Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[blackcat]

the article is wire not a journo, and is a hodgepodge of soundbytes and his web diary. That particular comment is from the diary.


lol I purposely did not correct that one, it really stood out. Now, a tin foil hat wearing denizen would surmise it was inserted ON PURPOSE to give the impression it was written by Evans

BC, I have no idea if he wrote that or not, but to me it reeks of PR BS. The guy is literate but not lyrical, however the removal of ANY reference to the Armstrong vs USADA fiasco is the tell. If he DID write it, it has been well and truly vetted. It is not the idle writings in a diary of a TdF champ for the fans.


As I have note before, the second a story like this is verified he is sunk. Surely there are blogging sleuths, and journos with a new found resolve to dig into cycling and expose this. It would make their career.

When vino was pulled from the Tour for homologous transfusion in 07, the SBS journo (who did the croc trophy as a journo/reporter and other mtb, but not the cycling central mtb guy) asked Evans a few things, and gave him the Boonen and Prudhomme soundbit as prompt.

It was just the way this was in the diary on his website, sans the florid language. "oh thanks christian. They are doing a good job of cleaning it up"...

I know Guinness, Linda Pierce, Tan, Tomalaris, Rob Arnold have the info at their fingertips if they wish to run it. Now Sam Lane supplanted Pierce about 5 years back as cycling beat.

A cycling person wont run it.

And regular media wont run it.

And 4 Corners wont run it, or investigate. Nor should they. Their remit is not so narrowly defined. And as I assert, Evans in my mind, the cleanest of the GC riders. If Bruyneel agrees, and he has a few deepthroats in the peloton, then that is a good referral. So I would not like to see Evans taken down when the public have no idea about the culture he has to navigate. And when the media do not blow the lid on the PED culture in AFL and rugby, and track&field, and swimming. Why should they hang one rider who is less egregious than the rest. And the track cycling program, well well well.

 

[blackcat]

I would be surprised if Evans was being 'assisted' by Ferrari while he was at Telekom considering at the time Ferrari was being paid not to 'assist' anyone at Telekom.

being paid by Armstrong to not coach TdF GC contenders.

Evans rode his first TdF in what, 2005?

We are talking 2003/2004

And recent info has come out on all the riders Ferrari was coaching at the time. Quite a few.

But no Beloki, no Ullrich, no Zulle,

 

[sittingbison]

Good points BC, all true and again mainstream media driving news instead of reporting it. It's almost always the case though that's it's disinterested or with an axe to gtind media that scoop news, such as French vs Armstrong. I'm sure Italians or Spanish would have no hesitation with Evans like Oz might. And bloggers will reveal anything anytime.

I would be very surprised if that story you mention is about Evans, something already published. Not with that definitive statement this week. It would have bitten him within minutes. Some OTHER snippet though...

 

[blackcat]

Rene told me in email. But those australian cycling media folks know, or could know if they wanted to know. How many Aus cyclists in Europe are clean. I thought Zakeen Adam Hansen was til I saw his forehead recently. Was the best looking man in the peloton, til the hgh made his forehead asymmetrical. I wont believe cyclists anymore. (Eibegger is his best mate gotta google)

 

[blackcat]

Here's a genuine question which I have been thinking about all thread, if his hct levels were consistent say 43, and captain bag did not see anything amiss with some ABP data, would anyone here still think him a doper? And what would we all say about his performances against known dopers?

well, he needs to go to a cosmetic surgeon/vanity doctor and get some fillers for the cleft chin that has exacerbated in the last 5 years with a hgh regimen. Then I could overlook it. Even with lighting, evening catabolic 20k mile seasons and the atrophy of the white and red intrafacial tissue, that chin's clif has take on grand canyon/ urijah faber (ggle) proportions.

His inability to cope in the mtns when the smack goes down, have me classifying him as a reluctant "assister". Why the win was so impressive last year when he had no help and had to close the gap on Andy by himself.

 

[blackcat]

There is a reason why Telecom wouldn't include Cadel onto their tour team. He was certainly good enough. It was because he was clean. Sounds a lot like US Postal. Kept the non dopers off the team.

That's the only explanation I can think of back then.

that is not the story that I had. The mail went something like this.

"Ullrich does not like him. Evans wants freedom and ability to ride for himself if Ullrich fractures."

That was a no go. Evans never meshed with the culture. No matter how good he was, or how strong on the tar, he was not gonna be inducted into the team team. The camaraderie. If you have seen Overcoming the film documentary, and Bjarne Riis' efforts to instill the esprit de corps at CSC, obviously part of it is just Vaughters PR shtick, but it has an element of merit and is genuine. Evans is not a political animal.

 

[movingtarget]

that is not the story that I had. The mail went something like this.

"Ullrich does not like him. Evans wants freedom and ability to ride for himself if Ullrich fractures."

That was a no go. Evans never meshed with the culture. No matter how good he was, or how strong on the tar, he was not gonna be inducted into the team team. The camaraderie. If you have seen Overcoming the film documentary, and Bjarne Riis' efforts to instill the esprit de corps at CSC, obviously part of it is just Vaughters PR shtick, but it has an element of merit and is genuine. Evans is not a political animal.

It makes me laugh to think of how Evans could ever have been a member of that team. Talk about about putting a square peg in a round hole. But it worked in Evans favour by his departure. Evans is too much of an individual to fit into that sort of team culture.

 

[Yingge]

I think that when Mapei folded at the end of 2002, Evans had to take whatever was on offer in order to get a job in 2003. Though why Telekom - beats me - Contracts must have been scarce.

He has described 2003-2004 as "lost years" - from memory he broke his collarbone about 3 times and I think the reason given for him not being selected in the TdF team in 2003 was as a result of one of those breaks. He wasn't selected in 2004 either and only really got to ride the lesser races.

I too think that he didn't fit into the "Culture" at Telekom, hence him being overlooked, and getting out as soon as he could - though Rogers didn't seem to have the same problem in his time at Telekom.

 

[spetsa]

I concur. Even as I was writing it I was thinking - nearly every photo of Cadel on the MTB he's riding solo, and from my very limited MTB experience, even at the start it goes single file really quick. Nowhere near the intensity of 200 riders all trying to get to the front on a narrow French road.

I am glad that you admit that your knowledge of MTB racing is limited. MTB races go single file quickly due to the imediate intensity, much like a TT on the road. Nothing like a pack of 200 people "all trying to get to the front" in a road race. Anyhow, most of those mtb racing photos that you refer to, Cadel was most likely off the front by himself. And if you knew anything about mtb racing at the time, in regards to its way over the top and rampant drug use, with little if any testing, his success says one of two things about Cadel Evans.

1-He either is by far the most talented cyclist ever, having dominated in multiple disciplines against doped up competition.

2-you can figure out #2.

I am going with #2

 

[peloton]

I am glad that you admit that your knowledge of MTB racing is limited. MTB races go single file quickly due to the imediate intensity, much like a TT on the road. Nothing like a pack of 200 people "all trying to get to the front" in a road race. Anyhow, most of those mtb racing photos that you refer to, Cadel was most likely off the front by himself. And if you knew anything about mtb racing at the time, in regards to its way over the top and rampant drug use, with little if any testing, his success says one of two things about Cadel Evans.

1-He either is by far the most talented cyclist ever, having dominated in multiple disciplines against doped up competition.

2-you can figure out #2.

I am going with #2

Michael Rasmussen won the MTB Worlds in -99. Just sayin'

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I am glad that you admit that your knowledge of MTB racing is limited. MTB races go single file quickly due to the imediate intensity, much like a TT on the road.

You gotta be drunk or something mate. MTB races go single file really quickly because they are held on singletrack - you know singletrack.

MTB races on fire roads aren't real MTB races, no matter how elite you think you are.

Good grief.

 

[manafana]

Evans has doubts over him but in general id have believe he went nowhere near the good stuff anyway, likely anyone back in the day woukld have done the soft stuff.

 

[spetsa]

You gotta be drunk or something mate. MTB races go single file really quickly because they are held on singletrack - you know singletrack.


Good grief.

Maybe that is what happens at the back, a place that I wasn't too familiar with.

 

[spetsa]

Evans has doubts over him but in general id have believe he went nowhere near the good stuff anyway, likely anyone back in the day woukld have done the soft stuff.

"Back in the day"....you mean 1997 when he turned pro? Yeah...no one had even heard of EPO yet.

 

[Yingge]

On a separate note, Cadel is participating in George Hincapie's last 'race' this weekend, presumably a stopover on his way to Oz.

http://www.granfondohincapie.com/

I guess that will stoke a few more fires in light of George's confession, though I can understand the reasoning for Cadel attending.

 

[blackcat]

I think that when Mapei folded at the end of 2002, Evans had to take whatever was on offer in order to get a job in 2003. Though why Telekom - beats me - Contracts must have been scarce.

He has described 2003-2004 as "lost years" - from memory he broke his collarbone about 3 times and I think the reason given for him not being selected in the TdF team in 2003 was as a result of one of those breaks. He wasn't selected in 2004 either and only really got to ride the lesser races.

I too think that he didn't fit into the "Culture" at Telekom, hence him being overlooked, and getting out as soon as he could - though Rogers didn't seem to have the same problem in his time at Telekom.

Telekom could pay the best too. I think that is not to be overlooked

 

[blackcat]

"Clean" might for Hamilton mean something different from "never used any banned substance whatsoever". Perhaps in Hamilton's definition, Indurain was "clean". There is also the common expression " I did not take doping, just something to help recover." The difference would lie not only in the amount taken, but also in the approach that is used in the application; a scientific Ferrari-like program designed to maximise the effect on performance while not being detectable vs. a few substances helping a rider survive the race, or six days, or whatever. Many riders have acknowledged such degrees of doping.

this is the most cogent explanation

 

[cineteq]

I would be surprised if Evans was being 'assisted' by Ferrari while he was at Telekom considering at the time Ferrari was being paid not to 'assist' anyone at Telekom.

This doesn't look good for Evans...

Tony Rominger in trouble...
http://www.rts.ch/sport/cyclisme/4384458-tony-rominger-dans-de-sales-draps.html

 

[Zultronova]

This doesn't look good for Evans...

Tony Rominger in trouble...
http://www.rts.ch/sport/cyclisme/4384458-tony-rominger-dans-de-sales-draps.html

Google Translation :

The ramifications of the Affair Lance Armstrong may soon extend to within Swiss borders. Several French-speaking newspapers announce that Tony Rominger Management, a company created by former Swiss rider Tony Rominger, is involved in an extensive network to fund a doping system and practice of tax evasion and money laundering.

An investigation by the attorney currently Padua, Italy aims to highlight the actions of the infamous Dr. Michele Ferrari, whose ties with Lance Armstrong have been demonstrated by the recent report of the Anti-Doping Agency étasunienne (Usada). "The ramifications of this network leads to Switzerland and Neuchâtel. Several social reasons refer to the former champion cyclist Tony Rominger."

According to this information, "various money network Ferrari passed through the Sàrl 'Tony Rominger Management", based in the canton of Neuchâtel until 2011 and now headquartered in Baar (ZG). Italian investigators may also be interested in "other Swiss personalities more or less close to the world of cycling."

Nicknamed "Doctor EPO," Michele Ferrari has long been in contact with Lance Armstrong, who has just been struck for life by the UCI cycling following the publication of the report Usada. The doctor had also maintained a professional relationship with Tony Rominger when it was still running.

 

[sittingbison]

OK we have gone almost 500 posts, its time for another wrap up of the arguments for and against Evans doping. I have slightly expanded on my first wrap up at 122 post mark.

Arguments for doping:
1) Confirmed client of Ferrari in 2000. Possible connection in 2003 with Telekom. recent declaration that he only saw Ferrari in 2000 is "all in"
2) lots of known doping teams, Mapei, Telekom, Lotto, BMC. the Bassons, Moncoutie argument
3) performance against known dopers didn't actually WIN until 2011. Always struggled. Fluctuating performances
4) not a vocal anti doper, silence on Armstrong, meally mouthed utterance against Vino in 2007, useless recent diary post. private and reclusive, uncomfortable with public address
5) Won the TdF at 34yo, still performing at 35yo diet and sports science
6) BMC Soigneur arrested with EPO, and the Lotto swannie not at BMC when busted
7) Several illnesses including this year and the Hunters' Syndrome diagnosis post Pais Vasco 2006 http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/latest-cycling-news-for-april-24-2006
8) Managed by uber doper Tony Rominger not manager from before 2005
9) protected by vested interests such as Cycling Australia

Arguments against doping:
1) 2002 Mapei talk about impressive 2002 Giro (performed when he was not given anything)
2) Sassi's relationship. Sassi's words in the final year, said a Tour win would mark Evans as the finest rider of his generation.
3) no 'hard' evidence of any kind which means diddly squat
4) no mutterings from peloton or media. Boonen in 2007, Hamilton in 2012, expressed a confidence warped perspective of "clean" in cycling
5) normal career trajectory
6) no abnormal performance increases such as Wiggo or Froome 2007 Tour performance
7) no startling stages or "extraterrestrial" attacks like Ricco
8) physiology, high 80s or low 90s VO2 test at the AIS in Canberra not as good as LeMonds
9) Not selected in Telekom Tour teams, and stayed in the 2004 Vuelta when the team aborted because of food poisoning, which has been mooted to be bad blood.

Dutch journo Rene Schuijlenburg (sic) in Cyingheroes confirmed him with Ferrari at Telekom pre-season camp in 2003. A German website in 2006 also had this (Suddeutsche Zeitung??), however he does not appear to be part of the Telekom set up, and Ferrari was employed by Lance. His recent declaration that he only saw Ferrari in 2000 is a direct statement that could be verified as a lie, and would destroy him.

The single biggest and irrefutable argument is a career performing against known and suspected dopers. See the Tour de France list here http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1054190&postcount=22. This is more than enough reason for many in the clinic to hang him.

 

[Ferminal]

Need to fix ya links!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You may have already read it, but the amount of words spoken by Cadel to describe why his team mates fell ill provides a stark contrast to his most recent letter re: USADA.

A snippet:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/sep04/sep09news3
Evans praised the hotel, saying that it was "easily the nicest hotel by far in this year's race...But the restaurant didn't do our team any favours. We went down to dinner and nothing was out of the ordinary; it was the typical start of a Spanish dinner, salad with iceberg lettuce, fish, tinned asparagus - it always has a mix of at least those ingredients...anyway, it tastes like **** and I don't normally eat it. Last night was no exception.

His roommate is one of the ones who fell ill. How he could possibly not know what was going on is beyond me. If it is true he thought it was the fish, then Brailsford's surprise also needs to be given some leeway, coz Dave certainly never shared a room with someone who got ill after "eating fish" during a GT...

I think my Cadel fanboyism is well and truly dead.

 

[Ferminal]

Don't make friends with salad?

 

[sittingbison]

You may have already read it, but the amount of words spoken by Cadel to describe why his team mates fell ill provides a stark contrast to his most recent letter re: USADA.

...His roommate is one of the ones who fell ill. How he could possibly not know what was going on is beyond me. If it is true he thought it was the fish, then Brailsford's surprise also needs to be given some leeway, coz Dave certainly never shared a room with someone who got ill after "eating fish" during a GT...

I think my Cadel fanboyism is well and truly dead.

spoken in 2004. To his credit he then DID say:

"We then just ate the other normal things; pasta, rice, meat...all the things we usually eat in the evenings during a stage race. Some people choose what they want, some people eat everything"

This might be why he got more parsimonious as his career progressed. The less he speaks, the less chance to look like an idiot later on when people get busted for doping after eating...the salmon mousse

Its like everything else about the guy, a complex jigsaw puzzle

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Wow. I didn't pick up the "choose vs everything" - nice. Thanks. Some faith restored.