs, but there are more factors in play here than, for example, for the men on the road, so I don't think you can be so confident of the "They are winning on a bike so they must be doping" theory.

 

[the sceptic]

nice clean win by Ohuruogu.

Another example that you will become better after you stop doping. Hopefully the eastern europeans are taking notice.

 

[horsinabout]

Re coaching staff - agreed. It's difficult knowing precisely what Galic is ranting about at any particular point. I thought he was ranting about athletes rather than coaches.

Re women on track, I'd agree that there is a large base of performances for the indiv sprint on which to make assessments, but the TP and Omnium were new for the 2012 OGs and thus were only major events since 2009. Thus, there just isn't the history of performance on which to make assessments of what's normal and what's not.

For the women in particular, the sheer volume of money and the coaching/kit advantages that this conveys is a huge factor.

They could all be doped to the eyeballs, but there are more factors in play here than, for example, for the men on the road, so I don't think you can be so confident of the "They are winning on a bike so they must be doping" theory.

They are new events for women, yes, but not lack lustre. Again I point you to performance outcomes along with a nationally funded program that demands Gold. The winning Omnium times being produced (in the sprint events part of the women's Omnium) would very nearly be competitive in the individual sprint.

In the case of the success on the track at Olympics and Worlds, I don't see what other factors make it more likely for the men to dope over women. They are both equally medal potentials. And I think the women's track is more competitive than you are giving it credit for.

As for your last quote, I am not suggesting doping just because of winning, I am basing it on performance outcomes and my knowledge of that.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

They are new events for women, yes, but not lack lustre. Again I point you to performance outcomes along with a nationally funded program that demands Gold. The winning Omnium times being produced (in the sprint events part of the women's Omnium) would very nearly be competitive in the individual sprint.

In the case of the success on the track at Olympics and Worlds, I don't see what other factors make it more likely for the men to dope over women. They are both equally medal potentials. And I think the women's track is more competitive than you are giving it credit for.

As for your last quote, I am not suggesting doping just because of winning, I am basing it on performance outcomes and my knowledge of that.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

nice clean win by Ohuruogu.

Another example that you will become better after you stop doping. Hopefully the eastern europeans are taking notice.

Whatever you think of Christine O, she is a superb championship performer. I think she's been in the lead for around 10m in total of her 3 global championship wins.

Not entirely sure that her time of 49.41, a whopping 0.02s faster than Kathy Cook's UK record from 1984 is necessarily suspicious. She just runs as fast as she needs to win.