Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

[dirkprovin]

Re:

I don't see why they would be concerned about a possible move to Sky. If that happened, I'm pretty sure they would get top billing within the team; I would be more concerned for riders such as Porte and Henao if that were to happen, as they would be the ones losing standing. Never underestimate the power of marketing.

The new "Great British GC Hope(s)" on the "marquee" British team ?? With the British media being what it is, that can be an awful lot of hype to live with and live up to.

Top billing ?? Isn't that a little premature ?? GC for one weeks tours - yes, Adam has won Tour of Turkey (a well rated sub WT event) and they've both shown they can contend/top 10 at WT one-weekers but that's still a big gap to showing whether they're likely to be contenders over 3 weeks. Adam has finished one and Simon yet to do so. At this point, neither are anywhere near the TTin level of most major GT contenders. Both have put in good TT performances this season but these have been uphill TTs rather than flat where they still have major room for improvement

One day races - it's more a case of getting the experience and knowledge of these races at this point of their careers. Either or both may become contenders for Ardennes type classics but realistically that's at least a few years in the future.

A SKY move would most certainly be a massive boost to their bank balances and could also be commercially lucrative in their home market. It could be the right move for them. However, the hype can turn poisonous should they be seen not to live up to expectations. Loading them with top billing is NOT something I feel a positive mood at this time.

 

[greenedge]

Re:

Have they already made up their mind ? They certainly haven't put ink to paper on the OGE offer. In the off season, OGE DID announce signings of 3 young AUS riders for 2016. Two of these, Rob Power & Jack Haig, are seen as being major climbing talent and the third, Alex Edmondson, is part of the AUS Teams Pursuit and may be TT material. Are these signings part cover for Yates' departure or for potential/likely retirements ?

Probably the latter, though also other transfers should be considered. It's also good that OGE are investing in young Australian talent, something they could have improved for quite a few years (NRS riders such as Earle, Flakemore... and then riders like Dennis who went to BMC). Haig has a good time-trial as well, even Power.

 

[barmaher]

I find it hard to distinguish the brothers. I remember reading a couple of years ago that one was more suited to longer climbs, whereas one is more of a puncheur. Looking at them in the last 15 months, I find they are very similar in styles and abilities.

Is one of them deemed to be more talented?

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

I find it hard to distinguish the brothers. I remember reading a couple of years ago that one was more suited to longer climbs, whereas one is more of a puncheur. Looking at them in the last 15 months, I find they are very similar in styles and abilities.

Is one of them deemed to be more talented?

From what they've achieved over the last couple of years I would say Adam is suited to the longer climbs with Simon showing last week he likes the shorter, steeper stuff. However they are both young enough to keep improving so this may change.

On a point made a few posts above I would say that should they move to Sky I don't think the pressure will be too much at all. The majority of the British press only care about the Tour, and let's be honest they aren't going to remove Froome as the Tour contender at least for next season. They should have plenty of other opportunities like the Giro and Vuelta for a start where perhaps parcours would suit them more anyway.

 

[AlexNYC]

Re: Re:

The new "Great British GC Hope(s)" on the "marquee" British team ?? With the British media being what it is, that can be an awful lot of hype to live with and live up to.

Top billing ?? Isn't that a little premature ?? GC for one weeks tours - yes, Adam has won Tour of Turkey (a well rated sub WT event) and they've both shown they can contend/top 10 at WT one-weekers but that's still a big gap to showing whether they're likely to be contenders over 3 weeks. Adam has finished one and Simon yet to do so. At this point, neither are anywhere near the TTin level of most major GT contenders. Both have put in good TT performances this season but these have been uphill TTs rather than flat where they still have major room for improvement

One day races - it's more a case of getting the experience and knowledge of these races at this point of their careers. Either or both may become contenders for Ardennes type classics but realistically that's at least a few years in the future.

A SKY move would most certainly be a massive boost to their bank balances and could also be commercially lucrative in their home market. It could be the right move for them. However, the hype can turn poisonous should they be seen not to live up to expectations. Loading them with top billing is NOT something I feel a positive mood at this time.

When I wrote "top billing", I meant that they would probably get preferential treatment by the team when deciding who the leaders are for whatever races they are selected for. So, e.g., for a race such as Pais Vasco, either of the brothers would get to go for GC ahead of someone like Henao. In a sport like cycling, it would be difficult for a team like Sky not to consider the marketing angle when making this type of decisions.

Of course, that wouldn't impact someone like Froome, at least not directly. But I would bet that if they prove to be really good GT riders, Froome's status would also be in danger.

 

[TMP402]

As someone who hopes they do well and have good careers, I would avoid Sky for another 4-5 seasons until Froome is no longer the main rider for whom the team is built around. If I was them I would continue with Orica, or if necessary move to a team that offers them the right balance between capable support and undisputed leadership opportunities. In that case, Trek or a post-Rodriguez Katusha might present good opportunities.

 

[DBotero]

The brothers appears they been already selected for the TDF team.Nice opportunity to grab a stage win or maybe some good GC positions.But important for them will be to finish the race,everything else is a bonus
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/yates-t ... -de-france

 

[dirkprovin]

If we are to take that report as "Gospel" then it would appear that they resisted the Sky offer and are with OGE until end of 2016. Given that Gerrans' schedule has been adjusted to ride the Giro, it will be very interesting to see OGE's final lineups for both Giro AND Tour. There is a TTT in both so one suspects that they will tailor at least some selections with this in mind given the team's emphasis on this discipline. Suspect Matthews will only ride halfway/two thirds of Giro if he's going to ride Tour.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

If we are to take that report as "Gospel" then it would appear that they resisted the Sky offer and are with OGE until end of 2016. Given that Gerrans' schedule has been adjusted to ride the Giro, it will be very interesting to see OGE's final lineups for both Giro AND Tour. There is a TTT in both so one suspects that they will tailor at least some selections with this in mind given the team's emphasis on this discipline. Suspect Matthews will only ride halfway/two thirds of Giro if he's going to ride Tour.

they have been offered a 1 year extension AND a place in this year Tour squad. an offer you CAN'T refuse

 

[Pricey_sky]

Great news that they will be riding the Tour and they deserve the opportunity. Interesting that the article said they only signed a 1 year contract when they joined, I believed it was a 2-year deal and were offered a further years extension for 2016. Either way it looks like they will be staying with Greenedge, it's a very sensible decision at this stage of their careers.

I also agree with Matt White, Simon is a real outside chance for FW next week.

 

[TMP402]

Gerrans 35 during the Giro and barely any race days - onto Simon Yates as OGE's one-day man.

 

[postmanhat]

Bit disappointed that Adam won't be going for a GC placing at The Tour. It's a pretty good parcours for him apart from the cobbles.

Neither of them doing the Tour of Turkey now, so maybe Romandie?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Re:

Bit disappointed that Adam won't be going for a GC placing at The Tour. It's a pretty good parcours for him apart from the cobbles.

Neither of them doing the Tour of Turkey now, so maybe Romandie?

Adam has entered quite a few races now with someone else marked for GC and then done well on GC so I really wouldn't bank on the words of a DS this far out.

 

[search]

Re:

Given that Gerrans' schedule has been adjusted to ride the Giro, it will be very interesting to see OGE's final lineups for both Giro AND Tour. There is a TTT in both so one suspects that they will tailor at least some selections with this in mind given the team's emphasis on this discipline.

Tuft (I think) said a couple of weeks ago that they already were preparing specifically for the Giro TTT, so I guess they will basically send their WC team + Gerrans, Matthews and Santaromita/Chaves to Italy.

 

[greenedge]

Chaves is down to ride the Giro.
With Adam targeting GC at the TDF, he never has before at a 3 week race, while the ITT would hurt him. Furthermore he'll have a lack of mountain support, so I think he can't get a top 10. He could top 20, which would be a good learning experience.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Re: Re:

Bit disappointed that Adam won't be going for a GC placing at The Tour. It's a pretty good parcours for him apart from the cobbles.

Neither of them doing the Tour of Turkey now, so maybe Romandie?

Adam has entered quite a few races now with someone else marked for GC and then done well on GC so I really wouldn't bank on the words of a DS this far out.

Tour of Turkey is a prime example. His brother was supposed to be team leader, but broke his collarbone the day before they climbed Emali. Yates came second on that MTF before winning the second MTF and having a good gap over the leader Taramae to take the jersey for the rest of the race.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Interesting in that interview it's mentioned that Orica was splitting them up a lot more this year, if Adam is ok I wondered if perhaps we would see 1 at Turkey and the other going to Romandie?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Re:

Interesting in that interview it's mentioned that Orica was splitting them up a lot more this year, if Adam is ok I wondered if perhaps we would see 1 at Turkey and the other going to Romandie?

Simon down for Romandie and neither at Turkey. Hopefully Adam's finger is OK for CaliforneyeA

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Interesting in that interview it's mentioned that Orica was splitting them up a lot more this year, if Adam is ok I wondered if perhaps we would see 1 at Turkey and the other going to Romandie?

Simon down for Romandie and neither at Turkey. Hopefully Adam's finger is OK for CaliforneyeA

Are Orica doing Cali this year? didn't see them mentioned on the provisional list of teams.

 

[trevim]

Re:

Bit disappointed that Adam won't be going for a GC placing at The Tour. It's a pretty good parcours for him apart from the cobbles.

Neither of them doing the Tour of Turkey now, so maybe Romandie?

Who cares for a top10 really? Much better for him to enjoy the freedom he has while he's still relatively unknown in the peloton and go for stage wins and maybe the KOM jersey. Top10 in GC should be easy in a few years no need bother with it now

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Interesting in that interview it's mentioned that Orica was splitting them up a lot more this year, if Adam is ok I wondered if perhaps we would see 1 at Turkey and the other going to Romandie?

Simon down for Romandie and neither at Turkey. Hopefully Adam's finger is OK for CaliforneyeA

Are Orica doing Cali this year? didn't see them mentioned on the provisional list of teams.

No, they didn't get an invite. However, Drapac (an AUS Pro Conti team of moderate strength and attainments) HAS got an invite.

Bit disappointed that Adam won't be going for a GC placing at The Tour. It's a pretty good parcours for him apart from the cobbles.

Neither of them doing the Tour of Turkey now, so maybe Romandie?

Neither of the Yates' are anywhere near GT GC contention at this point. Whilst they could perform reasonably well in an uphill ITT; they are otherwise significantly below the ITT level of almost all major GC contenders. Simon is yet to finish a GT. Both had significant problems last year hanging onto the main peleton when "the hammer was dropped". I think they'll be given "licence" to stage-hunt at this year's GT's; that's probably the most realistic option for "where they're currently at".

 

[Pricey_sky]

The flaw in your argument is that there is hardly any iTT at the Tour this year, plus there is a TTT this year where as we know Oricas are amongst the strongest. The big unknown is how he can fare over 3 weeks of tough racing, so far they have done well in 1 week races.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

The flaw in your argument is that there is hardly any iTT at the Tour this year, plus there is a TTT this year where as we know Oricas are amongst the strongest. The big unknown is how he can fare over 3 weeks of tough racing, so far they have done well in 1 week races.

That IS the case for this years TdF; but my point referred to GTs in general which will usually have significantly more. With regards to OGE & TTTs; that is indeed the case but their selection will most likely weaken the line-up quite significantly for this stage. If they are to be the "protected species" for GC purposes; they can't "drop them" along the way and compete for the win but will rather have to slow it down and allow them to tag along as best they can. They may have a similar issue at Giro or Vuelta with Chaves; much will depend on how much emphasis they will stress on these GT TTTs OR on any particular GC aspirations ?

 

[Pricey_sky]

I think its wise to come out at this point and say 'go for stage wins' as it takes the pressure off them. I have a feeling they will give Adam a free role, maybe see how he fares climbing with the best day in, day out. If he has a bad day then he can always go stage hunting in the final week with Simon. Let's not forget they are still only 22, they will surely improve their iTT with age especially should they join a more GT orientated team in the coming years.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

I think its wise to come out at this point and say 'go for stage wins' as it takes the pressure off them. I have a feeling they will give Adam a free role, maybe see how he fares climbing with the best day in, day out. If he has a bad day then he can always go stage hunting in the final week with Simon. Let's not forget they are still only 22, they will surely improve their iTT with age especially should they join a more GT orientated team in the coming years.

With this, I heartily concur. Hopefully, they may've done some TTT training with the OGE boys as, whilst TTT is only alternate years in TdF, it is included in most Giro & Vuelta and becoming efficient in this discipline certainly won't hurt them.