Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[sittingbison]

It is incredibly naive to think that any Tour winner in the last 20 years was clean.

Evans won last year. Look at the top ten compared to previous 5 years

 

[blackcat]

I hope you don't mind if I correct this. Bernhard Kohl finished third overall on GC at the Dauphiné Libéré in 2006.

Race details can be found here : http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/dauphinelibere06/?id=results/dauphinelibere067

Look at the final GC. Quite a number on dopers in there hey !

thanks. I was sketchy. I think he never got selection for the Gerolsteiner team in July that year, and had to wait for his Tour debut. I cant even remember if who he rode for to get third in the Tour cos he was in the polka dots. It musta been Gerolsteiner, cos I dont think he got to ride for anyone else.

You know Stefan Matschiner stuff up his final blood transfusion for that Tour. If the transfusion had not clotted, a chance Kohl would win that Tour. Then there is a question if they decide to take him down for the Myacera (Cera) positive. I dont think they would have ripped it off him after Landis' fiasco.

 

[Ferminal]

Evans won last year. Look at the top ten compared to previous 5 years

Evans
Schleck - Doper
Schleck - Doper
Voeckler - Doper
(Contador)
Sanchez - ?
Cunego - Doper
Basso - Doper
Danielson - Doper
Peraud - ?
Rolland - Doper

 

[webvan]

Why are you calling Voeckler, Rolland, Schleck junior and Cunego dopers?

 

[hrotha]

Evans
Schleck - Doper
Schleck - Doper
Voeckler - Doper
(Contador)
Sanchez - ?
Cunego - Doper
Basso - Doper
Danielson - Doper
Peraud - ?
Rolland - Doper

How can you say Voeckler and Rolland are proven dopers and still have just a question mark next to Samu's name?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Wasn't this the stage after the one where he shows someone a broken helmet from his accident mid-stage?

Being a Cadel fan, I was very interested in his post-race interview where he said - what's the point of chasing when you catch Sastre you get one-twoed by the Schlecks.

When you consider he's built himself for TTs first, climbing second, it makes far more sense to conserve on the mountain and ride below red lining and then do the best TT you can. A much more cost-effective strategy.

He could have caught Sastre, but then the Schlecks are getting a free ride and can help each other. Plus Evans has burnt more energy. Given it was from the bottom of the climb, it might take half the climb to catch Sastre. Then the Schlecks go. Evans has less energy than riding as he did, so the Schlecks can put more time into him for the second half - possibly even as much time as Sastre going from the bottom and riding solo.

Evans is not dumb. You don't get his palmares from being dumb.

To my way of thinking, it's just as likely Ferrari is calling Cadel dumb because he doesn't dope. Think about it. What's the most reliable way to win the Tour? What is the method Ferrari relies on?

 

[Ferminal]

How can you say Voeckler and Rolland are proven dopers and still have just a question mark next to Samu's name?

Samu is as clean as Evans so it would be unfair to label him a doper whilst we are still undecided about the subject.

Peraud I simply have no idea.

 

[hrotha]

Samu is as clean as Evans so it would be unfair to label him a doper whilst we are still undecided about the subject.

Peraud I simply have no idea.

Samu actually tested positive as an amateur.

 

[Ferminal]

Ooh, never knew that. What for?

 

[webvan]

Unlike Voeckler and Rolland, so why would anyone call them dopers? It makes no sense.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

actually, in defense of Evans and his wife here.

And Chiara is a little like Elisa Basso, always seen around races. She knows what the culture is.

When Chiara speaks about meeting Cadel she says she did not follow cycling at all. Do you mean always around races since she met Cadel?

When Rob Arnold publishes Evan's blood parameters and his hematocrit, I believe the numbers, and there is no blood manipulation nor plasma expanders obfuscating the real numbers.

Where?

 

[blackcat]

To my way of thinking, it's just as likely Ferrari is calling Cadel dumb because he doesn't dope. Think about it. What's the most reliable way to win the Tour? What is the method Ferrari relies on?

I would agree with this. I think Evans only did recovery therapy, and maintained his hormone levels. I have no proof, and very tenuous reasoning for my position.

Since Ferrari's MO is blood doping, and Evans was reticent about taking that plunge, Ferrari saw him as a weak athlete, and weak constitution who was not psychologically predisposed to winning. Guess he was proved wrong.

Evans did perhaps, the minimum amount of supplementation you could possibly do and achieve a ten year career on the road in Europe. But I think Evans went back to Ferrari after Mapei, though I do not know how this conflicts with a athlete coach relationship with Sassi.

 

[blackcat]

When Chiara speaks about meeting Cadel she says she did not follow cycling at all. Do you mean always around races since she met Cadel?

Since meeting him. I would believe it is just about bringing the dog to races and having that home spun atmosphere. Cos they are different types, and dont "do" the cycling crowd. Every other athlete has the podium girl type wife, and a hangers on entourage. Evans does not. He is not a cycling guy. When he retires, unless he needs a job and income, I see him walking away and not returning. Like Ullrich

Where?

well, Arnold wrote in his book, the co-written autobiography/biography, that Evans hematocrit never got above 43.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Apparently, the sport will never be clean. So why do we watch?

What do you mean, "we", pale face?

 

[cineteq]

How can you say Voeckler and Rolland are proven dopers and still have just a question mark next to Samu's name?

I second this.

Btw, Ferminal, Sanchez said:
"I think Lance has not tested positive throughout his career, there is no need to sanction him''

 

[blackcat]

Never knew he tested positive either but his hole comments on the LA affair stink.

cos he has not given a positive test.

oh, you were talking Sammy Sanchez? ok then. thought you meant CE

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I second this.

Btw, Ferminal, Sanchez said:
"I think Lance has not tested positive throughout his career, there is no need to sanction him''

How about Voekler's visage when he crosses the line after 200km in a breakaway - the last bit of it solo, riding away from a beanpole, 35km/hr, multiple cat 1 and HC climbs? Like he'd been out on a coffee shop ride.

Not normal.

 

[sittingbison]

Evans
Schleck - Doper
Schleck - Doper
Voeckler - Doper
(Contador)
Sanchez - ?
Cunego - Doper
Basso - Doper
Danielson - Doper
Peraud - ?
Rolland - Doper

Ferminal I already listed this. As I explained to garlic ho, I although we extremely strongly suspect some riders of doping like say Menchov, I only highlighted the KNOWN dopers.

Of more interest on this particular list is not who was doping (perhaps all of them lol), but who they are. Compare that lot with the previous five years. It's a sudden change in the "usual suspects"

 

[Ferminal]

Ferminal I already listed this. As I explained to garlic ho, I although we extremely strongly suspect some riders of doping like say Menchov, I only highlighted the KNOWN dopers.

Of more interest on this particular list is not who was doping (perhaps all of them lol), but who they are. Compare that lot with the previous five years. It's a sudden change in the "usual suspects"

In what way?

The Schlecks and Contador are still there, Samu, and a token Slipstreamer. The Italians, at least Cunego is a surprise but I'm not sure that is a good thing given his history. Several who finished top10 in 2010 were not able to defend due to crashes or absence.

No usual suspects from the decade before, but they were already on the way out in 09/10.

 

[blackcat]

Ferminal I already listed this. As I explained to garlic ho, I although we extremely strongly suspect some riders of doping like say Menchov, I only highlighted the KNOWN dopers.

Of more interest on this particular list is not who was doping (perhaps all of them lol), but who they are. Compare that lot with the previous five years. It's a sudden change in the "usual suspects"

but Menchov was going to the Humanplasma autologous blood transfusion clinic in Wien, like the other Rabobank riders. Fair to give him a tick as a Clinic proven doper. Not a court of law proof indeed, but meets the threshold here.

 

[cineteq]

How about Voekler's visage when he crosses the line after 200km in a breakaway - the last bit of it solo, riding away from a beanpole, 35km/hr, multiple cat 1 and HC climbs? Like he'd been out on a coffee shop ride.

Not normal.

Very funny. Good laugh before I go to bed.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Read Tyler's book. There were a couple of years he raced the tour without blood boost and finished barely in the top 100. When he doped, he was a top 10 contender. There are no clean riders in the top 20 for the last two decades in the Tour de France.

Maybe Tyler simply isn't a natural GT-rider but the doping allowed him to masquerade as one?

If you were to list the riders from the past 2 decades most likely to be clean, David Moncoutié, Charly Mottet and Greg Lemond would be near the top. The evidence for Moncoutié's cleanliness is virtually identical to the evidence for Christophe Bassons being clean.

 

[blackcat]

In what way?

The Schlecks and Contador are still there, Samu, and a token Slipstreamer. The Italians, at least Cunego is a surprise but I'm not sure that is a good thing given his history. Several who finished top10 in 2010 were not able to defend due to crashes or absence.

No usual suspects from the decade before, but they were already on the way out in 09/10.

Voecklers head taking on all physical symptoms of hgh use. Moral of the story. If you have a large forehead, dont take hgh. It makes it larger, and you look like a bobble head doll, especially as a skinny 140lb cyclist.

 

[blackcat]

How about Voekler's visage when he crosses the line after 200km in a breakaway - the last bit of it solo, riding away from a beanpole, 35km/hr, multiple cat 1 and HC climbs? Like he'd been out on a coffee shop ride.

Not normal.

but the housewives love it.

Do you know how many French marriages Voeckler has saved, by being the subject of fantasy since Virenque's retirment.

He is the fantasy of the french housewife engaged in carnal knowledge

 

[sittingbison]

Like I said in the list of reasons for and against, the only real argument that Evans doped is his performance over the years against known dopers. It's the best argument, almost irrefutable. There are counter arguments, that he obviously struggled, that he rode to his strengths and conserved his weaknesses, that he IS physiologically gifted. This is the reason it's not as simple as "open your eyes". I certainly had my eyes open 2006-2008 and did not see Lance (doped) or Landis (supercharged stage) or even Contador smooth as silk, I saw a guy on the rivet every day, busting a boiler just to keep up, getting dropped when the real pressure came on and making up time when he could. Now this is not proof of anything, just that it is NOT as simple as saying they all did it therefore he did to.

To me this is the true tragedy of it all, that the essence of competition has been corrupted and it is not certain a guy like this deserves his accolades. He might be one of the greatest champions ever, he might be a great rider made champion with drugs, it is unlikely he is a donkey/racehorse.