Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[86TDFWinner]

I have no proof and do not claim I have it. This is why I do not claim anything about Evans (or anyone else for that matter).

.

I'm confused. However, you DO come across in that post, as you're 100% certain the entire team is/has doped, including Cadel, or why did you say such(and you DID say such, go back and re-read it) If you don't know either way, how can you insinuate that he and the entire team doped, if you have no proof he/they did or didn't? That's indeed what you said and claimed in that post, that's why I'm asking.

 

[86TDFWinner]

^^^^
Do you honestly believe Lemond was clean ha ha ha 3 TDF wins riding clean oh my god, he may not have been as bad but he took something they all did back then. You cant just say he is clean becuse Lemond said so lol, they all say it.

Lol, and do you honestly believe he doped? AGAIN, please post your 100%
FACTUAL, Indisputable/VERIFIABLE PROOF he doped as you claim?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

^^^^
Do you honestly believe Lemond was clean ha ha ha 3 TDF wins riding clean oh my god, he may not have been as bad but he took something they all did back then. You cant just say he is clean becuse Lemond said so lol, they all say it.

You must be born in 1991.

 

[86TDFWinner]

You must be born in 1991.

LOL, indeed. I can't wait to read the "well, uh, I have no proof LeMond doped, but my best friends, sisters, husbands, nephews, step uncle in law told me he did" from Tank.

 

[86TDFWinner]

^^^^
Do you honestly believe Lemond was clean ha ha ha 3 TDF wins riding clean oh my god, he may not have been as bad but he took something they all did back then. You cant just say he is clean becuse Lemond said so lol, they all say it.

By the way Tank, since you brought it up, we need : dates/times/ what drugs he took/who administered said drugs/dope to him, who else saw him take them(and it can't be your dog), whatever you post, has to be 100% factual and proof that he did what you claim. We need to verify it too.

 

[Franklin]

I'm confused. However, you DO come across in that post, as you're 100% certain the entire team is/has doped, including Cadel, or why did you say such(and you DID say such, go back and re-read it) If you don't know either way, how can you insinuate that he and the entire team doped, if you have no proof he/they did or didn't? That's indeed what you said and claimed in that post, that's why I'm asking.

I do not say that at all.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1245144&postcount=764

I say that Cadel rode for teams with a very bad track record and that is very problematic to match with a clean rider.

Nowhere do I say the whole team dopes or that Cadel dopes.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I do not say that at all.

Im confused again...here, you allude to it:

Evans simply never rode for a team that can be regarded as clean. That's no proof at all, but it's troublesome all the same.

I say that Cadel rode for teams with a very bad track record and that is very problematic to match with a clean rider.

Nowhere do I say the whole team dopes or that Cadel dopes.

You do, and you highlighted it too.

- BMC has a truly dirty record (in the past, but the team structure seems to be the same).

Again, you kinda/sorta say that he's doped simply by association with him being on a "dirty team", as to say that because of his association with that team, he should be assumed as a doper. Thats what I took from it, pardon me if that wasn't your intent. By saying "BMC has a truly dirty record", you are essentially saying/insinuating that the entire team is/was/has doped/been doping. Now, if it were just a few riders, then please state that, but when you say the entire team has a dirty record, and you dont post factual proof that can back that up, it comes off to many as you saying that both Cadel and the ENTIRE BMC team is/was dirty. I dont recall Taylor or Teejay being busted for or admitting to doping, so that would shoot down your theory on the entire team doping. If you have proof otherwise, please post it.


Just saying.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Just saying.

The BMC staff has a truly dirty record, better?

Dont get so wind up when US riders are involved at a team where dirty people are employed.

 

[rata de sentina]

I say that Cadel rode for teams with a very bad track record and that is very problematic to match with a clean rider.

I don't agree with the general premise of this. For a start there are not too many teams that you could say were "clean" with sufficient confidence to say that someone coming from them was probably clean.

Certainly there are teams that were definitely dirty (ie had a program etc) and more so for certain races but even those there are some examples that we know of who rode on those teams and were probably clean.

In the middle there were the bulk of the teams who may or may not have encouraged or facilitated or tolerated doping. I don't think apart from some at the extremes of the spectrum that you can use most teams as some kind of clue about individuals on them.

 

[blackcat]

no teams could be regarded to be clean. even jv would admit this after he had a handful of riders banned for 6 months for "pre-2006" infractions.

if you use the phrase "regarded as clean teams" you just expose yourself to be daft and gullible.

 

[86TDFWinner]

no teams could be regarded to be clean. even jv would admit this after he had a handful of riders banned for 6 months for "pre-2006" infractions.

if you use the phrase "regarded as clean teams" you just expose yourself to be daft and gullible.

Thank you both, that's basically what I was asking/saying too. No disrespect to Franklin & I wasn't trying to come off ******y, I was

 

[86TDFWinner]

The BMC staff has a truly dirty record, better?

Dont get so wind up when US riders are involved at a team where dirty people are employed.

I have no doubt many teams are filled with dopers, past and possibly present my friend. I just didn't understand how it can be said that the entire team could be labeled clean or dirty, based on a few riders. I admittedly like Cadel & enjoyed watching him won the Tour. But if its found out he's doped like the rest of them, then I'll have lost all respect for Cadel.

I can't say today if I know 100% either way if teams/riders are/arent doping. W/o proof, no one knows. Its purely speculation.


No worries bud, no disrespect intended for Franklin, just was curious

 

[IndianCyclist]

I have no doubt many teams are filled with dopers, past and possibly present my friend. I just didn't understand how it can be said that the entire team could be labeled clean or dirty, based on a few riders. I admittedly like Cadel & enjoyed watching him won the Tour. But if its found out he's doped like the rest of them, then I'll have lost all respect for Cadel.

I can't say today if I know 100% either way if teams/riders are/arent doping. W/o proof, no one knows. Its purely speculation.


No worries bud, no disrespect intended for Franklin, just was curious

There is circumstantial evidence linking him with Ferrari for training. But there is some conclusions that can be drawn from his performances towards him being clean as well. If he is bad in a GT, he doesn't get miraculously super strong and win the next day. He continues to be bad unlike lot of other dopers. Ergo he looks clean from his performances.

 

[climb4fun]

Hopefully Gilbert and Hushovd will be adapted to the BMC system this year.

 

[pmcg76]

I don't agree with the general premise of this. For a start there are not too many teams that you could say were "clean" with sufficient confidence to say that someone coming from them was probably clean.

Certainly there are teams that were definitely dirty (ie had a program etc) and more so for certain races but even those there are some examples that we know of who rode on those teams and were probably clean.

In the middle there were the bulk of the teams who may or may not have encouraged or facilitated or tolerated doping. I don't think apart from some at the extremes of the spectrum that you can use most teams as some kind of clue about individuals on them.

The simple way to refute the dirty teams association's is to point to Marco Pinotti.

Paul Kimmage has stated that Pinotti is the rider he has most faith in, look at his team history!!! So either Kimmage is a complete idiot or the dirty team's thing doesn't really mean as much as some on here try to make out.

If someone says cycling is incapable of changing because of the people involved and the rewards involved, point to Lfdjeux and Marc Madiot and ask are they the same type of team they were pre-Festina.

Whatever the generalisation, there will always be an exception or two.

 

[blackcat]

i dont believe in pinotti nor moncoutie. i believe in the guys who left the sport before riding pro

 

[Taxus4a]

i dont believe in pinotti nor moncoutie. i believe in the guys who left the sport before riding pro

Do you know something inside cycling?

I know a lot of riders riding clean, you have no idea.

But it is ok, you give your opinion, that is not bad. I find stupid you like cycling or you follow it thinking that.



About Evans, I put here what I put in other thread, I agree with the first post about Hamilton's words, why not to be?


The talented riders as him os Sastre dont need doping to be up there in a GT.
Of course in the dark era, they didnt win anything important, it was after OP at least.

Evans was one more in Telekom, behind the leaders, Sastre was a domestique of Basso when for talent had to be the contrary (although they have similar).

Kroon write in his book, Sastre didnt dope for the depression of Chava Jimenez's dead.

Evans has been always clean, and that is the motive that I think that in a cleaner era he is getting his best results, and still today he can win the Tour (if he has not heath problems as last year, or 2010 Giro, etc...)

Santambrogio cant beat Nibali even dope, Jose Belda cant beat Quintana in Madrid even superdope.

Valverde as well has a big talent, but he doped, I would say the same for Contador, he is talented, if he is not better this year must be more than no doping, but I cant believe him in 2009 at least.

For some people EPO or transfusions are not a big adventage, for others a lot.

 

[JRTinMA]

Do you know something inside cyling?

I know a lot of riders riding clean, you have no idea.

But it is ok, you give your opinion, that is not bad. I find stupid you like cycling or you follow it thinking that.



About Evans, I put here what I put in other thread, I agree with the first post about Hamilton's words, why not to be?


The talented riders as him os Sastre dont need doping to be up there in a GT.
Of course in the dark era, they didnt win anything important, it was after OP at least.

Evans was one more in Telekom, behind the leaders, Sastre was a domestique of Basso when for talent had to be the contrary (although they have similar).

Kroon write in his book, Sastre didnt dope for the depression of Chava Jimenez's dead.

Evans has been always clean, and that is the motive that I think that in a cleaner era he is getting his best results, and still today he can win the Tour (if he has not heath problems as last year, or 2010 Giro, etc...)

Santambrogio cant beat Nibali even dope, Jose Belda cant beat Quintana in Madrid even superdope.

Valverde as well has a big talent, but he doped, I would say the same for Contador, he is talented, if he is not better this year must be more than no doping, but I cant believe him in 2009 at least.

For some people EPO or transfusions are not a big adventage, for others a lot.

Good job regressing on structure but make sure to misspell a few words.

 

[Ferminal]

Sastre 39-flat Alpe d'Huez clean. Greatest cyclist ever?

 

[Gregga]

The talented riders as him os Sastre dont need doping to be up there in a GT.
Of course in the dark era, they didnt win anything important, it was after OP at least.

Evans was one more in Telekom, behind the leaders, Sastre was a domestique of Basso when for talent had to be the contrary (although they have similar).

Kroon write in his book, Sastre didnt dope for the depression of Chava Jimenez's dead.

Please stop trolling and watch again the DVD's of the 2008 TdF.
Sastre was average for two weeks and then 'bang' cracks the best time since Landis on Alpe d'Huez and only loses a few seconds in the ITT on Evans. Watch him attacking from the first hairpin at the bottom of the Alpe and try to understand what it probably means : his "chess move" (Hamilton) was a blood bag the day before (maybe he had only one) knowing it was a single shot advantage, he used it just where it would be the most useful, the Alpe climb. Pantani or Virenque in the nineties or Contador in 2009 showed us how powerful blood doping was in the last ITT for a climber.

 

[hrotha]

You're wasting your time, folks.

 

[Taxus4a]

Sastre 39-flat Alpe d'Huez clean. Greatest cyclist ever?

39 and a half. Yes, it is hard to believe, and more in a stage with Galibier (south, less hard) and Croix de Fer, and a solo attack, but that is not 37.
Sastre was saving energy that Tour to focus in that attack.

I saw again yesterday Mayo´s climb and Sastre's. Mayo did just half a minute better, but after his attack, he was flying in a very hot day with Galibier north, even at the end he celebrates a lot... Sastre was good all the climb, but never flying.

You has to assume Sastre is as good as Pantani or even better (the same for Evans), but, why not?, Pantani 40 htc is quite small for a big cyclist.

I will see the video again, to consider wind, in Alpe D Huez wind it is not important, but always a factor.

I have some facts to dont believe Sastre is clean, nor just Alp D huez, but I have as well strong facts to think he was clean.

 

[Ferminal]

2006... 39'01"

Was he saving energy there too? For his dominance on La Toussuire and Joux Plane?

 

[Benotti69]

The simple way to refute the dirty teams association's is to point to Marco Pinotti.

Paul Kimmage has stated that Pinotti is the rider he has most faith in, look at his team history!!! So either Kimmage is a complete idiot or the dirty team's thing doesn't really mean as much as some on here try to make out.

If someone says cycling is incapable of changing because of the people involved and the rewards involved, point to Lfdjeux and Marc Madiot and ask are they the same type of team they were pre-Festina.

Whatever the generalisation, there will always be an exception or two.

Kimmage got Bernard Kohls 2008 wrong.

No one is perfect.

 

[Taxus4a]

2006... 39'01"

Was he saving energy there too? For his dominance on La Toussuire and Joux Plane?

Sucking wheel? It is not the same.

Anyway it is just a possibility, I as well find hard to believe those perfomances.

I have seen again 2008 and there is tail wind half of the climb, and cross wind the other half:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jXvKQ2MVCw

You can see i.e at 1:45 how the wind is clearly in the direction of the climb.