Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[movingtarget]

Sure...clean. Then, he like others (Thor) come down with a mysterious "infection" and lose an entire next season basically after a stellar year in their careers.

And this proves what ? Gilbert was having an ordinary season until the Vuelta. Hushovd had an illness which doctors had a hard time diagnosing ? This is not uncommon for doctors. Evans had ongoing sinus issues which are bad enough for non athletes. He rode the Tour with a virus and finished seventh which was pretty good I would think. Contador had a sinus operation a few years go. Evans tried to do it without the operation. Obviously not successfully. Not everything is a conspiracy. Athletes actually get sick as well.

 

[Ripper]

First off, I have no idea if Evans is clean.

However, here is a thought. We know if you are a true GT threat, you are one from roughly day one. See a young Lemond and those before him.

Perhaps Evan's capacities have actually been declining over the past 5 years. The reason why he looks to be improving is that the peloton is getting cleaner. In other words, rather than being a top 10 rider, he was actually a podium rider/winner during the more rampant early 2000's.

Of course, BMC et al are hardly spotless

 

[movingtarget]

Contador didn't show anything suspicious in 2010 Tour and still got caught. In fact, he was bad enough that Andy almost beat him.

It doesn't matter if you jumped out in performance or not. It still doesn't mean you didn't dope. That's how bad Cycling has become.

Wake up.

By that logic, everyone is doping and I don't believe that.

 

[movingtarget]

First off, I have no idea if Evans is clean.

However, here is a thought. We know if you are a true GT threat, you are one from roughly day one. See a young Lemond and those before him.

Perhaps Evan's capacities have actually been declining over the past 5 years. The reason why he looks to be improving is that the peloton is getting cleaner. In other words, rather than being a top 10 rider, he was actually a podium rider/winner during the more rampant early 2000's.

Of course, BMC et al are hardly spotless

It's possible. Who is spotless ?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

First off, I have no idea if Evans is clean.

However, here is a thought. We know if you are a true GT threat, you are one from roughly day one. See a young Lemond and those before him.

Perhaps Evan's capacities have actually been declining over the past 5 years. The reason why he looks to be improving is that the peloton is getting cleaner. In other words, rather than being a top 10 rider, he was actually a podium rider/winner during the more rampant early 2000's.

Of course, BMC et al are hardly spotless

Sadly, we will never know. He truly could have been a multiple GC winner were things cleaner but then again he could be a Ferrari improved subject.

 

[Ferminal]

And this proves what ? Gilbert was having an ordinary season until the Vuelta. Hushovd had an illness which doctors had a hard time diagnosing ? This is not uncommon for doctors. Evans had ongoing sinus issues which are bad enough for non athletes. He rode the Tour with a virus and finished seventh which was pretty good I would think. Contador had a sinus operation a few years go. Evans tried to do it without the operation. Obviously not successfully. Not everything is a conspiracy. Athletes actually get sick as well.

Evans was very good in the first week of the Tour, 99% as good as 2011 first week.

 

[the asian]

Just impossible Cadel was clean in 2007, he was too close to Contador for that, was he clean he wouldn't have been able to challenge him in the third week.
Maybe cleaner in 2011, but doping just in order not to collapse in the third week, as many other riders IMHO.

"From performance doping to recovery doping", in french http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/dossierdefond/2012-06-05-cyclisme-dopage.htm

Could be close to the truth. Cadel has links with Ferrari, and probably would have doped heavily until around 2008.

These days, IMO he's less dirty and is most probably engaging in recovery doping as you say.

 

[datalore]

By that logic, everyone is doping and I don't believe that.

No. By that logic, anyone could be doping, which is true.

 

[TheEnoculator]

By that logic, everyone is doping and I don't believe that.

I didn't say everyone is doping, don't put words in my mouth.

I'm saying anyone in cycling could be doping, unless a criterion I have already stated in this thread. As bad as omerta it still is among riders and managers and DSs, no way Cycling has been much better than it was during the Armstrong years.

 

[Yingge]

Athletes actually get sick as well.

And when they do, we write them off as having failed to perform as we seem to expect them to be 100% healthy all the time. We don't seem to accept the "Not feeling well today" excuse - the same one that we trot out when we ring the boss telling him/her that we wont be coming to work today.

A lot of the prescription and over the counter drugs that us armchair cyclists take to deal with various illnesses would result in a positive test for an Athlete who is in the testing program, so they have to battle on without, and thus suffer the "poor form", "epic fail" statements etc that then get dished out.


As to Evans, I think his 2011 TdF victory was brought about by the fact that he was (for a change) healthy and crash free for the duration (the only recorded problem for him in 2011 was his knee back around Ardennes week), and had confidence in his team, who in turn had confidence in him, not to mention the problems that some competitors suffered (AC crashes, Wiggo, Vino, VDB crashed out, Sclecktet saga etc).

In 2008 he suffered from that crash, 2009 his brain talked him out of it after the crosswind split and TTT left him a few minutes adrift and I think he also was psyched out by AC, 2010 he crashed and suffered as a result. As to 2012, I think having had his win, the desire may not have been there as much, not to mention the lingering virus that seems to have got him as well as Gilbert and Hushvold.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Can anybody remind me what was that GT where he sort of suggested (innuendo) 'if these guys are doping how can I do anything'?

I have no idea what you're talking about, but that doesn't mean much. Sometimes athletes are just genuinely ****ed that their competitors are quite possibly OUTdoping them.

 

[cineteq]

I have no idea what you're talking about, but that doesn't mean much. Sometimes athletes are just genuinely ****ed that their competitors are quite possibly OUTdoping them.

I hear you. Some riders using just EPO patches while others are doing blood transfusions. Not fair.

I'm still looking for that short interview, he was in a bad mood...

 

[goggalor]

If the head of the AIS tested you between 1995 (18) and 1999 (22) and told you that you had the highest VO2max ever recorded at the AIS, with X W/kg, why would you then need to go to Ferrari to be tested to find out if you were capable of doing good things on the road.

Obviously I don't really know, but possibly because, as you say, Evans was already one of the best MTBers around. From Ferrari's website:

In the summer of 2000, I got a phone call from Tony Rominger: "There is this MTB vice-world champion, Cadel Evans, who would like to pass onto road racing. Since he's earning already quite well from his MTB activity, I'd like to know whether he has the skills to consider dedicating to road cycling full time and risk such a jump."

Aldo Sassi was there to help Conconi prepare Moser for the hour, along with Ferrari, Cecchini and others. They were assistants of Conconi's in Ferrara. eg: http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/2/16...on-the-causes-of-doping-francesco-conconi-and

Yeah, exactly, Sassi knew his stuff. He was definitely no Chris Carcmichael.

 

[babastooey]

I won't know for certain until the Australian anti-doping organization launches an investigation into him with the assistance of several teammates (Hincapie comes to mind now that he is so forthcoming). But it is hard to believe he is clean when everyone else was dirty.

I would say that the Spanish anti-doping organization needs to do the same with Contador, but clearly they don't care about stopping doping, what with Alberto's light sentence the last time. Can WADA initiate proceedings on their own?

 

[Cookster15]

Cadel has links with Ferrari, and probably would have doped heavily until around 2008.

Other than his links to Ferrari at the start of his road career (circa 2002 Giro) I don't see much reason since then to doubt him. Certainly nothing of substance other than Ferarri has been thrown up in this thread.

Soon after Ferrari he became associated with Aldo Sassi who has no such baggage.

In 2007 Evans got cleaned up by Chicken and AC on PDB. Nothing fishy about a clean rider with documented huge Lab scores at 22 years of age loosing 2 minutes in 5km to dopers. And don't you guys recall how everyone was bagging Evans at the time (and right up until his World's win) for sucking wheels. You'd be sucking wheels too if you were clean and trying to hang with dopers.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yeah, exactly, Sassi knew his stuff. He was definitely no Chris Carcmichael.

Sassi was an assistant to Conconi - the guy who melded EPO, HgH and testosterone so riders would not test positive.

 

[blackcat]

Sassi was definitely on the up. He was anti-doping. But there is a dissonance with performance, and dialing in the Brailsford marginal gains. Like D-Queued has said, marginal gains is the rounding error on the imrpovement from a comprehensive dope program.

Sassi= upstanding individual.

but, did Evans ever go to Ferrari? The only Aus rider who went to Ferrari that has publically admitted is dodger Rogers. The Dutch journo CyclingHeroes, said he had asked Evans at a training camp preseason for Telekom or when they became T-Mobile. 2002. After Mapei folded.

So, need to see if Evans ever siught Ferrari's advice. Remember his Europe manager slash agent, is Tony Rominger, a former athlete of Ferrari. And it was posited, Ferrari had a piece of Romingers management firm, which became, was taken over, by IMG (becoming their cycling division).

Guinness and Rob Arnold need to ask the hard questions, get it on record if he denies. Ofcourse, it would have been only for the training program <rolls eyes>

 

[Tinman]

I think having had his win, the desire may not have been there as much, not to mention the lingering virus that seems to have got him as well as Gilbert and Hushvold.

Don't forget the new kid affecting motivation and training intensity, and the hammering BMC got in the Dauphine as well as first week in France from team Sky. Enough to make you sit up after week one? Which, credit to Cadel, he didn't do.

 

[mr rendell]

Sassi was definitely on the up. He was anti-doping. But there is a dissonance with performance, and dialing in the Brailsford marginal gains. Like D-Queued has said, marginal gains is the rounding error on the imrpovement from a comprehensive dope program.

Sassi= upstanding individual.

but, did Evans ever go to Ferrari? The only Aus rider who went to Ferrari that has publically admitted is dodger Rogers. The Dutch journo CyclingHeroes, said he had asked Evans at a training camp preseason for Telekom or when they became T-Mobile. 2002. After Mapei folded.

So, need to see if Evans ever siught Ferrari's advice. Remember his Europe manager slash agent, is Tony Rominger, a former athlete of Ferrari. And it was posited, Ferrari had a piece of Romingers management firm, which became, was taken over, by IMG (becoming their cycling division).

Guinness and Rob Arnold need to ask the hard questions, get it on record if he denies. Ofcourse, it would have been only for the training program <rolls eyes>

I can confirm the hard questions have been asked to Cadel. I know that Evans' responses; although not incriminating, wouldn't have been been received too well - suspicion would have reigned.

The format the questions were asked in, prevents the "questioner" from publishing the responses.

 

[blackcat]

I can confirm the hard questions have been asked to Cadel. I know that Evans' responses; although not incriminating, wouldn't have been been received too well - suspicion would have reigned.

The format the questions were asked in, prevents the "questioner" from publishing the responses.

Fairfax did not wish to ask. The other beat journo (general sport who handled cycling in summer) did not wish to answer.

Arnold would not buy it, and wished to sell Evans biography he co-wrote.

Pity Evans cleft chin in the past 6 years has demonstrated physical signs of hgh supplementation, beyond what one could expect from catabolic 20k mile seasons, and the atrophy of intrafacial tissue and muscle. That would makes the weight loss on the face, but not the lengthening of the mandible.

 

[blackcat]

someone should ask Thomas Frei if his time on BMC coincided with any team leaders encouraging him to "get with the program". Just saying, perhaps Thomas or Tomas, has an answer to this. AusCyclingFan, you can do the honours and ask Frei for us. Thanks

 

[durianrider]

Anyone thinking any household name athlete in mainstream sports aint juiced to the gills to achieve their palmeres is very naive.

In NBA Basketball they didnt even bring steroids onto the testing list till 1999. Jordan was clean though cos he was a Nike idol though. http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=NBA/NBPA_Anti-Drug_Program_Prohibited_Substances

 

[auscyclefan94]

I'm not sure there was ever a clean George! He lied for two decades, what he says is more or less worthless, to me.

So basically when he says something you agree with, he is telling the truth (i.e. Armstrong), but when he is saying something I disagree with, he is telling lies (i.e. Evans)?

 

[hrotha]

So basically when he says something you agree with, he is telling the truth (i.e. Armstrong), but when he is saying something I disagree with, he is telling lies (i.e. Evans)?

What he says about Armstrong is corroborated by many other people and facts. What he says about Evans is much, much less definite.

 

[blackcat]

how long was he a shill for Armstrong ACF?

He shilled for StrongArm for a long time. Difference between Lance and Cadel is that one is a sociopath, the other is a stand-up guy, and solid citizen. And Cadel did have innate GC talent. But take off the rose coloured glasses ACF.