Brits don't dope?

[King Boonen]

Johnathan Edwards was a Christian when he broke the triple jump world record so it is therefore very unlikely that he was doping (unless God told him to dope of course). He has now realised that it's all a load of nonsense but that's irrelevant to what he was doing in the 90s.

I can't believe anyone would ever try and make that argument seriously, so I'll just assume you were making a joke.

 

[lemoogle]

Not sure it's fair to compare men's and women's

The women's are completely stagnant in many events. history seems to prove that the gains possible through systematic doping for women are of a different quality for women; probably linked with masculisation. No-one, in our life time is touching the 100, 400 or 800 records.

None of the men's records have shown so resistant, and the doping regimes of communist eastern europe did not seem to provide the domination in male athletics (or swimming for that matter) it did in female. Bolt's 100 record might - I'm not convinced his 200 record will. So it's a lot harder to draw comparisons quite do broadly.

AS for the BBC panel, some did, some didn't. I doubt anyone here knows as much as they'd like to pretend. (And for the record, i think there were two that doped, two that didn't, and one i can't pin down.)

It's funny because back in the day it was Michael Johnson's 200m record that was thought to unbreakable. Now it's been shattered by bolt and the likes of yohan blake... leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I'm happy with one "phenomenon" doing something incredible, but some "ex doper" from the same country beating a legendary performance

 

[King Boonen]

Dopers beat a doper, hardly something to get angry about.

 

[lemoogle]

Dopers beat a doper, hardly something to get angry about.

Haha yeah but I was watching Michael Johnson growing up before i started asking myself questions, and he was my favourite athlete , along with bubka.
(+ he seemed/seems like a nice guy but I KNOW I KNOW it doesn't mean crap )

I never even thought to look back for any evidence against him but nothing would surprise me. At least he was no Flo JO.

 

[roundabout]

The 80's doping was amazing. I did not realize that Kratochvilova did sub-22 seconds for the 200.

Although

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/sl...ratochvilovatn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

I perhaps should wonder about running a 1 53 800.

 

[blackcat]

Johnathan Edwards was a Christian when he broke the triple jump world record so it is therefore very unlikely that he was doping

i suppose this was why the prevalence of catholic priests were not sodomising you boys. oh, did someone say, no they were. whoops

 

[martinvickers]

i suppose this was why the prevalence of catholic priests were not sodomising you boys. oh, did someone say, no they were. whoops

Have you been drinking again?

 

[Race Radio]

I don't have any data to back up what I'm about to say but... If we let results be the judge of PEDs (ab)use, we can honestly say that road cycling in the UK did not have a doping "problem" until UK Postal burst into the scene. And I'm not even a Brit (I'm Spanish actually).

I mean... there have been sporadic positives here and there but nothing even remotely close to the well-structured and funded doping cells/rings (even institutions) in the USA, Germany, Spain, Italy or France.

 

[blackcat]

The 80's doping was amazing. I did not realize that Kratochvilova did sub-22 seconds for the 200.

Although

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/sl...ratochvilovatn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

I perhaps should wonder about running a 1 53 800.

thats a bloke right?

 

[blackcat]

I don't have any data to back up what I'm about to say but... If we let results be the judge of PEDs (ab)use, we can honestly say that road cycling in the UK did not have a doping "problem" until UK Postal burst into the scene. And I'm not even a Brit (I'm Spanish actually).

I mean... there have been sporadic positives here and there but nothing even remotely close to the well-structured and funded doping cells/rings (even institutions) in the USA, Germany, Spain, Italy or France.

but what was your pool of road cyclists? the catchment of competitors?

i think the salient point is, there was no road cycling culture, even with GP Leeds and Linda McCartney

 

[Archibald]

USPS is a classic example....Mixed nationality team, doping provided by Spanish and Italians, managed by a Belgian , and paid for by US taxpayers

there's what Pat Mac claims as "the globalisation" of cycling, right there

 

[bianchigirl]

Talking of Linda McCartney team - what happened to the UKADA enquiry into doping practices on that team?

 

[blackcat]

Talking of Linda McCartney team - what happened to the UKADA enquiry into doping practices on that team?

ask Matt Decanio about choco (ben) brooks and his fridge of epo in Varese (conurbation milan) hahah.

and spencer smith, "the thighs" triathlete from britain with worlds worst haircut. max sciandri, who else did they have. wiggo was on the year they went under. dave mckenzie the australian commentator too, he won a stage of the giro in a day long breakaway, a landis single man gambit. but he was not gc.

ohhh linda mac. they only ait vegetarian and never dope <rolls eyes smiley sarcasm face>

 

[poupou]

The 80's doping was amazing. I did not realize that Kratochvilova did sub-22 seconds for the 200.

Although

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/sl...ratochvilovatn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

I perhaps should wonder about running a 1 53 800.

Kratochvilova set all of that:
100 m – 11,09 s – 1981, Bratislava (NR)
200 m – 21,97 s – 1981, Bratislava (NR)
400 m – 47,99 s – 1983, Helsinky (NR)
800 m – 1:53,28 – 1983, Mnichov (SR, NR)

 

[lemoogle]

Most outrageous still standing doping performance ever ( 100m Women Flo Jo )

I love how the commentator thinks the clock is just broken, because "noone can run that fast ".

 

[martinvickers]

Most outrageous still standing doping performance ever ( 100m Women Flo Jo )

I love how the commentator thinks the clock is just broken, because "noone can run that fast ".

Absolutely doping, but not just the doping. The key to the time was a faulty wind gauge. Read 0.0, but elsewhere in the same stadium it was well past 3.0. Even IAAF acknowledge that.

Without that wind, run was worth about 10.65-10.7 - which is closer to the most suspicious runs today, and more interesting as a result.

Gatlin I think ran 9.5 something i think with an artificial gale behind him, but i could be wrong on the identity

 

[armchairclimber]

Re. Jonathan Edwards....he might have been doping, he might not. Personally, I doubt it. His phenomenal world record will, I think, be broken soon enough.

He was technically superb. He was also famed for his strength in the gym (which will doubtless be seen as a sign that he doped).

I wasn't involved in the sport back then, just a keen observer. These days I see/hear nothing of doping amongst the many athletes I encounter. Endurance is my thing though. I think that the speed and strength disciplines are higher risk.

 

[Pharazon]

Re. Jonathan Edwards....he might have been doping, he might not. Personally, I doubt it. His phenomenal world record will, I think, be broken soon enough.

He was technically superb. He was also famed for his strength in the gym (which will doubtless be seen as a sign that he doped).

I wasn't involved in the sport back then, just a keen observer. These days I see/hear nothing of doping amongst the many athletes I encounter. Endurance is my thing though. I think that the speed and strength disciplines are higher risk.

triple jumping is a different kind of thing though because it's so weirdly technical..

take a look at his 18.43 wind assisted jump... the rythm is just perfect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmUJ2GfVkKY

 

[blackcat]

He was technically superb. He was also famed for his strength in the gym (which will doubtless be seen as a sign that he doped).

both.

less speed on runway, less one-off long jump, but like in hurdles, he had the skill in application. technicall superb^

and his arms and chest, what was he 178cm,67kg, and he could bench 150kg. not cos he had any muscles that fur shur

 

[The Hitch]

But sure he's a Brit, right? So, by the rules, either he's sh!t or he's cheating, right?

You are always so quick to announce which posters made it onto your ignore list for "trolling"and yet your response to a question about a guy who holds a 2 decade world record in a sport notorious for doping is to offer a shockingly amateur attempt at playing the race card.

I made it eplixitly clear that Edwards world record and the fact that he achieved it in the uber doping era is what's suspicious.*

I've also always consistently questioned all athletes who put out world record performances, and when it has suited you to do so, you have admited this yourself in attempts tk attack other posters.

Baring that in mind "you are only accusing him because he is British" appears as the **** poor attempt at trolling and baiting that it is.*

Race and nationality are not variables I look for in dopers. Try again.

 

[armchairclimber]

You are always so quick to announce which posters made it onto your ignore list for "trolling"and yet your response to a question about a guy who holds a 2 decade world record in a sport notorious for doping is to offer a shockingly amateur attempt at playing the race card.

I made it eplixitly clear that Edwards world record and the fact that he achieved it in the uber doping era is what's suspicious.*

I've also always consistently questioned all athletes who put out world record performances, and when it has suited you to do so, you have admited this yourself in attempts tk attack other posters.

Baring that in mind "you are only accusing him because he is British" appears as the **** poor attempt at trolling and baiting that it is.*

Race and nationality are not variables I look for in dopers. Try again.

"all athletes who put out world record performances"

Bekele?

 

[martinvickers]

You are always so quick to announce which posters made it onto your ignore list for "trolling"and yet your response to a question about a guy who holds a 2 decade world record in a sport notorious for doping is to offer a shockingly amateur attempt at playing the race card.

I made it eplixitly clear that Edwards world record and the fact that he achieved it in the uber doping era is what's suspicious.*

I've also always consistently questioned all athletes who put out world record performances, and when it has suited you to do so, you have admited this yourself in attempts tk attack other posters.

Baring that in mind "you are only accusing him because he is British" appears as the **** poor attempt at trolling and baiting that it is.*

Race and nationality are not variables I look for in dopers. Try again.

Really?

Let's see again how Edwards entered the thread shall we?

Originally posted by the Hitch

watching today's triple jump made me think of Jonathan Edwards. The guy today became only the third in history to.jump over 18 metres with 18.04 and yet Edwards is well out there at 18.26 is it?

Both him and the sweedish fella did their out of this world performances in what even the most delusional defender of sport being clean would begrudgingly admit was the era of 0 testing and superdoping.

Is Edwards another example of this British uber race theory, or like everyone else who broke records in the 90s was he a doper? If so it's important because he is a made guy on the bbc.

Yeah, you're a fibber Hitch.

More generally...


1. you did read the thread title, right? You do understand the whole point of the thread?

2. Go to a good dictionary, and look up Sarcasm (n)

This entire thread is a piece of race-baiting sh!te. You know it. I know it. Large lumps of the clinic have descended into some bizarre Anglos v Latins v Slavs bull. Hell, Galic Ho descended into racist ranting against the Irish because I didn't fall in line!

It's become standard practice here to parrot about supposed claims of 'muscular christianity' or "British uber race" theory in order to mock suggestions that some successful Brits, you know, might conceivably NOT dope. Heaven forfend.

If you wanted to talk Edwards there was 'doping in other sports' - which by your explanation is the sensible place to discuss it, since his 'race' -by which we presume nationality - is clearly not an issue for you.

and yet you're here in "Brits don't dope?" pontificating about British uber-race theory.

You see my confusion, Hitch? Bearing in mind, after all, i'm just a thick paddy.

 

[sniper]

To be sure, nationality does matter, race doesnt.

nobody is born a doper. The chances of becoming a doper depend on a lot of factors but race is not one of them. Lukckily nobody has suggested anything of that sort.
on the other hand, one's nation can (but need not) be a factor.

Obvious point in case, the east germans of the 70s and 80s werent born as dopers. It was, however, their nationality that sealed their fate as dopers.

To stay on topic, at present, it is not farfetched to assume that out of 100 frenchmen and 100 britts, youll find more britts doping than french.
antidoping in france simply seems better developed and seems to be taken more seriously right now than in brittain.

 

[lemoogle]

Really?

Let's see again how Edwards entered the thread shall we?



Yeah, you're a liar Hitch.

More generally...


1. you did read the thread title, right? You do understand the whole point of the thread?

2. Go to a good dictionary, and look up Sarcasm (n)

This entire thread is a piece of race-baiting sh!te. You know it. I know it. Large lumps of the clinic have descended into some bizarre Anglos v Latins v Slavs bull. Hell, Galic Ho descended into racist ranting against the Irish because I didn't fall in line!

It's become standard practice here to parrot about supposed claims of 'muscular christianity' or "British uber race" theory in order to mock suggestions that some successful Brits, you know, might conceivably NOT dope. Heaven forfend.

If you wanted to talk Edwards there was 'doping in other sports' - which by your explanation is the sensible place to discuss it, since his 'race' -by which we presume nationality - is clearly not an issue for you.

and yet you're here in "Brits don't dope?" pontificating about British uber-race theory.

You see my confusion, Hitch? Bearing in mind, after all, i'm just a thick paddy.

This is the most ridiculous misinterpretation of what he said ever.
He was on topic because this thread turned into general athletics talk due to the world champs. Then he brought up edwards because even a performance of 18.04 which is one of the 3 greatest performances of all time is still so far from Edwards' world record, which is a record from the era that was being discussed as being very suspicious in the very same thread.

Nothing to do about him being british, only his comment on "should we treat edwards the same as all the other record breakers from that era, or not because he is british " .

 

[Alphabet]

Well, I have lived in Australia for the last few years and, speaking as a Brit, my experience is quite different to yours.

Fair enough. But at the end of the day, this is cycling. There's little to no culture of tribalistic support which manifests itself into bitter accusations to discredit the achievements of a rival, unlike what you get in football (e.g. some of the more..strange.. Liverpool fans who genuinely believed that the only reason Man United have usurped Liverpool as the biggest football club in England is because Ferguson had the FA and the referees in his pocket); so allegiances to certain riders based on nationality or personal liking shouldn't be used as a stick to beat posters with. Even when airstream posts about Contador in the Clinic, people can't assume that he's railing against Contador because he hates him/because he likes Andy and ignore his points, which may be insightful irrespective of his motives.

This also is true for all those 'lol Brit Skybot' type posts, which add absolutely nothing.

FWIW, I'm not even an 'ethnic' Anglo-Saxon Australian. My parents migrated here.