Cadel Evans - Whining little girl or Hyper GT Contender - Discuss

[lostincosmos]

i still like "both"....

i don't know why one rules out the other - you can be a big whining threat, right?

my issue with cadel is that he isn't a GT rider, in my mind, but that's what he's dedicated to. he need to focus on the dauphine and other 7-8 stage races, i think. why? without fail the man has one bad day in the mountains. it's not an "if" with him, it's just going to happen. 3 weeks appears to be too much for him and i don't see a GT win in his future.

don't get me wrong, kudos to his Giro dirt-win this year. just amazing guts he showed (though he was a mountain biker so he's prally used to muck). and good for him outgunning AC in that last 500 meters (again, AC wasn't breathing well, but cadel still went after it).

on a personal note, too, i just don't like they guy and find his world championship turn-around very very odd. he went from wheelsucking and a complete lack of balls to attacking and riding hard alone or with others.....and he's riding stronger than ever all of a sudden. if this only required a mental change from him (and i imply nothing else) then he's been a bigger *** than i thought he was all along

 

[Libertine Seguros]

When was the last time someone beat the crap out of Contador at an uphill section? I think before Cadel's victory at la flèche Wallone we'd have to go back to his bonk at Paris-Nice 2009.

I think it's being a bit generous to Cadel to say he beat the crap out of Contador. Contador made the same mistake Cadel made two years ago, when he was the strongest but mistimed his push and lost out. Cadel has learnt from his mistake and won this year; Contador is inexperienced in the classics and in correctly timing short climbs like Huy; beating Joaquím Rodríguez, who lives for those short sharp walls like Montelupone, was perhaps the bigger achievement.

And as for when was the last time before Flèche Wallonne? Less than two weeks earlier, at the Vuelta a Castilla y León, on the Alto del Morredero. Igor Antón, Ezequiel Mosquera and Juan Mauricio Soler combined to do a number on Contador, Antón eventually leaving the four-time GT winner (at the time) in the dust.

 

[El Pistolero]

I think it's being a bit generous to Cadel to say he beat the crap out of Contador. Contador made the same mistake Cadel made two years ago, when he was the strongest but mistimed his push and lost out. Cadel has learnt from his mistake and won this year; Contador is inexperienced in the classics and in correctly timing short climbs like Huy; beating Joaquím Rodríguez, who lives for those short sharp walls like Montelupone, was perhaps the bigger achievement.

And as for when was the last time before Flèche Wallonne? Less than two weeks earlier, at the Vuelta a Castilla y León, on the Alto del Morredero. Igor Antón, Ezequiel Mosquera and Juan Mauricio Soler combined to do a number on Contador, Antón eventually leaving the four-time GT winner (at the time) in the dust.

Ah could be, I normally don't watch small stage races like the Vuelta a Castilla y Léon. But you get my point. Winning a race like FW is nice and all, but winning it while beating someone who won 4 Grand Tours makes it all the more impressive.

Thing is, Contador still lost on la flèche Wallone because of his own fault. Inexperienced or not. Not doing a good enough reconnaissance for this part of the race is his own fault.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think timing an attack on the Mur de Huy is not a matter of reconnaissance, it's something you learn by trial and error and that really depends on the race at the time, who is with you, how your legs feel and so on.

Second part of Alto del Morredero, April 16th. Features Soler bridging across to the front trio (Contador, Antón, Mosquera) and then them outfoxing Contador:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiuHwNHM5L0&feature=related

 

[peloton]

Ah could be, I normally don't watch small stage races like the Vuelta a Castilla y Léon. But you get my point. Winning a race like FW is nice and all, but winning it while beating someone who won 4 Grand Tours makes it all the more impressive.

Thing is, Contador still lost on la flèche Wallone because of his own fault. Inexperienced or not. Not doing a good enough reconnaissance for this part of the race is his own fault.

Sure, but he followed the guy who had just beaten him on a MT finish a few weeks earlier, Anton, who did the first attack. Evans timed his attack perfectly this year.

I wouldnt say I have ever been anti or pro Cadel, yes he always seems to have an excuse when he doesnt perform well so I guess that constitutes whining. He was also a wheelsucker which I dont get upset about as some people do, however he deserves respect for his battling performances especially this past year.

I agree with the sentiment that he was a genuine GT contender but he has no chance of winning a Tour or even a Giro now, he could perhaps still win a Vuelta but aint gonna be this year so time is running out. 2008 was the year to win a GT for himself and he didnt do it and I dont think he can blame anyone else for that although he has tried.

The first thing I also thought of when I seen the thread title was ACF, his worshipping of Evans is just insane, I worry about people who are that obsessed with a sports figure. Sometimes, I thinks he posts with tongue fairly placed in cheek but then quite often I am not so sure. We love ACF really but it is worrying sometimes and very hard to resist baiting him.

+1
well said.

 

[Wallace]

I don't know how obsessed ACF is with Cadel, but a lot of people here seem very obsessed with ACF. I'd imagine that if he's reading this thread he probably finds it pretty hilarious. He casts a big shadow.

without fail the man has one bad day in the mountains. it's not an "if" with him, it's just going to happen. 3 weeks appears to be too much for him and i don't see a GT win in his future.

What was Cadel's bad day in the 2008 Tour? He lost that race because he didn't have any help in the mountains. And his bad day in last year's Vuelta was a botched wheel change--hardly his fault. If you look at his GT history, he's been hurt by not having the necessary team support to win a big tour a lot more than he has by any personal weakness.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm not sure about his always having a bad day; it seems to me more that he never used to have any kind of kick after a gruelling day in the mountains; he was always one who needed to ride tempo. Now, it's not that he didn't attack - this is an oft-perpetuated fallacy. But his attacks were infrequent and not often effective; it wasn't the style of rider that he was. It seems that as he became more au fait with racing in the mountains he's become more of a climber (he'll never be a natural - his climbing style is definitely awkward) and more capable of putting in those attacks that he used to be lacking. Or it may be that he was always capable of putting in those attacks, but his lack of confidence regards whether or not he could make those attacks stick, or perhaps a bit of nerves regarding knowing he would probably drop his teammates, but could he drop his opponents' teammates? probably hampered his willingness to utilise them.

On the other hand, after he lost that time in the Vuelta, he put in a total of 0 attacks. I only recall him attacking on Xorret del Catí, and no other times. It felt like he had his excuse for not winning, and then he was sulking. It seemed like he sulked his way up Mont Ventoux in the Dauphiné, but then he came roaring back with a dozen attempts to drop Valverde on the Col de la Madeleine, and Ally Vally nearly passed out at the finish line there.

It's a real shame for him that his attacking instinct and willingness to take those risks has kicked in after what could have been said to have been his peak years, his best chance to win that elusive Grand Tour. He has netted himself two more top 5s, perhaps the most epic GT stage in recent memory, a Worlds and a Classic out of it, so he's not had a bad haul, but it really is a saving grace in a palmarès that was way too sparse for a man of the talent he has.

 

[Angliru]

Ah could be, I normally don't watch small stage races like the Vuelta a Castilla y Léon. But you get my point. Winning a race like FW is nice and all, but winning it while beating someone who won 4 Grand Tours makes it all the more impressive.

Thing is, Contador still lost on la flèche Wallone because of his own fault. Inexperienced or not. Not doing a good enough reconnaissance for this part of the race is his own fault.

Kudos to Evans for his Fleche Wallone win BUT it took him 3 consecutive years of initiating his sprint on the Mur too early for him to time it just right this year. This was Contador's first serious stab at going for it in the classics (Ardennes), and as I recall most were surprised that he finished as well as he did.

 

[lostincosmos]

What was Cadel's bad day in the 2008 Tour? He lost that race because he didn't have any help in the mountains.

there's certainly some truth to that as he did have no help at all. and, the schleck/sastre duo were in a superior position that had cadel at a disadvantage.
but really, cadel spent the entire 2008 tour not doing anything....he rode wheels the entire time. and when sastre runs off up the mountain, cadel had absolutely nothing in him to chase. so i think Alpe d'Huez was his bad day, on top of lots of bad days where he just followed everyone.

you're right, of course, about the Vuelta - that was just bad luck. point granted.

but it just seems to me that every time i see the guy with a real shot at doing something, he drops the ball. that 2008 tour was his, and he lost it to two people who coldn't TT themselves to the store for milk. there's no winning instinct there, and i just don't see him digging deep. happened again at the tour this year - ok, his elbow was all hurty-n-stuff one day, but the day after he climbs with the best of them. and then vanishes after that on more bad climbing days. at least he prally had time to talk to lance and basso back there

this year's Giro however, there he seemed to really want something and have the spark a GT winner needs to have. but, as usual, one one of the climbs he just couldn't hack it and basso left him. yep, hard climb. but yep, once again, he just wasn't making it happen....

i don't dislike the guy, i just think he needs to be realistic. it's like Cunego - at one point you have to realize that you just aren't a full-on GC rider in the GTs.

 

[therealtimshady]

evans has come across as a nicer guy this year but,

sorry guys but he is still far too defensive - 2 attacks in major races in 10 years is not aggresive (gworld champs + giro when his chances were effectively over.

also i find it amusing how he grumbled about lack of support at lotto in the 2009 TDF and then promptly joined BMC who are even worse.

+ i will never forgive him for almost boring and ruining the 2008 TDF with his defensive racing when the tour was there for him to win it if he had been more aggresive + his behaviour that year was not great either.

it also annoys me that phil ligget and paul sherwin are always slated for their pro armstrong commentary but over here in england no-one seems to bat an eyelid when dave harmon goes on about evans every 30 seconds and especially annoying it was when he was daves "man of the day" when he lost 3 minutes to basso, scarponi and nibali in one of the later stages of the giro - how did you get to that conclusion dave?

however we have seen signs of improvement in attitude this year - i did feel sorry for him when he had the broken elbow in the tour and fair play to him he didnt moan about it or quit and just got on with it - so respect to him for that and hopefully this is the start of a new less miserable cadel

 

[theswordsman]

I think it's being a bit generous to Cadel to say he beat the crap out of Contador. Contador made the same mistake Cadel made two years ago, when he was the strongest but mistimed his push and lost out. Cadel has learnt from his mistake and won this year; Contador is inexperienced in the classics and in correctly timing short climbs like Huy; beating Joaquím Rodríguez, who lives for those short sharp walls like Montelupone, was perhaps the bigger achievement.

Cadel said after the race that his Director had taken him for recon on the climb for the first time ever, and he realized he'd been racing it wrong all those years.

I think he was also pretty close to 100% fit that week, where Contador delayed his normal mid-season vacation to ride the Ardennes Classics. It was more of an afterthought for him than a goal, but as a fan, it was tough to see him attack for what looked like a win and then finish third. But I don't expect to see many wins in one day races on his palmares.

 

[Ryaguas]

OMG ACF not here yet? I'm starting to get nervous...

 

[TheDude]

I'm pro-Cadel

I think he is totally man-enough for GT. That said, he really has a whining history. His team's haven't always been able to defend him, but bad form for coming out and blaming them. Also at what 32 now? he isn't likely to get better - only chance is to get smarter. Better planning and recon, strategy, etc. He has it in him, but is he ever going to do it, I don't know. Personally, I would say train for a Vuelta win, not the TdF.

 

[Angliru]

Evans is just as much a grand tour rider as Sastre, Menchov, Frank Schleck, Samuel Sanchez, Leipheimer and many others. If you finish the Tour on the second step twice then I believe that fortifies that you are a grand tour rider.

Evans problem is his choices of teams (Lotto and BMC) and his lack of tactical sense. A rider that attacks 10+ times repeatedly while his opponents are sitting on his wheel obviously has never heard of the element of surprise.
Additionally knowing that the 2 riders that he was trying to distance are more explosive climbers than himself, the likelihood of surprising Contador & Valverde was quite slim.

As far as his having absolutely no support, that is a bit of an exaggeration. There are 1000's of km's of flatland that his teammates have to shield him from the wind while at the same time fetch bottles and food. It's not like he's out there riding solo. Now in the mountains his plight wouldn't be so sad if not for his lack of support among the other riders in the professional ranks. Those dreaded Spaniards are always ganging up on Evans, making his life that much more complicated and difficult.

His choosing a Belgium team to pursue his goal of a Tour win was foolish in itself knowing their focus would be on the cobbled classics and thus leaving him with a team with multiple allegiances over the course of the season. Most top tier riders have the ability to recruit capable lieutenants to support them in the mountains. Evans had absolutely no pull in that area. I can only imagine that Dekker and Kohl were lured by the dollars and not by a strong desire to bury themselves to help carry Evans to the top step of the podium.
Of course both arrived at Lotto with serious skeletons in their closets and the rest is of course history.

Now you have BMC, a team making their sophomore effort in riding in the big leagues, with a team that seems strongly tilted in the direction of, yes, a strong cobbled classics team. What quality support in the mountains did Evans bring with him? It would appear to be a mirror image of the Lotto team that he just left. Curious choices but they appear to have motivated him and freed his mind to a certain degree.

As far as the never attacks critique, I have often been corrected by many forumites here with youtube footage (an extensive list of clips) chronicling Evans attacking and successfully time and time again. So in that instance I admittedly stand corrected and am guilty of ignorance.

 

[Nick777]

He has already proven himself as a GC contender, but maybe lacks the couple of % required to get over the line. I think he has 1 or two shots at a GC left - Giro or Vuelta next year & that will be it. If he could get through an entire tour without falling or getting sick at least once, it would help.

To many, Cadel will always be a disappointment, whether it is because of his racing style/accomplishments given his 'ability', or his prickly personality at the end of stages.

I'd still like to have his CV.

 

[Ferminal]

Why are we talking about Cuddles, he hasn't raced in a month and probably has 4-5 one day races left in the season and that's it.

Talk about beating a dead horse!

 

[blaxland]

What do we think. Is Cadel a whining little girl or does he have the cojones to "man up" as the parlance goes and become a serious GT contender?

Where have you been for the last 5 years or so....And his results both and the road and on the MTB speak for themselves...Obviously you and your friends haven't got a clue when it comes to pro cycling,otherwise a question like this wouldnt need to be asked......Evans is one of the hardmen of modern day cycling.

 

[PedalMasher]

The most impressive thing about Cadel this year has been the fact that the rainbow jersey has been visible in pretty much every race he's entered.

He's pulled on the front in the classics, rode some unbelievable days himself and has really raised the profile of what the world champion jersey means.

Agree with others here too, he may never win a TdF, but a Giro or Vuelta he has every possibility.

He's lightened up this year, maybe not as much as we would all like, but I for one have enjoyed his interviews this year.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I question how much of Cadel's "lack of a good team" is because of weakness in the team and how much has to do with his inability to lead and motivate those around him. He seems like a very closed in individual and I wonder what his teammates might have been able to do if he would have demanded it of them.

 

[step23]

Someone should add a poll to this thread. CE has been a good fighter this season and respected the rainbow jersey all the way.

 

[No_Balls]

Ah could be, I normally don't watch small stage races like the Vuelta a Castilla y Léon. But you get my point. Winning a race like FW is nice and all, but winning it while beating someone who won 4 Grand Tours makes it all the more impressive.

Thing is, Contador still lost on la flèche Wallone because of his own fault. Inexperienced or not. Not doing a good enough reconnaissance for this part of the race is his own fault.

Contador has won 5 GT´s (which i might add is pretty insane given his age).

 

[auscyclefan94]

SPAIN 1 v NEDERLANDS 0

Yes, the dutch are a bunch of babies who have double standards

From an eternal wheelsucking #2 to an attacking winner in his 30's right after signing for a pretty dubious team.

Now let's say he was from Spain....


....And now off to ACF

I have learnt to not take the bait from you.

Attacking Evans is a crime worthy of suffering a fate worse than death as far as ACF is concerned. His (I assume it's a he) love for Evans borders on the insane.

His racing is like a religion for me. Catholics go to church, ACF94 watches Cadel. the love is the same.

Best GT stage I've ever seen. Hell one of the best races I've ever seen. Al Cadel needs now are some decent victory salutes; his WC salute was horrible

I thought his WC salute was great. he did not need to throw his arms in the air to express his emotion of what a win that was. Waving and blowing a kiss to the crowd was all that what he felt he needed.

When someone refers to the object of their idolatry as "delicious Cadel" you can anticipate major fireworks once he gets wind of this thread. It's all quite entertaining to me personally. He's (ACF) a fairly normal person as well as one can have an opinon of someone from their posts of course with the exception of matters concerning his immortal beloved. OP do a search for some of his posts and you will get hint of what we speak. No one is intimidated or fearful of ACF by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree with the bolded part. ACF94 is a normal person. Love is completely normal and is not a crime to show it! In all seriousness, you'd be surprised how normal I am.

evans has come across as a nicer guy this year but,

sorry guys but he is still far too defensive - 2 attacks in major races in 10 years is not aggresive (gworld champs + giro when his chances were effectively over.

also i find it amusing how he grumbled about lack of support at lotto in the 2009 TDF and then promptly joined BMC who are even worse.

+ i will never forgive him for almost boring and ruining the 2008 TDF with his defensive racing when the tour was there for him to win it if he had been more aggresive + his behaviour that year was not great either.

it also annoys me that phil ligget and paul sherwin are always slated for their pro armstrong commentary but over here in england no-one seems to bat an eyelid when dave harmon goes on about evans every 30 seconds and especially annoying it was when he was daves "man of the day" when he lost 3 minutes to basso, scarponi and nibali in one of the later stages of the giro - how did you get to that conclusion dave?

however we have seen signs of improvement in attitude this year - i did feel sorry for him when he had the broken elbow in the tour and fair play to him he didnt moan about it or quit and just got on with it - so respect to him for that and hopefully this is the start of a new less miserable cadel

maybe you should learn a bit more about cycling before making comments like that.

let me make a clear statement about this thread. Just because all your favourite riders are dopers or are not as good as cadel does not mean you can bring him down. I find it quite amusing how some of you can make so forthright judgements of people when you only know them other the net. I don't have to reply to any of your idiotic comments which I have shut down and proved wrong in the past of cadel.

 

[Cerberus]

His racing is like a religion for me. Catholics go to church, ACF94 watches Cadel. the love is the same.

Illegal, involuntary and involving under-age boys?

 

[therealtimshady]

"maybe you should learn a bit more about cycling before making comments like that."

im not saying cadel is a bad rider - just a frustrating one who is still far too defensive in grand tours and then semms to get praise from commentators for doing so.
while i respect your opinion quoting what you did shows no respect for others

 

[Ferminal]

"maybe you should learn a bit more about cycling before making comments like that."

im not saying cadel is a bad rider - just a frustrating one who is still far too defensive in grand tours and then semms to get praise from commentators for doing so.
while i respect your opinion quoting what you did shows no respect for others

Yes, and attacking on the Zoncolan is just so easy!