Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[delbified]

well, anecdotally, in his first Giro where he wore the maglia rosa for mapei, the mapei people were saying it was such a good result because they did not have him on anything.

is this evidence that Cadel was clean or later dirty?

 

[blackcat]

is this evidence that Cadel was clean or later dirty?

neither,

if the clinic should tell one thing, it is not a moral judgement to take PEDs as a sportsmen or cyclist.

see DearWiggo's compilation of the things for and against

 

[blackcat]

Is that quote ("I have a ferrari inside me") really all you have to link Cadel to Ferrari?

see the entire thread. and this is not a polemic on evans.

 

[blackcat]

evans has a similar perverse humour and eccentric prose as yourself, so irenef true, i'm not reading much into it

actually he went on record with Rene the cycling journalist @Cyclingheroes when he was interviewing him at a Telekom training camp. And Vaughters knows this personally from the peloton.

you need to read the first pages of the thread, and the negative and positive factors. do a member search in this thread for DearWiggo who posted it all. and i contributed to either side.

on the VO2, @AIS i think brett aitken has the highest for a cyclist in the 90s, and there is fuzzy records on evans, 91, or 88. and when, 17? or a year either side. i think a rower might have the highest VO2max at AIS, but rowers and nordic skiiers recruit upper body so will have a higher result.

the most damning evidence imo, is the results (cos only wins count in cycling) have come in his mid 30s. that is NOT NORMAL

VO2 and his podium in the chrono at World Juniors when he got on Mcewens chrono bike and he rode mtb not road, is significant at his native talent. a clean peloton, his palmares look more like Contadors.

 

[blackcat]

He could still be on his own.

Wouldn't surprise me if he started in his MTB days.

nah, it would surprise me. you look at the culture and those who surround athletes. i think this is implausible.

 

[blackcat]

Too bad. Everything out there indicates he was pretty respected in the peleton.

quotes like this:



source: http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/10/but-what-about-hincapie/

ask Jorg Jaksche what he thinks of him.

when leipheimer jaksche and evans were climbing in deutschland rund, and he asked jaksche to work, he said "f@rck off @rsehole". JJ and the Germans had no time for Evans.

 

[iZnoGouD]

VO2 max is not a predictor of performance, nor of potencial of an athlete
Genetics are overrated, everyone can get to the top if they have passion for the sport

 

[Benotti69]

VO2 max is not a predictor of performance, nor of potencial of an athlete
Genetics are overrated, everyone can get to the top if they have passion for the sport

and a good doping doctor

 

[blackcat]

VO2 max is not a predictor of performance, nor of potencial of an athlete
Genetics are overrated, everyone can get to the top if they have passion for the sport

damn, i meant to have my "Greg Lemond caveat"

re: VO2 was dispelled as the be all and end all of performance around Lemonds era, but he has kept banging on about it. no doubt, it is significant, but it is not like Lemond touts, otherwise have a Tour de Laboratory Sportive

 

[iZnoGouD]

and a good doping doctor

nowadays you don't need that

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

VO2 max is not a predictor of performance, nor of potencial of an athlete
Genetics are overrated, everyone can get to the top if they have passion for the sport

So, we now know why Machado flunks every time.

 

[Ripper]

ask Jorg Jaksche what he thinks of him.

when leipheimer jaksche and evans were climbing in deutschland rund, and he asked jaksche to work, he said "f@rck off @rsehole". JJ and the Germans had no time for Evans.

Just as a sidebar - this sounds like JJ WRT almost anyone! JJ not much for the nice words

 

[Ripper]

VO2 max is not a predictor of performance, nor of potencial of an athlete
Genetics are overrated, everyone can get to the top if they have passion for the sport

You forgot the winky face.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

You forgot the winky face.

He is actually serious.

 

[james48]

helo

Hello to everyone

 

[Netserk]

Hello to everyone

And hello to you

If you want to introduce yourself:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9

 

[blackcat]

Just as a sidebar - this sounds like JJ WRT almost anyone! JJ not much for the nice words

fair point. but it was a funny anecdote.

might be lost if you have aspergers and threaten people if they stand on your dog tho.

first rule of dogs. its like, dont bring a gun to a knife fight.

dont bring a dog to a media scrum.

 

[Ferminal]

blackcat, obviously telling a doper like JJ to GTFO is evidence of cleanliness. 100%.

 

[Walkman]

There have been hundreds of dopers in cycling of which Lance is one. When assessing immunity or impunity, Armstrong becomes especially relevant because he was the biggest fish and had the biggest fall so is worth assessing more than the others.

But when it comes to merely comparing characters there is nothing about Lance that makes him stand out. He was a doper that had that personality and attitude, other dopers had a different attitude. Some are jerks some are nice. Some talk a lot some are quiet. Plenty of people with Evans character have doped. So one cant just argue that someone may be clean because their attitude is different to lance. Contadors is different to lance. Landis was different to Lance.

The only thing about someones attitude that one can use to argue that they are clean is an anti doping stance, or their reaction to events anyway. Evans, even though he if clean, was basically robbed of most of his career, (all the wins he would have had), never did show that. In fact hes paisans with plenty of dopers or doping ds's like andy rhys.

In the 2000's evans would have had to be massively anti doping in order to not touch drugs himself. As bro deal pointed out many times, if he was clean, then even a minor drug program would have turned him into a multiple gt winner and cycling legend. He obviously had the will to win and train himself past the pain barrier day after day. So any anti doping stance would have to be significantly greater for Evans to stop him from doping than it is for anyone else who isnt fighting for the tour de france.

yet this amazingly potent anti doping stance that he allegedly holds, in secret, which he held on to throughout his career at the expense of untold glory, sums of money etc, has not kept him from being close to other dopers or from even a few months ago using lance armstrong's 1999 comeback as a model he wants to follow.
Doesn't really make sense to me.

Yeah...if you could stop bending the truth to prove a point, that would be great.

People. Are. Not. The. Same.

Everyone reacts differently on doping. You CAN NEVER say someone will make 0.5% improvement with a minor program, since YOU DON'T KNOW!

 

[Walkman]

i am the only australian with a ferrari inside me(him)

I am not saying you are lying, but some fact to back it up would be nice. I have been reading these boards since 2009 and this is the first time I have heard that. If it was "well known" one might feel it should have come up earlier.

 

[blackcat]

I am not saying you are lying, but some fact to back it up would be nice. I have been reading these boards since 2009 and this is the first time I have heard that. If it was "well known" one might feel it should have come up earlier.

ask race radio, ask JV. pm them.

 

[observer]

this story was around at the time of his tour win.

Evans also received a standing ovation from journalists covering the tour, hailed as a "clean" winner in a sport tarnished by drug cheats.

might give some insight into what journos think of him. I'd think that most journos toe the line when printing a story, but their actions and words between themselves would be more realistic.


http://newsstore.fairfax.com.au/app...ls=12577&clsPage=1&docID=AGE110812L627B510D53

 

[webvan]

ask Jorg Jaksche what he thinks of him.

when leipheimer jaksche and evans were climbing in deutschland rund, and he asked jaksche to work, he said "f@rck off @rsehole". JJ and the Germans had no time for Evans.

Seems to me it says more about JJ than about Evans? Who told that story anyway? JJ?

 

[delbified]

Seems to me it says more about JJ than about Evans? Who told that story anyway? JJ?

JV said he refused to hire JJ based primarily on his (lack of) character

in any case, it's unlikely JJ was abusing Evans out of anger at Evans' doping, when JJ himself doped. although anything's possible in the crazy world of pro cycling

 

[The Hitch]

this story was around at the time of his tour win.



might give some insight into what journos think of him. I'd think that most journos toe the line when printing a story, but their actions and words between themselves would be more realistic.


http://newsstore.fairfax.com.au/app...ls=12577&clsPage=1&docID=AGE110812L627B510D53

Words cannot describe how flawed this argument is. Seriously i cannot believe people post stuff like this.

First of all, i dont know if you realize this or not, but the bit about doping in the sentence you quote, is totally seperate from the bit about the journos applauding him. It says they applauded him, then the author trying to sell evans as clean adds in his own opinion that evans is considered clean, but that bit has absolutely nothing to do with the journos, its 2 sentences linked because a comma is used instead of a full stop.

Evans also received a standing ovation from journalists covering the tour, hailed as a "clean" winner in a sport tarnished by drug cheats.

Furthermore the source is unusable. Its a national media outlet, making a vague and generic story about a event they are seeing from far away. Not only that its conveniently an ozzie newspaper making an ozzie nationalistic piece. Totally delegitimizes the whole story (if it was arguing what you claim it is arguing)

Every country hails their own winners in every sport as clean, with no proof. Could publish 5 volumes of an encyclopedia just of names of dopers who were hailed as clean heroes in stories like this before they got caught. Or who got standing ovations Stories like this arent worth the 2kb word document they are written on.


And how are journos supposed to know he is clean in the first place? What information could they possibly have that gets them all to decide he was clean?