Brits don't dope?

[ray j willings]

You will win every competition you enter for the next five years but will then die from the side effects.

50% of athletes said they would use the banned performance enhancing drug in this case.

I think this is much more interesting than %98 stat. It is simply unimaginable to think that people won't intend to dope (Obviosly doping propely is another thing) in today's environment.

The athletes don't really believe that they will die. Its something that they say because they do not think it will really happen to them. When they are asked this they are in the shape of their lives. They cannot see how they can possibly die so IMO the question really does not sink in. Its like telling a smoker that he has a strong chance of getting cancer. They will think they are the ones who will get away with it and so carry on smoking.

 

[The Hitch]

You will win every competition you enter for the next five years but will then die from the side effects.

50% of athletes said they would use the banned performance enhancing drug in this case.

I think this is much more interesting than %98 stat. It is simply unimaginable to think that people won't intend to dope (Obviosly doping propely is another thing) in today's environment.

The 50% one, didn't that explicitly not mention performance enhancing drugs? It just said - would you do this if it meant death.

I ask because if it did not mention ped's fanboys will dismiss the survey on the basis that it doesn't take into account morality. - Oh yeah, they are willing to die to win, but you ignore that my favourite athletes are so good (cue irrelevant example) that they wouldn't cheat to win. or words to that effect.

I like the 98% survey because its very clear. Would you dope. Yes or no. 98% say yes. Boom. Clear as day. Wrap it up and put a little bow around it. No way for the journos to twist it.

 

[blackcat]

The athletes don't really believe that they will die. Its something that they say because they do not think it will really happen to them. When they are asked this they are in the shape of their lives. They cannot see how they can possibly die so IMO the question really does not sink in. Its like telling a smoker that he has a strong chance of getting cancer. They will think they are the ones who will get away with it and so carry on smoking.

lets reverse this.

lets begin with the premise: athletes don't really believe that they can live without their pursuit.

this pursuit assumes...

 

[blackcat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEGpv0xn0E8

@ 7.24 & 7.56 to watch the greatest "clean" Grand Tour Champion in history zig zagging behind climbing specialist Gerrans.

can we get someone to cut up those dozen seconds, then put up a new zigzag climbing maestro youtube clip for Brailsford and bilharzia conquerers worlwide. There should be a charity trust in that atleast

 

[burning]

The 50% one, didn't that explicitly not mention performance enhancing drugs? It just said - would you do this if it meant death.

I ask because if it did not mention ped's fanboys will dismiss the survey on the basis that it doesn't take into account morality. - Oh yeah, they are willing to die to win, but you ignore that my favourite athletes are so good (cue irrelevant example) that they wouldn't cheat to win. or words to that effect.

I like the 98% survey because its very clear. Would you dope. Yes or no. 98% say yes. Boom. Clear as day. Wrap it up and put a little bow around it. No way for the journos to twist it.

According to the article, the %50 one doping mentions doping as well. Considering %50 of athletes will willingly die to win stuff while doping as well, it is simply simple logic that pretty much every elite athlete will try to dope to have an edge against their competitors.

 

[ray j willings]

lets reverse this.

lets begin with the premise: athletes don't really believe that they can live without their pursuit.

this pursuit assumes...

I'm responding to the question in hand. If you want to elaborate "reverse" then go ahead. There are many routes you could go "premise" but I was responding to what was posted.

Be interested to hear your opinion all the same. I am a good listener.

 

[sniper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEGpv0xn0E8

@ 7.24 & 7.56 to watch the greatest "clean" Grand Tour Champion in history zig zagging behind climbing specialist Gerrans.

froome practicing for alpe d'huez?

otoh, he does hang on to a 6th spot in that stage, and he's still five years younger than Gerrans there.
I guess one could claim he's showing some talent there.

 

[thehog]

froome practicing for alpe d'huez?

otoh, he does hang on to a 6th spot in that stage, and he's still five years younger than Gerrans there.
I guess one could claim he's showing some talent there.

And he beat 7 time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong in a mountain top finish

 

[LaFlorecita]

And he beat 7 time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong in a mountain top finish

And at the Vuelta a Castilla y Leon in 2011 he beat Contador on a MTF

 

[Briant_Gumble]

The athletes don't really believe that they will die. Its something that they say because they do not think it will really happen to them. When they are asked this they are in the shape of their lives. They cannot see how they can possibly die so IMO the question really does not sink in. Its like telling a smoker that he has a strong chance of getting cancer. They will think they are the ones who will get away with it and so carry on smoking.

I agree with this. If you ask them after a team mate or family member has died I guarantee you will get a different answer, especially if they died because of doping.

 

[thehog]

I agree with this. If you ask them after a team mate or family member has died I guarantee you will get a different answer, especially if they died because of doping.

Not so much.

When you're doping and training hard you get the most awesome physique. You look amazing. How could you die if you look so good?

Steroids abuse not included.

 

[blackcat]

The athletes don't really believe that they will die. Its something that they say because they do not think it will really happen to them. When they are asked this they are in the shape of their lives. They cannot see how they can possibly die so IMO the question really does not sink in. Its like telling a smoker that he has a strong chance of getting cancer. They will think they are the ones who will get away with it and so carry on smoking.

its not merely the shape of their lives. lets forget about how they got into that shape.

you posit they may be undermining the fullness of their life.

what if the fullness of their life, is the pursuit of the win, of the glory. that is their raison d'etre. not being in the shape of their life. but the bouyancy of the win, and the pursuit of that win, which the athlete considers must be only fulfilled down the doping route.

you consider a corporal health. i consider the ephemeral psychological ecstasy in the pursuit and/or fulfillment of sporting glory.

ok, one is dangerous. but not to pursue that option, is to deny the self of its purpose.

ok, this was just a devils advocate.

what you are looking at on the professional sporting field, is a selective sample, i am assuming a significant, a material proportion turned their back on a professional life of sport, when they appreciated how compromised it was for them.

 

[blackcat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEGpv0xn0E8

@ 7.24 & 7.56 to watch the greatest "clean" Grand Tour Champion in history zig zagging behind climbing specialist Gerrans.

nah, he just blew up. that was not zigzagging like he was behind Purito on a 24% gradient and he needed to titrate the geometry.


jesus christ hog. we want rigour. atleast now i know the reference folks were using. this is specious and does not accurately demonstrate the racing as it occurred.

 

[ferryman]

Anyone want to play a little unscientific Bilharzia game?

Open to all sides (just to prove I'm not a pathetic troll).

I've posted several times before what my South African sis in law has said about this infection and its treatment. She's medically trained in SA but not a doc or expert in any way, to set the scene. Anyway, the family is up in Scotland for the holidays and I should be able to quiz her on this a wee bit more next week. Sooo, what questions should I put to her?

Five from each side would be ideal, before she or me or you get bored...

Do let me know...a) stupid/pathetic post..or b) here's an interesting question you could ask...

 

[RownhamHill]

. . .She's medically trained in SA but not a doc or expert in any way, to set the scene. . .

Q1: does she know any expert doctors in the field who can answer the rest of the questions?

 

[ray j willings]

its not merely the shape of their lives. lets forget about how they got into that shape.

you posit they may be undermining the fullness of their life.

what if the fullness of their life, is the pursuit of the win, of the glory. that is their raison d'etre. not being in the shape of their life. but the bouyancy of the win, and the pursuit of that win, which the athlete considers must be only fulfilled down the doping route.

you consider a corporal health. i consider the ephemeral psychological ecstasy in the pursuit and/or fulfillment of sporting glory.

ok, one is dangerous. but not to pursue that option, is to deny the self of its purpose.

ok, this was just a devils advocate.

what you are looking at on the professional sporting field, is a selective sample, i am assuming a significant, a material proportion turned their back on a professional life of sport, when they appreciated how compromised it was for them.

Excellent response . But I think I think its a more about the morals of cheating rather than thinking they may die.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Anyone want to play a little unscientific Bilharzia game?

Open to all sides (just to prove I'm not a pathetic troll).

I've posted several times before what my South African sis in law has said about this infection and its treatment. She's medically trained in SA but not a doc or expert in any way, to set the scene. Anyway, the family is up in Scotland for the holidays and I should be able to quiz her on this a wee bit more next week. Sooo, what questions should I put to her?

Five from each side would be ideal, before she or me or you get bored...

Do let me know...a) stupid/pathetic post..or b) here's an interesting question you could ask...

Based on his alleged time line - go best case scenario for Froome, what is the impact? Would his ABP be affected? Would he be able to ride at all at the elite level?

 

[blackcat]

Based on his alleged time line - go best case scenario for Froome, what is the impact? Would his ABP be affected? Would he be able to ride at all at the elite level?

any response on bilharzia, i confirmationbias verb it away. i already have my mind made up, i saw how he dropped 6kgs he had no right to lose from his Barloworld pro athlete physique, i saw how he improved his climbing and his timetrial, when there should be an inverse correlation between the two unless you are michael rasmussen,

i even remember dave brailsford's ergo testing when Froome-dawg wanted a her majesties passport, and i remember his first TdF with Kansta (phonic nickname) Sioutsou at Barloworld which was tremendously impressive even tho i get mocked for saying it was, basically, all my thoughts summed up in a pro-Froome thread i OP'ed.

But have no doubt, this bilharzia palava, real or imagined or propaganda from british cycling, it is not the reason he was not winning multiple TdF's. He is doped as much as the rest of them, and he really should have won Wiggins TdF.

I liked LAndis' line on Wiggins self-consciousness about not even being the best rider in his team at his TdF win, let alone the best rider during that TdF.

pithy, and spot on. Should have given the line to Zac Galafanakis Flandis' fraternal chimera.

 

[TailWindHome]

The strawman response seems to be quite trendy. .

Trendy or otherwise its the only response in these circumstances

The Hog has demanded that I reconcile for him a position I have never taken with a gross exaggeration of an entirely unrelated post.

I have neither the time, the energy or the motivation to indulge him.

 

[thehog]

Anyone want to play a little unscientific Bilharzia game?

Open to all sides (just to prove I'm not a pathetic troll).

I've posted several times before what my South African sis in law has said about this infection and its treatment. She's medically trained in SA but not a doc or expert in any way, to set the scene. Anyway, the family is up in Scotland for the holidays and I should be able to quiz her on this a wee bit more next week. Sooo, what questions should I put to her?

Five from each side would be ideal, before she or me or you get bored...

Do let me know...a) stupid/pathetic post..or b) here's an interesting question you could ask...

I would ask about the ABP then the treatment plan and if true that he one day became "cured" as announced last year.

Finally Id ask the impact to athletic performances and if it really does "munch" on red blood cells like Walsh told us.

Oh and does it make you wear sandshoes when riding a race bike...

 

[Digger]

I would ask about the ABP then the treatment plan and if true that he one day became "cured" as announced last year.

Finally Id ask the impact to athletic performances and if it really does "munch" on red blood cells like Walsh told us.Oh and does it make you wear sandshoes when riding a race bike...

Froome also said this in an interview with Dutch TV in the fall of 2011 or maybe 2012...

But when Kimmage asked why his biopassport wasn't affected, Cound intervened and said it wasn't that far advanced - froome then told her it was!

I mean it's like Laurel and Hardy with those two.

 

[ray j willings]

Trendy or otherwise its the only response in these circumstances

The Hog has demanded that I reconcile for him a position I have never taken with a gross exaggeration of an entirely unrelated post.

I have neither the time, the energy or the motivation to indulge him.

That's fair enough.

Can I ask you a question.
If a hypothetical team had hired a known doping Dr and that teams results and performances greatly improved from the previous year and a rider who has never shown in any previous form that he could be a GT contender and all of a sudden starts riding and competing at a level he has never reached before and his times up the mountains on his tour winning year were some of the quickest and were quicker than that of known doped riders ,would that not at least raise eyebrows?
I know the Sky story I have seen the video and I would imagine that's where your truth lay. But surly you could at least acknowledge that with the facts we know and the history and culture of cycling the views of some of us do have merit and are bit more than just being anti Sky for the sake of it.

 

[sniper]

Anyone want to play a little unscientific Bilharzia game?

Open to all sides (just to prove I'm not a pathetic troll).

I've posted several times before what my South African sis in law has said about this infection and its treatment. She's medically trained in SA but not a doc or expert in any way, to set the scene. Anyway, the family is up in Scotland for the holidays and I should be able to quiz her on this a wee bit more next week. Sooo, what questions should I put to her?

Five from each side would be ideal, before she or me or you get bored...

Do let me know...a) stupid/pathetic post..or b) here's an interesting question you could ask...

Froome's story is so full of holes you gotta wonder who (besides Walsh) takes it seriously.
If you have time on your hands, the Badzilla thead gives a good overview.
You don't have to dig deep into that thread to find relevant questions.
Just one of many examples (and one that your sister in law might be able to shed light on):

I thought this was interesting:

A letter to the editor of the Zambia Post:



How Froome managed to be infected for years and not pass blood through his urine is pretty damn miraculous imo.

 

[thehog]

Froome also said this in an interview with Dutch TV in the fall of 2011 or maybe 2012...

But when Kimmage asked why his biopassport wasn't affected, Cound intervened and said it wasn't that far advanced - froome then told her it was!

I mean it's like Laurel and Hardy with those two.

I was thinking more George and Mildred. With a Tori Spellling styled reality show once the Dawg goes positive and has his downfall.

 

[blackcat]

I was thinking more George and Mildred. With a Tori Spellling styled reality show once the Dawg goes positive and has his downfall.

what about Cound?