Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[whittashau]

How about a "closer inspection" of the 2005 Tour de France?

I was just looking at the top 50. There has to be at least 30 confirmed dopers in there.

top 20 all confirmed dopers other than Zubeldia, Popo, Evans and Guerini. I think a clean Cadel would need to have a VO2max of a 100 to top 10 in that Tour like he did.

 

[Granville57]

I was just looking at the top 50. There has to be at least 30 confirmed dopers in there.

top 20 all confirmed dopers other than Zubeldia, Popo, Evans and Guerini. I think a clean Cadel would need to have a VO2max of a 100 to top 10 in that Tour like he did.

And of course he would have been protesting his frustration vociferously ever since then. But never a whisper from the Wonder from Down Under.




Btw, I only just noticed that the above pic consists of SEVEN alarm bells.

 

[Ferminal]

How about a "closer inspection" of the 2005 Tour de France?

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=2578

Casar FTW I think?

 

[PCutter]

How about a "closer inspection" of the 2005 Tour de France?

He finished 12 minutes down on the winner and gained some time in a break which was let go, so I think that if you actually took a closer inspection you would see it says nothing at all

 

[blackcat]

I was just looking at the top 50. There has to be at least 30 confirmed dopers in there.

top 20 all confirmed dopers other than Zubeldia, Popo, Evans and Guerini. I think a clean Cadel would need to have a VO2max of a 100 to top 10 in that Tour like he did.

when does the appellation "clean" seem to mean "I am stupid". Any polymath liberal arts grad, asking to assess in a sample, if the norms dictate the top 50 winningest riders, have all had infractions, then to assert an individual exists OUTSIDE those parameters.

When all the science and technology is not a rounding error on a comprehensive medical program (shoutout to D-Queued) !!!.

folks gotta stop bringing a judgemental and pre-conceived moralistic lens to doping. The norms of the sport accept it. How can this be denied with all the overwhelming evidence that asserts. and asserts otherwise in respect to its moral status. its not an ethical issue wrt the sport. it is accepted.

jv has attempted to move the pendulum. respect for that.

the problem with the puritanical lens, many new fans to the sport are unaware of the history, and believe that these are moral crimes. it allows individuals to be slandered like ricco, and others to be deified like armstrong. most on the continent, know the history of the sport, and do not see it thru such an ignorant lens.

professors catlin, yesalis, savulescu have all said as much wrt the doping issue.

 

[Cookster15]

I was just looking at the top 50. There has to be at least 30 confirmed dopers in there.

top 20 all confirmed dopers other than Zubeldia, Popo, Evans and Guerini. I think a clean Cadel would need to have a VO2max of a 100 to top 10 in that Tour like he did.

Evans was struggling to stay with the top 10 that year - only a break he was allowed to go on stage 16 or 17 got him into 8th. The Ax3 Domains stage he lost 4 minutes on the final climb after getting back on in the previous descent. 2005 douesn't raise any alarm bells with me. He did show good recovery though with strong showing on Mende and a reasonable TT.

Sure maybe there were 30 dopers but I very much doubt they all had the same natural ability as Evans.

 

[Nick777]

It would be fascinating reading if someone could be bothered to go back & do the power calculations of Armstrong V Evans for the climbs in 2005.

 

[Netserk]

He climbed Alpe in a little more than 40' (~40'13 I think) in 2006. I'd imagine he did his best numbers in 2007 (like many others...)

 

[blackcat]

Sure maybe there were 30 dopers but I very much doubt they all had the same natural ability as Evans.

have to agree with this. tho i may be biased and lack hard evidence

 

[Nick777]

have to agree with this. tho i may be biased and lack hard evidence

See... this is where it gets messy & unfair to anyone who might be clean. It is impossible to know who those people might be.

Cadel supposedly has links with Ferrari. How extensive...nobody has really put it forward yet.
Lance used Ferrari.
Cadel had significantly better testing results than Lance (7-8% IIRC, both in Vo2 & threshold).
Take away Cadel's 3 1/2 minutes gained in a breakaway in the 05 tour, and he finishes 15+ minutes down on a guy he was more talented than.

Possible?
Impossible?
Clean?
Dirty?

Sad, really.

 

[blackcat]

Sad, really.

not sad at all. its cycling.

those who see it as sad, bring a moral lens.

this is cycling, this is not a defamation of character. if anyone wishes to ask about the Ferrari inside me, pm Race Radio and JV1973. But the late Aldo Sassi always had the remit for Evans training program. thing about Evans, he just gives the obfuscation misdirections of the cyclist. "just went to ferrari for the testing for Rominger in st tropez test climb in 2001 when doing the stagiare position at Saeco Cannondale". well, that is not the truth is it. I do not know the whole truth, but that is not it. RR and jv will concede that. just dont ask anyone to spit in the soup, just ask them for a non denial denial. "can you deny, that CE said that anecdote about MF in the peloton?"

 

[frenchfry]

I was just looking at the top 50. There has to be at least 30 confirmed dopers in there.

top 20 all confirmed dopers other than Zubeldia, Popo, Evans and Guerini. I think a clean Cadel would need to have a VO2max of a 100 to top 10 in that Tour like he did.

Are you actually suggesting that Zubeldia and Popovych were anything other than major dopers????

 

[86TDFWinner]

There's a tad more tbh.


- BMC has a truly dirty record (in the past, but the team structure seems to be the same).

Evans simply never rode for a team that can be regarded as clean. That's no proof at all, but it's troublesome all the same.

.

Are you insinuating here that the entire BMC team was/is doping, including Teejay and Tayler? I'm sorry, I have trouble believing both Teejay and Taylor are doping. I may be wrong, since I have no proof either way. Just seems odd that Taylor would dope, considering who his father is.

Speaking of which, may I ask where your proof is to back up your claim on Evans? Not trying to be a jerk, it's been asked many times, and no one can provide it.

 

[Nick777]

not sad at all. its cycling.

those who see it as sad, bring a moral lens.

We are neither right nor wrong on this.
I think it is sad.
You don't.
I'm cool with that.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Are you insinuating here that the entire BMC team was/is doping, including Teejay and Tayler? I'm sorry, I have trouble believing both Teejay and Tayler are doping. I may be wrong, since I have no proof either way. Just seems odd that Tayler would dope, considering who his father is.

Speaking of which, may I ask where your proof is to back up your claim on Evans? Not trying to be a jerk, it's been asked many times, and no one can provide it.

Saying that the BMC guys have a dirty record is not to say that the entire team is dirty. After all, Gaumont and Millar have told us there were a couple of clean riders even at 2003 Cofidis. However, if those guys want to dope, Lelangue, Ochowicz and Rihs aren't exactly going to stand in their way with their record.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

not sad at all. its cycling.

those who see it as sad, bring a moral lens.

Could be an emotional lens, doesn't have to be moral. Sadness judges the outcome more than the method.

 

[blackcat]

We are neither right nor wrong on this.
I think it is sad.
You don't.
I'm cool with that.

i did. i dont know. was burnt.

 

[blackcat]

Could be an emotional lens, doesn't have to be moral. Sadness judges the outcome more than the method.

i appreciate this opinion. not an either or. wrong of moi, to seem so absolute. or be absolute.

 

[whittashau]

Are you actually suggesting that Zubeldia and Popovych were anything other than major dopers????

Lol, no, but the rest had either been implicated in doping scandals or failed tests while those two didn't. Of course, that makes sense considering the man they worked with.

I really don't understand all the people here who refuse to think that Cadel could have doped. He has CONFIRMED to have worked with Ferrari, and he competed well in an era where literally almost everyone was doing it.

As for natural talents. Basso basically had identical numbers to Evans according to Sassi. Contador has better numbers.

 

[Franklin]

Are you insinuating here that the entire BMC team was/is doping, including Teejay and Tayler? I'm sorry, I have trouble believing both Teejay and Tayler are doping. I may be wrong, since I have no proof either way. Just seems odd that Tayler would dope, considering who his father is.

Nope, I simply say that BMC has a very dirty past with GT winners. Now the management can be born-again paladins but it's still an odd choice for a clean rider. Keep in mind that these are the same guys behind riders like Hamilton, Perez and Landis.

Speaking of which, may I ask where your proof is to back up your claim on Evans? Not trying to be a jerk, it's been asked many times, and no one can provide it.

I have no proof and do not claim I have it. This is why I do not claim anything about Evans (or anyone else for that matter).

However this does not change the fact that he is assorting with reprehensible people (BMC) who should be banned from the sport.

 

[blackcat]

but there is nigh 2 degrees of seperation between drugs and affected individuals. sport does not exist otherwise

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Is Freddy V. still aboard?

http://www.bmcracingteam.com/index.php?id=16

Yupz.
Lots of Belgians aboard.

BMC = Belgian Massage Club?

 

[blackcat]

hehehehe ^^

 

[86TDFWinner]

Saying that the BMC guys have a dirty record is not to say that the entire team is dirty. After all, Gaumont and Millar have told us there were a couple of clean riders even at 2003 Cofidis. However, if those guys want to dope, Lelangue, Ochowicz and Rihs aren't exactly going to stand in their way with their record.

Not what I asked for......poster came off saying he believed the entire BMC team was dirty, I asked him to please provide a source where he got that claim from, they still haven't. Either way......please post it here.

 

[TANK91]

^^^^
Do you honestly believe Lemond was clean ha ha ha 3 TDF wins riding clean oh my god, he may not have been as bad but he took something they all did back then. You cant just say he is clean becuse Lemond said so lol, they all say it.