Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[Ferminal]

So everyone else sub-40min has done so on a 10km solo? The great Cadel Evans has "sucked wheel" up Alpe d'Huez three times and still never cracked 40 minutes.

Even though I'm not sure that's exactly what he did. In typical Sastre fashion he got dropped early, found his rhythm, and rode Leipheimer back up to two robots up ahead.

 

[Taxus4a]

So everyone else sub-40min has done so on a 10km solo? The great Cadel Evans has "sucked wheel" up Alpe d'Huez three times and still never cracked 40 minutes.

Even though I'm not sure that's exactly what he did. In typical Sastre fashion he got dropped early, found his rhythm, and rode Leipheimer back up to two robots up ahead.

Sastre was better climber than Evans?

Anyway, in 2008, for Evans was almost a solo, they stopped sometimes, he miscalculated in his own words and thougt could put more time on Sastre in the ITT.
IMO even 39 is possible in a solo, in an ITT, not at the end of a GT, not in a hard stage, but yes if it not a solo.
38 in not possible.

But this is my opinion, I am not an expert in that

 

[Zam_Olyas]

You're wasting your time, folks.

Yes, i can verify this.

 

[Taxus4a]

Yes, i can verify this.

Yes, we have a brain and we are not going with the tide yes or yes.

We believe things could be differents as a lot of people said, and we dont like people who think: if you are not convinced by our very clear statements, you must be quoted and quoted and if still not, you must be trolling or something like that.

Follow the advice of hrotha, and dont waste your time, at least I dont want to lost my time with people who act that way, and just force to answer.

I learn things of everybody, but that kind of pressure is insane.

We dont press people to think like us, as you do, but just to dont affirm something is in a way, if is proven that could be at least another way.

 

[Heckler]

Sucking wheel? It is not the same.

Anyway it is just a possibility, I as well find hard to believe those perfomances.

I have seen again 2008 and there is tail wind half of the climb, and cross wind the other half:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jXvKQ2MVCw

You can see i.e at 1:45 how the wind is clearly in the direction of the climb.

One thing on this thread is certain; all the posting has really improved your English.

Keep at it and you're bound to become a Canadian citizen in no time.

 

[Taxus4a]

One thing on this thread is certain; all the posting has really improved your English.

Keep at it and you're bound to become a Canadian citizen in no time.

If you are serious... I don't think a lot, but maybe a little. I will make big mistakes for sure.. I couldnt even pass first certificate, and I was better at grammar then,... for a little, but I wasn´t able... more for listening, and I have improved that, so maybe now I could.

That would be great

If a day I will pass it for this forum, you are all invited

I hope anyway people could understand me at least better I understand most of the post

 

[Galic Ho]

2006... 39'01"

Was he saving energy there too? For his dominance on La Toussuire and Joux Plane?

Sastre has three times in the 39 minute range. He was never clean. Nobody going under 40 minutes is.

Evans has always been in the range he was. Cadel used his blood bags for his chrono. Sastre for the mountain. 2008? Who knows if Cadel even used them that year. But I do know if he'd have performed CVV's final chrono, he'd have won the Tour by like a second.

Some food for thought people. You know who was saying Sastre was clean the other week don't you?

 

[M Sport]

You know who was saying Sastre was clean the other week don't you?

In the media or here? I missed it but did someone have the quick response along the lines of only 11 riders have ever gone faster than Sastre up there? It's a brave or stupid man put their neck on the line calling Sastre clean.

 

[Benotti69]

Yes, we have a brain and we are not going with the tide yes or yes.

We believe things could be differents as a lot of people said, and we dont like people who think: if you are not convinced by our very clear statements, you must be quoted and quoted and if still not, you must be trolling or something like that.

Follow the advice of hrotha, and dont waste your time, at least I dont want to lost my time with people who act that way, and just force to answer.

I learn things of everybody, but that kind of pressure is insane.

We dont press people to think like us, as you do, but just to dont affirm something is in a way, if is proven that could be at least another way.

The clinic most definetely swims against the tide.

Doping is by and large ignored by most fans, most federations and more importantly most sport media.

So to correct you again the Clinic and those who post about the doping in cycling are swimming against the tide.

You on the other hand are an omerta poster.

 

[Fatclimber]

In the media or here? I missed it but did someone have the quick response along the lines of only 11 riders have ever gone faster than Sastre up there? It's a brave or stupid man put their neck on the line calling Sastre clean.

My sentiments exactly. But here's what JV said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973
...
Sastre, I cannot comment on his early career, but my opinion of his 08 Tour victory is generally positive. in 08 AFLD controlled the testing at the Tour and were pushing it very hard. Patrice Clerq and Gilbert Ysern were the principles at ASO and were willing to make hard, but good, choices to clean up the race. I miss those guys. Absolute tragedy they got fired in the UCI vs ASO scuffle. They did everything they could in 08 to test the riders for a fair race. everything.

Anyhow, if we look at the numbers on climbs, Sastre was within acceptable ranges on the climbs, with the exception of Alpe, which he was exceptional and slightly over 6w/kg. So, I can't say anything with certainty, but if forced to bet my life or my son's life on did Sastre dope or not dope in 2008 TdF? I would choose not dope.

And then I would cringe waiting to see if a gun fired.

JV

 

[Taxus4a]

My sentiments exactly. But here's what JV said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973
...
Sastre, I cannot comment on his early career, but my opinion of his 08 Tour victory is generally positive. in 08 AFLD controlled the testing at the Tour and were pushing it very hard. Patrice Clerq and Gilbert Ysern were the principles at ASO and were willing to make hard, but good, choices to clean up the race. I miss those guys. Absolute tragedy they got fired in the UCI vs ASO scuffle. They did everything they could in 08 to test the riders for a fair race. everything.

Anyhow, if we look at the numbers on climbs, Sastre was within acceptable ranges on the climbs, with the exception of Alpe, which he was exceptional and slightly over 6w/kg. So, I can't say anything with certainty, but if forced to bet my life or my son's life on did Sastre dope or not dope in 2008 TdF? I would choose not dope.

And then I would cringe waiting to see if a gun fired.

JV

With tail wind, not affecting a lot in a mountain like that, but something.
I did not read JV, but it is a motive more to believe, he think the same as me... difficult to believe, but possible.

And if he has been the 13 rider there, and he would be the best without doping, that is why doping is a crap. It is not enough people 13 th.
Anyway, Sastre always accept doping was very difficult to stop, so he learned to deal with that.

It is not Sastre a man that I like a lot...I dont like his statements frecuently and other things, the same for Evans, but as riders they deserve my consideration

 

[Ferminal]

My sentiments exactly. But here's what JV said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973
...
Sastre, I cannot comment on his early career, but my opinion of his 08 Tour victory is generally positive. in 08 AFLD controlled the testing at the Tour and were pushing it very hard. Patrice Clerq and Gilbert Ysern were the principles at ASO and were willing to make hard, but good, choices to clean up the race. I miss those guys. Absolute tragedy they got fired in the UCI vs ASO scuffle. They did everything they could in 08 to test the riders for a fair race. everything.

Anyhow, if we look at the numbers on climbs, Sastre was within acceptable ranges on the climbs, with the exception of Alpe, which he was exceptional and slightly over 6w/kg. So, I can't say anything with certainty, but if forced to bet my life or my son's life on did Sastre dope or not dope in 2008 TdF? I would choose not dope.

And then I would cringe waiting to see if a gun fired.

JV

Well, I'd back Sastre in ahead of JV's man. And the Luxembourgers.

Menchov FTW

 

[roundabout]

Back Sastre for what?

If ever there was a teflon guy then it's him.

 

[Ferminal]

To be clean in the 2008 Tour.

 

[roundabout]

Yes, while the rest of the team was doping to the max, Sastre led them all clean.

I'll give him credit for making it seem believable, but I won't stick even my toe out that he was clean.

 

[Ferminal]

In relative terms... I don't for one second believe there was a clean rider in the Alpe d'Huez or GC top10.

 

[Netserk]

Yes, while the rest of the team was doping to the max, Sastre led them all clean.

I'll give him credit for making it seem believable, but I won't stick even my toe out that he was clean.

I hope you are aware that Fermi didn't back him to be clean, but that he'd back him before the others.

Same way I'd back Freire before Bettini, despite the fact that I think both are dopers.

EDIT: Too slow

 

[roundabout]

In relative terms... I don't for one second believe there was a clean rider in the Alpe d'Huez or GC top10.

Geez, this is getting into Ullrich confession territory. Hardly an endorsement.

And JV wasn't talking relative terms.

 

[roundabout]

Oh, and the last GT where I would pick Sastre to be cleaner would be the 1999 Giro. Finished well south of the top-50 in that one.

Edit: the helpful google puts him 101st.

 

[Taxus4a]

The clinic most definetely swims against the tide.

Doping is by and large ignored by most fans, most federations and more importantly most sport media.

So to correct you again the Clinic and those who post about the doping in cycling are swimming against the tide.

You on the other hand are an omerta poster.

You are the tide, and you are like a dictatorship. I have been banned in a forum just to say the same as a lot of people here. I have been always againts omertá, you are not going to give me any lesson of antidoping,

But today there is no omertá.

Media, in Spain at least, only talk in cycling about doping, even today.

Clinic is the place to talk in this forum about doping, and here it is a luck there are a place where is not possible to talk about doping.
Not a place that belong to some people or thinking.

It is good to talk about doping, about conspiracies, that has been good for cycling IMO, but in a free way, nor in a way that in you dont think like me you are an omertá poster and stupid things like that. Do you have any proof or evidence beyond the usual topics to say that, and for that consider troll or omertá the other people?

Dont be troll people that in an era in wich there are a lot of evidence of change, are still thinking in the way we should think 10 years ago for every thing or new that happen today?

For me defend SKy, is defend clean cycling for the things I know from inside cycling, so I am going to defend at least the possibility of SKy being clean again wind and tide of the dictatorship.

 

[Ripper]

How is the defence of Sky and clean cycling (LMAO ... burp) even making its way into this thread?

OT trolling is even worse than regular trolliage.

 

[DirtyWorks]

You are the tide, and you are like a dictatorship.

But today there is no omertá.

Dont be troll people that in an era in wich there are a lot of evidence of change, are still thinking in the way we should think 10 years ago for every thing or new that happen today?

Haha! We know! They are on their bikes busting their @ss 6 hours a day and the most tested athletes, blah, blah, blah.. Cleanest peloton ever.

What year is this because it feels like oh, maybe 2001?

 

[Taxus4a]

How is the defence of Sky and clean cycling (LMAO ... burp) even making its way into this thread?

OT trolling is even worse than regular trolliage.

It would be nice that people that use this kind of argument, and call troll to other people just to give his opinion would be banned some time.

I am here to give my opinion and of how I see cycling today, not to defend any Team or something similar, and I am free to write in any thread.

I have follow cycling the last 30 years and I have things to say as well as others.

I try always to analyze and give arguments, but people as you dont know more than attack the other opinion without arguments, or just call troll if you have anything more to say.

It would be nice that moderators stop this kind of things. Even it is his own opinion or even go againts the majority opinion. It would say a lot about him that kind to be so objetive.

Anyway, if they dont default any rules, I undestand.

Other way, I will ignore it. To do the same would be worse, It is not fair, but...

I would like to talk just of cycling, I hope so.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I have been banned in a forum just to say the same as a lot of people here

That's not the whole story is it? ...some of us might also be a member there anyways that is another place/forum so no need to bring it up.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I am here to give my opinion and of how I see cycling today, not to defend any Team or something similar, and I am free to write in any thread.

I have follow cycling the last 30 years and I have things to say as well as others.

Meanwhile, your position does not change despite the many facts presented for you to consider.

Are we just supposed to ignore 20 years of scandal and say, "Oh, that Taxus4a is right. I guess the doping problem is solved despite evidence everywhere to the contrary."

That's not a forum, that's an echo chamber.