Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[Ferminal]

He lives locally, Italy/Suisse, same as Evans.

I think pretty much anyone who goes through the AIS program gets access when needed throughout their career.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

He lives locally, Italy/Suisse, same as Evans.

I think pretty much anyone who goes through the AIS program gets access when needed throughout their career.

This is the page I expected him to appear on: http://www.mapeisport.it/SiAffidano.asp

Found him on the Italian version of the staff page.

 

[blackcat]

Thought Rogers was working with Sassi circa 2010.



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sassi-talks-about-basso-evans-and-the-zoncolan

2010 was his best season statistically until this year.

HTC may have had a person who handled Rogers up until 10. Then he did not feel comfortable having defacto UK Cycling coaches, manage him. So he went back to Mapei. Stands to reason

 

[blackcat]

Agreed entirely. There seems to be a motivation by some very persistent posters in this thread that making a huge repetitive noise (now even with large bolded type) with no new facts/observations is going to get people to eventually believe Cadel is also a doper.

Repetitive.

Cadel is a very smart guy, as is his wife, and both are great down to earth people. His quiet behind the scenes philanthropy work stands as a testimony to the guy. He is a true role model, within cycling and outside it in the communities he chooses to represent himself.

And not sure what the motivation is for these posts. Is it because team Sky/Wiggins is receiving a lot of flak? Is it because if no-one is clean then everyone can be tarred with the same brush and doping is not so bad after all? Or is it because his clean performances are upsetting to fans of riders who "have backed" the wrong horses in the past? All understandable reasons but suggest you do a bit of background reading AND self analysis before jumping on the Cadel=doper band wagon.

no one is beyond suspicion, and rightly so.

And if you involve yourself with Ferrari, beyond a mere test, more stupidity to you. Does anyone believe Rogers went to Ferrari for the training plans, that seemed to coincide with his chrono world champs, and his 10th in the Tour at TMobile, albeit he had to cancel the relationship that year.

And look at the targets on Sky's chest.

Evans has never ever seen any skepticism or allegations pointed at him. When everyone in the head of field in the final week of the Tour, have been engaged in actions that contravened the supposed UCI regulations.

Evans seems to have a halo. And it is quite silly to raise the philsanthropic acts to make out he does not deserve this spotlight. No one here seeks to take his liberty. And the individuals are victims of a dysfunctional system and negative culture. I consistently say, the individuals should not be judged thru a morality lens.

Your post does not have merit.

 

[Jalina]

Evans was a mountain biker then, who wanted to move to road racing. Tony Rominger insisted Evans test with Ferrari, and at the time Evans probably didn't even know who Ferrari was. If that one test is all there is, it doesn't amount to much. In fact, it doesn't amount to anything.

EDIT: Let's face it, if Evans is guilty of anything, it's not winning nearly as much as he should have. Granted he's held his own among (some) dopers, but nothing about him, his style, or his history, says doping. The fact he's in the pro peloton at all, and a GC rider, is really the only suspicious thing about him.

I'm Australian, I'm aware of Cadel's history.

I agree with blackcat, I find it pretty hard to believe that he wouldn't have had any idea about Ferrari at that point.

 

[Maxiton]

Agreed entirely. There seems to be a motivation by some very persistent posters in this thread that making a huge repetitive noise (now even with large bolded type) with no new facts/observations is going to get people to eventually believe Cadel is also a doper.

Repetitive.

Cadel is a very smart guy, as is his wife, and both are great down to earth people. His quiet behind the scenes philanthropy work stands as a testimony to the guy. He is a true role model, within cycling and outside it in the communities he chooses to represent himself.

And not sure what the motivation is for these posts. Is it because team Sky/Wiggins is receiving a lot of flak? Is it because if no-one is clean then everyone can be tarred with the same brush and doping is not so bad after all? Or is it because his clean performances are upsetting to fans of riders who "have backed" the wrong horses in the past? All understandable reasons but suggest you do a bit of background reading AND self analysis before jumping on the Cadel=doper band wagon.

I just want to make it clear that despite your having my statement quoted in your response, your words are directed at the Cadel-is-a-doper posters and not at me.

 

[blackcat]

Is doper

Is bad

/sarcasm.

 

[Ferminal]

Is doper

Is bad

/sarcasm.

Hates puppies.

 

[Maxiton]

I'm Australian, I'm aware of Cadel's history.

I agree with blackcat, I find it pretty hard to believe that he wouldn't have had any idea about Ferrari at that point.

Honestly, who gives a rat's if he knew of Ferrari? That was my hyperbolic suggestion, not Evans'. If he wanted to move to the road and his manager told him, you have to be tested by this guy, what would you expect him to do? I'm sure Ferrari offered his services to Cadel. Obviously Cadel turned him down, thus earning the sobriquet "Dumb" from Ferrari. Where's the problem here?

 

[blackcat]

Honestly, who gives a rat's if he knew of Ferrari? That was my hyperbolic suggestion, not Evans'. If he wanted to move to the road and his manager told him, you have to be tested by this guy, what would you expect him to do? I'm sure Ferrari offered his services to Cadel. Obviously Cadel turned him down, thus earning the sobriquet "Dumb" from Ferrari. Where's the problem here?

NO. Not obviously. Ask Cyclingheroes René Schuijlenburg if he confirmed he had professional relations with Ferrari when he was at Telekom. That is what I was told in email. Ask Thomas Frei about Evans.

If you have sorted that, come back to me, and tell me what the position is. If there is denials by Frei, I would be happy. And Rene was about 2003. So thats along time back.

NB. Just cos I say/write it, DOES NOT MAKE IT SO. This may not be the case, it may not be the truth. I concede that is a material possibility I have my facts wrong. But I have heard that it is NOT obvious he has turned his back on Ferrari post that test.

I might be wrong. But because you say "obviously the case" does not make it obvious. It does not make it the case. Very juvenile argumentative position, appealing to empathy for a rider, who has enviable personal traits.

But we have been burnt in cycling

character traits, and being of good character =/= axiomatically make one's fave rider clean, and not doping, does it.

my position is, all GC riders are on something. You can make it about Evans, but this is a universal stance I have taken.

 

[Jalina]

Agreed entirely. There seems to be a motivation by some very persistent posters in this thread that making a huge repetitive noise (now even with large bolded type) with no new facts/observations is going to get people to eventually believe Cadel is also a doper.

Repetitive.

Cadel is a very smart guy, as is his wife, and both are great down to earth people. His quiet behind the scenes philanthropy work stands as a testimony to the guy. He is a true role model, within cycling and outside it in the communities he chooses to represent himself.

And not sure what the motivation is for these posts. Is it because team Sky/Wiggins is receiving a lot of flak? Is it because if no-one is clean then everyone can be tarred with the same brush and doping is not so bad after all? Or is it because his clean performances are upsetting to fans of riders who "have backed" the wrong horses in the past? All understandable reasons but suggest you do a bit of background reading AND self analysis before jumping on the Cadel=doper band wagon.

This is a strange post considering you are very active in the Sky thread where much of the discussion presented revolves around associations. In that thread, anyone who posted a response like the one above would immediately be labelled a fanboy.

I know you weren't addressing me because I haven't used bold , but for the record, I am Australian, I really enjoy Cadel (even if he is a bit boring), I don't like Sky, I dislike Froome, Wiggins sometimes makes me laugh but in general I don't really like him, BUT as a regular reader of the Clinic, I do find it perplexing, strange, amusing, etc, etc, etc.... that Cadel seems to get off pretty lightly around here when others get every single move questioned. Every single move.

The general tone is "all the top riders dope, you can't win a tour without doping.... oh unless you're Cadel."

I have never once said that I think Cadel is doping. Not once. I am genuinely interested in why the magnifying glass isn't focussed on Cadel the way it is focussed on others. It's a legitimate question. "Cos he's a nice guy" just doesn't cut it.

Surely people are entitled to ask questions and discuss links to known dodgy doctors, just as they do in Sky and other threads, without being accused of having ulterior motives.

 

[Maxiton]

NO. Not obviously. Ask Cyclingheroes René Schuijlenburg if he confirmed he had professional relations with Ferrari when he was at Telekom. That is what I was told in email. Ask Thomas Frei about Evans.

If you have sorted that, come back to me, and tell me what the position is. If there is denials by Frei, I would be happy. And Rene was about 2003. So thats along time back.

NB. Just cos I say/write it, DOES NOT MAKE IT SO. This may not be the case, it may not be the truth. I concede that is a material possibility I have my facts wrong. But I have heard that it is NOT obvious he has turned his back on Ferrari post that test.

I might be wrong. But because you say "obviously the case" does not make it obvious. It does not make it the case. Very juvenile argumentative position, appealing to empathy for a rider, who has enviable personal traits.

But we have been burnt in cycling

character traits, and being of good character =/= axiomatically make one's fave rider clean, and not doping, does it.

my position is, all GC riders are on something. You can make it about Evans, but this is a universal stance I have taken.

Is that all you've got? Nothing? Get back to us when you have something substantive. Or anything at all.

 

[blackcat]

Is that all you've got? Nothing? Get back to us when you have something substantive. Or anything at all.

Armstrong took about 13 years, and how many investigative journos were successful in bringing him down? Walsh, Ballester, none were successful.

I just responded to a poster in a personal message, I think Evans is a great champion and missed out on multiple GTs and Ardennes that he would have if the peloton was all clean. But this is not the subject of the thread. I think he is cleaner than all, going around at the pointy end of a GT in the third week.

But this does not automatically make him not doing something to get by. This is cycling.

 

[Maxiton]

Armstrong took about 13 years, and how many investigative journos were successful in bringing him down? Walsh, Ballester, none were successful.

I just responded to a poster in a personal message, I think Evans is a great champion and missed out on multiple GTs and Ardennes that he would have if the peloton was all clean. But this is not the subject of the thread. I think he is cleaner than all, going around at the pointy end of a GT in the third week.

But this does not automatically make him not doing something to get by. This is cycling.

I totally agree with this (as I've been saying all thread), so we have no argument.

 

[Jalina]

Honestly, who gives a rat's if he knew of Ferrari? That was my hyperbolic suggestion, not Evans'. If he wanted to move to the road and his manager told him, you have to be tested by this guy, what would you expect him to do? I'm sure Ferrari offered his services to Cadel. Obviously Cadel turned him down, thus earning the sobriquet "Dumb" from Ferrari. Where's the problem here?

If I was a clean athlete the last thing I'd be doing is associating myself with someone of Ferrari's reputation, that's what leaps out at me. I think we all agree that Cadel is neither naive nor stupid.

To the bold, why would it have to be this guy?

 

[sittingbison]

Jalina, the reason the spotlight isn't on Evans as much as say Wiggo is because there is hardly anything to look at. Even jimmy fingers said Sky couldn't have done a better job of looking guilty if they tried.

As has been observed numerous times, the Ferrari link is well known, clearly documented, but tenuous at best precisely BECAUSE of this. 2001, a very young man not a road pro, by manager Rominger (doper). Sure he would have heard about Ferrari, but this was before notoriety. As opposed to Dodger four years later AFTER the scandal and sanction, after Simeoni.

As an Aussie, you know as well as anyone that if it is shown he had FURTHER links to Ferrari, he will be totally destroyed by public Government and commercial backlash and cycling in Australia will be devastated.

I wod have suspected that some blogger sleuth would have by now uncovered any possible link to doping. After all he is last years TdF winner, only 3 years ago WC winner. Recent history, and because of his accolades, because of public perception of "clean", it would be a tremendous career making scoop.

 

[Maxiton]

If I was a clean athlete the last thing I'd be doing is associating myself with someone of Ferrari's reputation, that's what leaps out at me. I think we all agree that Cadel is neither naive nor stupid.

Easy to say now, but back then Ferrari was apparently the high priest of training and preparation in the world Evans wanted into: the pro road peloton. That was cycling. Ferrari's name didn't become a bad word until much later.

To the bold, why would it have to be this guy?

Because of what I just said, above. And because his manager said so. Back then, if your talents had Ferrari's stamp of approval you were probably in demand when the teams were waving around bank books.

 

[Jalina]

Jalina, the reason the spotlight isn't on Evans as much as say Wiggo is because there is hardly anything to look at. Even jimmy fingers said Sky couldn't have done a better job of looking guilty if they tried.

As has been observed numerous times, the Ferrari link is well known, clearly documented, but tenuous at best precisely BECAUSE of this. 2001, a very young man not a road pro, by manager Rominger (doper). Sure he would have heard about Ferrari, but this was before notoriety. As opposed to Dodger four years later AFTER the scandal and sanction, after Simeoni.

As an Aussie, you know as well as anyone that if it is shown he had FURTHER links to Ferrari, he will be totally destroyed by public Government and commercial backlash and cycling in Australia will be devastated.

I wod have suspected that some blogger sleuth would have by now uncovered any possible link to doping. After all he is last years TdF winner, only 3 years ago WC winner. Recent history, and because of his accolades, because of public perception of "clean", it would be a tremendous career making scoop.

I realise that Cadel is a very different beast to Wiggins/Sky. Chalk and cheese in many ways. I guess my point is that I have seen people go to great lengths to dig and dig and dig when it comes to other individuals and teams to find things. There have been links demonstrated in other threads that are tenuous at best. I'm not suggesting that all that digging is a bad thing, if you don't look, you won't find, and I'm as interested as the next person in what is posted.
I just don't see anyone that interested in doing any digging on Cadel, either on here or in the Aus media. He is presented as pretty untouchable in anything I've read.

Sorry to pick on you again sittingbison but above where you say Cadel may have known about Ferrari, but pre notoriety... that's the type of thing, that of said in the Sky thread as defence would be blown out of the water "how could they not know what he was up to" "everyone knew" "you're a fool if you're that naive" etc etc. Sorry again to pick one of your lines, but I'm just demonstrating what I see as a pretty big lack of consistency on the forum.

Some riders/teams seem to be massive targets for digging, others slide on by. The big issue people seem to have with Sky is the way they doped to win the TdF, not that they did dope to win the TdF. My concern with all this? The message is almost.... we don't mind all that much if you dope, just don't make it too obvious. That I don't like. At all. It makes the fans part of the problem.

Sorry, that is starting to get way off topic.

 

[Jalina]

Easy to say now, but back then Ferrari was apparently the high priest of training and preparation in the world Evans wanted into: the pro road peloton. That was cycling. Ferrari's name didn't become a bad word until much later.

Because of what I just said, above. And because his manager said so. Back then, if your talents had Ferrari's stamp of approval you were probably in demand when the teams were waving around bank books.

Ok fair enough. But knowing what I know through my involvement in other sports here in Australia where doping is prevalent, I find it difficult to believe that most people in the know weren't aware. I realise he was looking to get into the road world, but I'd imagine there'd be quite a cross over of information across the disciplines?? (this is an assumption, I'm genuinely asking if this is the case)

 

[Maxiton]

Ok fair enough. But knowing what I know through my involvement in other sports here in Australia where doping is prevalent, I find it difficult to believe that most people in the know weren't aware. I realise he was looking to get into the road world, but I'd imagine there'd be quite a cross over of information across the disciplines?? (this is an assumption, I'm genuinely asking if this is the case)

Doping, or "preparation" as it's always been called, has always been a fact of life in the road racing world (and maybe in the newer mountain bike world, as well). I'm sure Evans knew this about it coming in, but he came into it anyway. I'm not sure what his knowing and doing it anyway means, though, other than that he wanted to race his bike and get paid for it.

 

[Jalina]

Doping, or "preparation" as it's always been called, has always been a fact of life in the road racing world (and maybe in the newer mountain bike world, as well). I'm sure Evans knew this about it coming in, but he came into it anyway. I'm not sure what his knowing and doing it anyway means, though, other than that he wanted to race his bike and get paid for it.

I was meaning specifically being aware of Ferrari's reputation. I'd have thought that would have crossed over into the MTB world (even though the scandal had not yet hit) and may set off a few alarm bells for a clean athlete to steer clear??

 

[Maxiton]

I was meaning specifically being aware of Ferrari's reputation. I'd have thought that would have crossed over into the MTB world (even though the scandal had not yet hit) and may set off a few alarm bells for a clean athlete to steer clear??

Asked and answered, see above.

 

[Jalina]

I think we just have a different take on what it may or may not mean.

 

[sittingbison]

Jalina its all part of the jigsaw of why it's not definitive or easy to label Evans clearly a doper. If he saw Ferrari even two years later in 2003 during the Italian prosecutions and certainly 2005 like Dodger then yes, he would have been fully aware of every ramification. But 2001? Not yet a pro road cyclist? Aware of Ferrari, even aware of Ferrari and EPO (can't remember...a Fedtina guy mentioning him?), but his name was not anathema.

Plus as has been mentioned he went there by manager Romingers recommendation. As a 21yo?? not yet a pro, without hindsight it is unlikely he would refuse. It is more likely he thought it a boost LOL to his prospects of Ferrari saw something in him.

We have to be careful with hindsight.

As I said before, you would think some sleuth would investigate him especially now the gloves are off and cycling is fair game. Exposing Evans would be huge news. It would only take one little lie, like showing one more visit with Ferrari in 2003.

EDIT: Look at Sky and Leinders. The problem is they employed him when he WAS known and exposed as a archfiend doping doctor fully cognizant of and complicit in the team based doping program. And personally with Chicken
and Dekker. So Brailsfords excuses don't cut the mustard.

 

[Tinman]

no one is beyond suspicion, and rightly so.

And if you involve yourself with Ferrari, beyond a mere test, more stupidity to you.

And look at the targets on Sky's chest.

Evans has never ever seen any skepticism or allegations pointed at him. When everyone in the head of field in the final week of the Tour, have been engaged in actions that contravened the supposed UCI regulations.

Evans seems to have a halo. And it is quite silly to raise the philsanthropic acts to make out he does not deserve this spotlight. No one here seeks to take his liberty. And the individuals are victims of a dysfunctional system and negative culture. I consistently say, the individuals should not be judged thru a morality lens.

Your post does not have merit.

The same kind of ordinary reply as your posts. Insinuations without decent facts or observations. Agree no one is beyond suspicion. Sadly that is now the sport we have.

My understanding is that Evans did ONE test which Rominger recommended/organized. That was it. Nothing "beyond". Who is stupid? Or am I missing something.

Sky has serious issues. A DS with history and several riders. They won the tour in circumstances that raised big questions. They have not been open to fans/journos since. Good on people to be critical, and good on you to declare your anti-Cadel motivations. I was right on that one also then.

Yes Cadel has a halo, for good reasons. In the absence of a decent blood testing system we have to look at people's associations, witness reports, character, etc. That's what the USADA LA case was built on. For Evans there simply is no dirt. In addition compared to many others in cycling he is Mr. Nice Guy. And that apparently makes it hard to cope for many/you.

Shame on you for pursuing this line of insinuations. Come up with some decent facts or observations, then we can have a discussion. Rather than repetitive baseless insinuations.