Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

[postmanhat]

Looked full of beans today. Shame he didn't attack earlier, but I suppose he's still suffering a bit of vertigo at times.

I wonder who/if Orica will send as support riders for the Tour?

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

Pretty good. Reminds me of Andy Schleck, getting good GC results at a young age. Not as talented of course, but still

Definitely a more well-rounded rider, though.

Steady. Andy's the only rider this century to win the yellow jersey and a monument. That's pretty well rounded.

Not really, thats just tremendous climbing ability. He was a fantastic talent, but his tt was weak, he wasn't particularly fast or explosive and he was a poor descender.

 

[TMP402]

Looked full of beans today. Shame he didn't attack earlier, but I suppose he's still suffering a bit of vertigo at times.

I wonder who/if Orica will send as support riders for the Tour?

Chaves has the Giro in his legs so not ideal but could spend the first week doing nothing, otherwise possible Meyer, and maybe just about Weening. AKA pretty much only Adam will be supporting Simon, and Simon's potential achievements will be all the more impressive for that.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Looked full of beans today. Shame he didn't attack earlier, but I suppose he's still suffering a bit of vertigo at times.

I wonder who/if Orica will send as support riders for the Tour?

Chaves has the Giro in his legs so not ideal but could spend the first week doing nothing, otherwise possible Meyer, and maybe just about Weening. AKA pretty much only Adam will be supporting Simon, and Simon's potential achievements will be all the more impressive for that.

I don't think Adam is going along to carry his brother's backpack.

Fortunately, neither of them ride in a way which requires much support and they're very unlikely to be in a situation where the burden of work falls on OGE,

 

[Pricey_sky]

Orica have played it smart with the twins so far, keeping expectations down and just letting them race. It makes sense for that to stay the same during the tour. Just let them ride and see how they go, if one is having an off day they can always support the other and vice versa.

If they lose lots of time on a stage there are plenty of stages for them to target during the final week as well as the first week's hills suiting them too.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Pretty good. Reminds me of Andy Schleck, getting good GC results at a young age. Not as talented of course, but still

I would say he is more talented than Andy Schleck.

 

[Poursuivant]

I don't get the title to this thread

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

Two British riders in jersey's in Paris maybe?

If you want to be 'out there' there's an alternate Universe where they get all 4 without anything too ridiculous happening.

I would imagine that Quintana has the white jersey wrapped up, unless he crashes.

Is he still eligible?

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Pretty good. Reminds me of Andy Schleck, getting good GC results at a young age. Not as talented of course, but still

I would say he is more talented than Andy Schleck.

Well it's not the hardest thing in the world to compare their respective records on PCS at this point.

---

The number in brackets for each stage race is the rider's highest individual stage placing.

Andy's first year (41 race days):
W/PT: 63rd Giro di Lombardia, 118th Overall Catalunya (26th), DNF GP Ouest France
.HC: 9th Overall Four Days of Dunkirk (4th), 14th Overall Tour de Wallonie (12th)
Top 30 in .1 races: 7th Grand Prix de Wallonie, 12th Rund um Koln, 14th Overall Ster Elektrotoer (6th), 26th Overall Tour of Austria (19th)

Simon's first year (66 race days):
GT: DNF Tour de France (21st)
WT: 12th Overall Pais Vasco (16th), 22nd GP de Quebec, 36th GP de Montreal, 42nd Overall Tour of Beijing (12th), 44th Overall Paris-Nice (15th), 78th Fleche Wallonne, 79th Vatenfall, 137th Gent-Wevelgem, DNF San Sebastian, DNF Giro di Lombardia
.HC: 29th GP canton d'Argovie, 55th London-Surrey Classic, DNF Brabantse Pijl, DNF Tour of Turkey (37th)
Top 30 in .1 races: 7th Overall/1st Youth Tour of Slovenia (5th), 13th Trofeo Serra de Tramuntana, 19th Overall/1st Mountains Tour of Alberta (28th), 27th G.P. Camaiore
WC/NC: 3rd NC, DNF WC
---
Andy's second year before the TDF (24 race days):
W/PT: 45th Overall Tour de Suisse (19th), 74th Overall Catalunya (43rd)
.HC: 24th Overall Tour of Luxembourg (19th), 58th Milano-Torino
Top 30 in .1 races: 11th GP Chiasso

Simon's second year before the TDF (33 race days):
WT: 5th Overall/1st Youth Criterium du Dauphine (2nd), 5th Overall Pais Vasco (3rd), 6th Overall Tour de Romandie (2nd (TTT)/9th), 29th Overall Paris-Nice (17th), 37th Milan-San Remo, 39th Liege-Bastone-Liege, 62nd Fleche Wallonne,
.HC: Has not started any
Top 30 in .1 races: None (61st Drome Classic and 65th Sud Ardeche)

---

Simon surely has the better results so far.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Two British riders in jersey's in Paris maybe?

If you want to be 'out there' there's an alternate Universe where they get all 4 without anything too ridiculous happening.

I would imagine that Quintana has the white jersey wrapped up, unless he crashes.

Is he still eligible?

He was born Feb 3rd 1990. Jan 1st 1990 is the cut-off point I believe, so yes.

 

[saunaking]

Re: Re:

Two British riders in jersey's in Paris maybe?

If you want to be 'out there' there's an alternate Universe where they get all 4 without anything too ridiculous happening.

I would imagine that Quintana has the white jersey wrapped up, unless he crashes.

Is he still eligible?

He was born Feb 3rd 1990. Jan 1st 1990 is the cut-off point I believe, so yes.

God, the white jersey rules are so stupid.
You should be elgible for white in any race ONLY in your first apperance, certainly excluded once you have won it already.
How stupid Quintana in the white jersey when he won it two years ago and wansnt even here last
year

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Pretty good. Reminds me of Andy Schleck, getting good GC results at a young age. Not as talented of course, but still

I would say he is more talented than Andy Schleck.

Well it's not the hardest thing in the world to compare their respective records on PCS at this point.

---

The number in brackets for each stage race is the rider's highest individual stage placing.

Andy's first year (41 race days):
W/PT: 63rd Giro di Lombardia, 118th Overall Catalunya (26th), DNF GP Ouest France
.HC: 9th Overall Four Days of Dunkirk (4th), 14th Overall Tour de Wallonie (12th)
Top 30 in .1 races: 7th Grand Prix de Wallonie, 12th Rund um Koln, 14th Overall Ster Elektrotoer (6th), 26th Overall Tour of Austria (19th)

Simon's first year (66 race days):
GT: DNF Tour de France (21st)
WT: 12th Overall Pais Vasco (16th), 22nd GP de Quebec, 36th GP de Montreal, 42nd Overall Tour of Beijing (12th), 44th Overall Paris-Nice (15th), 78th Fleche Wallonne, 79th Vatenfall, 137th Gent-Wevelgem, DNF San Sebastian, DNF Giro di Lombardia
.HC: 29th GP canton d'Argovie, 55th London-Surrey Classic, DNF Brabantse Pijl, DNF Tour of Turkey (37th)
Top 30 in .1 races: 7th Overall/1st Youth Tour of Slovenia (5th), 13th Trofeo Serra de Tramuntana, 19th Overall/1st Mountains Tour of Alberta (28th), 27th G.P. Camaiore
WC/NC: 3rd NC, DNF WC
---
Andy's second year before the TDF (24 race days):
W/PT: 45th Overall Tour de Suisse (19th), 74th Overall Catalunya (43rd)
.HC: 24th Overall Tour of Luxembourg (19th), 58th Milano-Torino
Top 30 in .1 races: 11th GP Chiasso

Simon's second year before the TDF (33 race days):
WT: 5th Overall/1st Youth Criterium du Dauphine (2nd), 5th Overall Pais Vasco (3rd), 6th Overall Tour de Romandie (2nd (TTT)/9th), 29th Overall Paris-Nice (17th), 37th Milan-San Remo, 39th Liege-Bastone-Liege, 62nd Fleche Wallonne,
.HC: Has not started any
Top 30 in .1 races: None (61st Drome Classic and 65th Sud Ardeche)

---

Simon surely has the better results so far.

Andy only turned 20 years old in his first season, though. Simon turned 22.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Andy only turned 20 years old in his first season, though. Simon turned 22.

That's true, although is arguably of limited significance. Peraud and Pinot have had pretty closely matched careers, yet Peraud turned 33 in his first pro year, and Pinot only 20.

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

Pretty good. Reminds me of Andy Schleck, getting good GC results at a young age. Not as talented of course, but still

I would say he is more talented than Andy Schleck.

Well it's not the hardest thing in the world to compare their respective records on PCS at this point.

---

The number in brackets for each stage race is the rider's highest individual stage placing.

Andy's first year (41 race days):
W/PT: 63rd Giro di Lombardia, 118th Overall Catalunya (26th), DNF GP Ouest France
.HC: 9th Overall Four Days of Dunkirk (4th), 14th Overall Tour de Wallonie (12th)
Top 30 in .1 races: 7th Grand Prix de Wallonie, 12th Rund um Koln, 14th Overall Ster Elektrotoer (6th), 26th Overall Tour of Austria (19th)

Simon's first year (66 race days):
GT: DNF Tour de France (21st)
WT: 12th Overall Pais Vasco (16th), 22nd GP de Quebec, 36th GP de Montreal, 42nd Overall Tour of Beijing (12th), 44th Overall Paris-Nice (15th), 78th Fleche Wallonne, 79th Vatenfall, 137th Gent-Wevelgem, DNF San Sebastian, DNF Giro di Lombardia
.HC: 29th GP canton d'Argovie, 55th London-Surrey Classic, DNF Brabantse Pijl, DNF Tour of Turkey (37th)
Top 30 in .1 races: 7th Overall/1st Youth Tour of Slovenia (5th), 13th Trofeo Serra de Tramuntana, 19th Overall/1st Mountains Tour of Alberta (28th), 27th G.P. Camaiore
WC/NC: 3rd NC, DNF WC
---
Andy's second year before the TDF (24 race days):
W/PT: 45th Overall Tour de Suisse (19th), 74th Overall Catalunya (43rd)
.HC: 24th Overall Tour of Luxembourg (19th), 58th Milano-Torino
Top 30 in .1 races: 11th GP Chiasso

Simon's second year before the TDF (33 race days):
WT: 5th Overall/1st Youth Criterium du Dauphine (2nd), 5th Overall Pais Vasco (3rd), 6th Overall Tour de Romandie (2nd (TTT)/9th), 29th Overall Paris-Nice (17th), 37th Milan-San Remo, 39th Liege-Bastone-Liege, 62nd Fleche Wallonne,
.HC: Has not started any
Top 30 in .1 races: None (61st Drome Classic and 65th Sud Ardeche)

---

Simon surely has the better results so far.

Good job on creating such a useless statistic.

Andy Schleck turned pro at 19 years of age and didn't ride much ( or at all?) as an u23. Of course he needed some time to adapt. He wasn't even turned 22 when he podiumed the freaking Giro d'Italia. Not to take anything away from Simon Yates, he is a great talent, but Andy Schleck was something else. Do you realistically see Simon Yates podiuming a GT this year or next year?

 

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

Andy only turned 20 years old in his first season, though. Simon turned 22.

That's true, although is arguably of limited significance. Peraud and Pinot have had pretty closely matched careers, yet Peraud turned 33 in his first pro year, and Pinot only 20.

No, its of huge signiticance. It matters big time with young athletes. And your Peraud example also doesn't work, as he turned pro age 33 on the road, but was a world class mountainbiker before.

If you want to compare young cyclists, look what they have done at the same age. And Andy finished the Giro 2nd and Lombardia 4th, things Yates didn't even come close to.

But Yates is also very talented, infact both of them of course.

 

[Metabolol]

I was talking about natural talent. Not the other kind.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Good first day, Simon beating Froome & Contador, loses 1 second to Nibali.

 

[Bushman]

Great ride by Simon Yates today.

The late starters clearly had worse wind conditions, though.

 

[postmanhat]

Re:

Good first day, Simon beating Froome & Contador, loses 1 second to Nibali.

Very good start!

IF he does ok on the cobbles, then the next 8 stages should also be good for him. Got caught out in the splits at the Nats, but will hopefully do better with a bit of protection today

 

[postmanhat]

3'28" for Adam
5'04" for Simon

Stage hunting only then?

 

[Ramon Koran]

Rather see them going for stages than an anonymous top 15.

 

[DBotero]

Both seems to be at 5'04".A stage win and finishing the race should be a realistic goal.

 

[Dog]

I wonder if we'll see them try to get into the break tomorrow.

 

[JRanton]

Orica weren't trying to protect them so they were serious when they said they were only here for stage wins.

 

[Billie]

Pretty good. Reminds me of Andy Schleck, getting good GC results at a young age. Not as talented of course, but still

I would say he is more talented than Andy Schleck.

Well it's not the hardest thing in the world to compare their respective records on PCS at this point.

---

The number in brackets for each stage race is the rider's highest individual stage placing.

Andy's first year (41 race days):
W/PT: 63rd Giro di Lombardia, 118th Overall Catalunya (26th), DNF GP Ouest France
.HC: 9th Overall Four Days of Dunkirk (4th), 14th Overall Tour de Wallonie (12th)
Top 30 in .1 races: 7th Grand Prix de Wallonie, 12th Rund um Koln, 14th Overall Ster Elektrotoer (6th), 26th Overall Tour of Austria (19th)

Simon's first year (66 race days):
GT: DNF Tour de France (21st)
WT: 12th Overall Pais Vasco (16th), 22nd GP de Quebec, 36th GP de Montreal, 42nd Overall Tour of Beijing (12th), 44th Overall Paris-Nice (15th), 78th Fleche Wallonne, 79th Vatenfall, 137th Gent-Wevelgem, DNF San Sebastian, DNF Giro di Lombardia
.HC: 29th GP canton d'Argovie, 55th London-Surrey Classic, DNF Brabantse Pijl, DNF Tour of Turkey (37th)
Top 30 in .1 races: 7th Overall/1st Youth Tour of Slovenia (5th), 13th Trofeo Serra de Tramuntana, 19th Overall/1st Mountains Tour of Alberta (28th), 27th G.P. Camaiore
WC/NC: 3rd NC, DNF WC
---
Andy's second year before the TDF (24 race days):
W/PT: 45th Overall Tour de Suisse (19th), 74th Overall Catalunya (43rd)
.HC: 24th Overall Tour of Luxembourg (19th), 58th Milano-Torino
Top 30 in .1 races: 11th GP Chiasso

Simon's second year before the TDF (33 race days):
WT: 5th Overall/1st Youth Criterium du Dauphine (2nd), 5th Overall Pais Vasco (3rd), 6th Overall Tour de Romandie (2nd (TTT)/9th), 29th Overall Paris-Nice (17th), 37th Milan-San Remo, 39th Liege-Bastone-Liege, 62nd Fleche Wallonne,
.HC: Has not started any
Top 30 in .1 races: None (61st Drome Classic and 65th Sud Ardeche)

---

Simon surely has the better results so far.

Missed this but it's quite stupid so deserves a (late) response.

First off all as already mentioned by others Andy never raced U23 cause he turned pro at age 19. Andy was 32 years younger than Simon in the results you compare. Another fact you did not mention at all is that Andy was riding at the best team in the world on all different terrains. The Yates brothers have had a free role in any race they've entered cause they their team doesn't care about what they specialise in. This is very different from Andy who also had to do domestique work in his first season. In the Tour of Georgia (which you didn't include in your result list) he was working for Julich assisting him in a favourites group of about 10 riders strong including Armstront, Levi and Landis when Julich flatted. Andy gave his bike to Bobby, waited for the team car, rode back to the lead group on Julichs bike, switched bikes and brought Julich back to the front. Riis kept him away from the big pro tour races and the mystique around Andy growed when Frank kept telling over and over to everyone how his brother is far more talented. He hadn't even reached the age that yates turned pro when he got second in the Giro.
For the next 5 years he was one of the two best climbers in the world every year.

A lazy person who'd rather spend his life fishing then riding his bike. Riders who can match his talents don't come around very often