Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[Ferminal]

motomissus

 

[blackcat]

What is different between now and the first week of Tour 2012 or Giro 2013? Wait until final week before concluding he's back on the bags.

horner has ridiculousised (creating the verb) procycling. evans keeps it on the realistic side of the spectrum. he fades. I have shorted him on betfair. gonna win a bundle from gullible Australian fangirls like AusCyclingFan94. She reminds me of House and Chris H and Whareagle (whareagle wrt cuckolded Lyler Hamilton).

 

[blackcat]

motomissus

Chiara the pianist. in her defense, shes no Adita Rumsus, or is it radita? whatever. Fassa Bortolo sporned some riders and a young petacchi the sprinter, when before he was more a chancer like ogrady

 

[darwin553]

Evans right now. 37 years old. Just ridiculous

Must really hurt you to admit that he's clean and always has been!

 

[thrawn]

There's nothing that suspicious about his result yesterday. If he keeps it up for the 3 weeks then it'd be hell dodgy.

 

[oldcrank]

Evans right now. 37 years old. Just ridiculous

My friend, it is often surprising what happens when a person
decides not to hide under a pseudonym on twitter and write
that sort of thing, but get off their arses in their own lives
and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve
something. Below is a video of a 58 year young grandmother
warming up for a polevault competition. Kay is the opposite
of bone idle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4TlMHl9sAQ

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Screams HRT to me.

 

[Afrank]

There's nothing that suspicious about his result yesterday. If he keeps it up for the 3 weeks then it'd be hell dodgy.

I'd have to agree, at this point nothing too vastly abnormal. Plus it is still early (his age will be more a factor in the 2nd and 3rd week) and it was a pretty good stage for him (profile suits him).

Not that I think he's clean, but his performance thus far isn't the kind I would take as evidence of doping.

 

[blackcat]

seems the peleton's depth is as week as the economy in greece and italy, and the italian cycling team economy. i cant remember a Giro when the teams were so unimpressive

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'd have to agree, at this point nothing too vastly abnormal. Plus it is still early (his age will be more a factor in the 2nd and 3rd week) and it was a pretty good stage for him (profile suits him).

Not that I think he's clean, but his performance thus far isn't the kind I would take as evidence of doping.

One of the key metrics since the introduction of EPO is the third week power estimates being meaningfully greater than weeks 1 and 2. To be clear, I'm not attributing it directly to EPO, just that recovery doping technology dramatically improved over old fashioned steroid boom->bust performances.

It's also worth mentioning the hole in the bio-passport a freight train can fit through. Horner's published profile being the gold standard example.

Finally, the old anecdote of the real test of a grand tour rider begins after the tenth day. Very many days to go before we see all kinds of cumulative effects.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

One of the key metrics since the introduction of EPO is the third week power estimates being meaningfully greater than weeks 1 and 2. To be clear, I'm not attributing it directly to EPO, just that recovery doping technology dramatically improved over old fashioned steroid boom->bust performances.

It's also worth mentioning the hole in the bio-passport a freight train can fit through. Horner's published profile being the gold standard example.

Finally, the old anecdote of the real test of a grand tour rider begins after the tenth day. Very many days to go before we see all kinds of cumulative effects.

One of the key metrics in any athletic endeavour that with respect you and Afrank are overlooking is psychological momentum. Michael Mathews win in the 6th stage of the Giro is a classic example. At the start of the Giro, Orica had hoped to only win the TTT. However after 4 days in pink, Mathews was inspired to today's win.

His comment after the win is instructive,

"Orica-GreenEdge’s big initial objective in the Giro d'Italia was the team time trial, but since then Matthews has, as he says, "kept the pink ball rolling" in style."

The same can be said for Evans. He gained GC time, and if after 10 stages he is in striking distance of winning I anticipate his performances will have everything to do with desire and motivation and nothing to do with your speculations he is on EPO.

In my respectful opinion both you and Afrank are overlooking one of the hard core psychological knowns in sport - the will to win. And in Evans case should he win, it will have nothing to do with dope.

 

[Afrank]

One of the key metrics in any athletic endeavour that with respect you and Afrank are overlooking is psychological momentum. Michael Mathews win in the 6th stage of the Giro is a classic example. At the start of the Giro, Orica had hoped to only win the TTT. However after 4 days in pink, Mathews was inspired to today's win.

His comment after the win is instructive,

"Orica-GreenEdge’s big initial objective in the Giro d'Italia was the team time trial, but since then Matthews has, as he says, "kept the pink ball rolling" in style."

The same can be said for Evans. He gained GC time, and if after 10 stages he is in striking distance of winning I anticipate his performances will have everything to do with desire and motivation and nothing to do with your speculations he is on EPO.

In my respectful opinion both you and Afrank are overlooking one of the hard core psychological knowns in sport - the will to win. And in Evans case should he win, it will have nothing to do with dope.

"Sooner or later, the man who wins. Is the fellow who thinks he can."

I completely agree with you on the role that motivation plays in sport. you need motivation to win. You can be the strongest rider out there, but that doesn't mean you can still get your a$$ kicked by the guy that has more motivation then you.

But just having motivation and will is no proof of cleanliness. And a rider can still be one of the most motivated and have one of the strongest wills to win of anyone, and still be on drugs like his competitors.

 

[Archibald]

One of the key metrics in any athletic endeavour that with respect you and Afrank are overlooking is psychological momentum. Michael Mathews win in the 6th stage of the Giro is a classic example. At the start of the Giro, Orica had hoped to only win the TTT. However after 4 days in pink, Mathews was inspired to today's win.

His comment after the win is instructive,

"Orica-GreenEdge’s big initial objective in the Giro d'Italia was the team time trial, but since then Matthews has, as he says, "kept the pink ball rolling" in style."

The same can be said for Evans. He gained GC time, and if after 10 stages he is in striking distance of winning I anticipate his performances will have everything to do with desire and motivation and nothing to do with your speculations he is on EPO.

In my respectful opinion both you and Afrank are overlooking one of the hard core psychological knowns in sport - the will to win. And in Evans case should he win, it will have nothing to do with dope.

I've always wondered how much of that ITT in 2011's tour was that desire to finally do it and put it all out there, or whether there was more to it.
I do believe he does have very big competitive streak, never say die attitude, etc...
And notwithstanding the other side of Andy being;
a) sh*t, and
b) Andy's recover excuse of spending 2-3hrs sitting around doping control trying to pee and freezing, while Cuddles was having dinner and getting a massage...

 

[The Hitch]

In my respectful opinion both you and Afrank are overlooking one of the hard core psychological knowns in sport - the will to win. And in Evans case should he win, it will have nothing to do with dope.

Maybe one day you will understand that will to win can only take an athlete so far and that there is not a atom of evidence that the will to win of a clean athlete is any greater than that of a doped one.

The way you always talk, an athlete with a sufficiently large will to win would be able to train 15 hours a day.

The reality is the body begins to shut down after a certain amount of effort and training becomes counterproductive. In fact an athlete who is taking peds will be able to train longer and harder because drugs will allow the body to recover in a way that simply wishing it will not.

You don't raise your hematocrit by 20% simply by thinking - oh I really want my hematocrit to go up and voila. No more than I can make a billion dollars appear by my side simply by wishing it. But hey, maybe contador and Evans can, seeing as they have such strong willpower they already transcend biology. What chance does physics have

Edit, lol no posts in 6 hours then 3 in the space of seconds.

 

[The Hitch]

Rhetorical question.

Who has the bigger will to win

Athlete a) "I would do anything to win."

Athlete b) "I'd Do Anything for win (But I Won't Do That)"

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

What is different between now and the first week of Tour 2012 or Giro 2013? Wait until final week before concluding he's back on the bags.

Good point, but, gotta say, BMC look completely different to last two years. Did they get tactical training by Bobby J.?

 

[ralphbert]

Cadel is as clean as my undies. ie Not very. I like him tho, especially when defending his dog. Poetry.

 

[Ripper]

Maybe one day you will understand that will to win can only take an athlete so far and that there is not a atom of evidence that the will to win of a clean athlete is any greater than that of a doped one.

The way you always talk, an athlete with a sufficiently large will to win would be able to train 15 hours a day.

The reality is the body begins to shut down after a certain amount of effort and training becomes counterproductive. In fact an athlete who is taking peds will be able to train longer and harder because drugs will allow the body to recover in a way that simply wishing it will not.

You don't raise your hematocrit by 20% simply by thinking - oh I really want my hematocrit to go up and voila. No more than I can make a billion dollars appear by my side simply by wishing it. But hey, maybe contador and Evans can, seeing as they have such strong willpower they already transcend biology. What chance does physics have

Edit, lol no posts in 6 hours then 3 in the space of seconds.

Moreover, this whole 'will to win' nonsense suggests dopers are just lazy. Does anyone actually think folks like Pharmstrong did not have a very strong will to win? I'd say sometimes this 'will' leads people down the wrong path.

 

[Archibald]

I'm not disagreeing with what's said here, but I can see where RB is coming from...
When I raced MTB XC I was told to win you need to want it more than the next guy. The one who hurts the most wins.
There are two points of that desire to get there;
1. you keep driving til you body just can't get you any faster/further,
2. your mind goes "stuff this, I'm f**k'd" and you sit up

Evans is the first more than the second, but that still doesn't mean he'll beat all before him under that mindset

i don't believe Quintana or Uran are worried because they will flog him in the third week by more than 2 minutes

 

[AcademyCC]

Rhetorical question.

Who has the bigger will to win

Athlete a) "I would do anything to win."

Athlete b) "I'd Do Anything for win (But I Won't Do That)"

Here here. Great point, The athlete that will do anything to win is obviously the one most likely to dope.

Its a difference of personal standards, not will to win.

 

[42x16ss]

"Sooner or later, the man who wins. Is the fellow who thinks he can."

I completely agree with you on the role that motivation plays in sport. you need motivation to win. You can be the strongest rider out there, but that doesn't mean you can still get your a$$ kicked by the guy that has more motivation then you.

But just having motivation and will is no proof of cleanliness. And a rider can still be one of the most motivated and have one of the strongest wills to win of anyone, and still be on drugs like his competitors.

If anything, increased motivation and will can lead to a rider being increasing motivated and willing to look for that extra "edge". IMHO guys like LA and Hamilton are perfect examples of this.

 

[Ferminal]

Good point, but, gotta say, BMC look completely different to last two years. Did they get tactical training by Bobby J.?

I'd say it's more down to Peiper's "strong leadership".

Two Giri out of three for him if he really did manage to "motivate" Evans.

 

[SundayRider]

Moreover, this whole 'will to win' nonsense suggests dopers are just lazy. Does anyone actually think folks like Pharmstrong did not have a very strong will to win? I'd say sometimes this 'will' leads people down the wrong path.

I agree - stronger will to win = more likely to dope, especially in a sport like cycling.

 

[darwin553]

The thing in Cadel's favour is his appearance. Someone that looks like he is putting that much effort into every climb has to be clean

 

[Benotti69]

The thing in Cadel's favour is his appearance. Someone that looks like he is putting that much effort into every climb has to be clean

Oh, yeah, those riders collapsing at the end of stages really give you that clean feeling, I am thinking of Roche and Kohl in particular