Cancellara and his giant ego

[benpounder]

The race will not be won this week. But the less petrol Astana has in the tank in the final week the better the chances of anyone other than Astana stealing the overall.

Stealing the overall? Interesting way to put that.

I would love to see all other teams join forces against Astana... and then see the petulant bickering, and subsequent implosion about who did more to steal the GC. /snark

Actually what I see is a whole lot of Evans and Schlecklet fans ticked off that their favs cant make a dent into Astana's fab four. It may happen, but lamenting the multitude of fabricated excuses doesnt make your choice any faster.

 

[BroDeal]

Evans has tried really hard in the last 2 days to make something happen. All credit to him. I didn't really understand why he attacked on the flats today rather than on the slopes where the Astana unter-domestiques cannot so easily protect their big guns. Obviously there is no way Astana will let someone of his GC calibre get in a breakaway. The only realistic way I can see Astana getting beaten is if Evans, the Schlecks, Sastre, CVV, Wiggins and the juiced version of Menchov agree not to chase each other down and the work over the big 4 of Astana on the climbs. Even then they are probably racing for 2nd place as Contador would love nothing more than to bridge to a non-Astana GC contender up the road.

I think they would have to try a Hail Mary move that would only work if Contador and Armstrong have a jour sans. Teams like Cervelo, Silence-Lotto, Garmin, and Saxo would have to burn all their domestiques on the Tourmalet, shredding the peloton. After the domestiques were gone then the GC contenders themselves would have to be willing to set a vicious pace. If one of the Astana riders have a bad day then he gets dropped, the small group descends quickly and hammers all the way to the line, which is a long friggin way. The problem is that it could take a long time to finally crack one of the Astanas, and the ones trying such a move have just as good a chance of cracking as one of the Astanas. If it does not work then Evans, Sastre, and the Shreks end up--at the very least--burning a lot of matches. At worse some get dropped and the move backfires on them.

There is a lot of money in finishing in the top ten. Not so much outside the top ten. No one wants to risk blowing up and falling into the second tier of finishers.

 

[DavidT]

Agreed, there is no way they could implement such a strategy, for example, who gets to attack first and sacrifices himself? No, I'm afraid realistically its done - barring a maliciously spiked blood bag Bertie has it.

 

[msjett]

Agreed, there is no way they could implement such a strategy, for example, who gets to attack first and sacrifices himself? No, I'm afraid realistically its done - barring a maliciously spiked blood bag Bertie has it.

I was reading Cadels little tidbits about the race, and he said he went back to the team car to get water, and nearly got flattened by the Saxo team car. lol

So maybe that is one way, they can take out a few riders from Astana????........that being said, I wouldn't wish that kind of thing to happen to anyone, even if I don't like them.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Astana has it in the bag

I can see why Cadel attacked today. Look, when Andy Schleck attacked on the Agnes, AStana responed straight away to that attack and Schleck arguably has a bigger acceleration than Cadel. Sastre, Schlecks and Evans' team need to split the race apart and be ambitious to continually attack and put pressure on the other teams. Saxo and Cervelo and maybe Rabobank need to be ambitious like Lotto to try and win the race. Cancelara is an idiot if he thinks Cadel is not going to win that way because look at Landis. I know he is a cheat but Landis caught T-Mobile and Caisse D Epargne off guard and stole the victory away from them. What does Cancellara suggest on how to win the tour espcially when his team mate A Schleck isn't going to win the way he's riding?. It is going to be a boring race if they don't start attacking soon like they should of done on the past 2 stages.

 

[The Colnago Kid]

Stealing the overall? Interesting way to put that.

I would love to see all other teams join forces against Astana... and then see the petulant bickering, and subsequent implosion about who did more to steal the GC. /snark

Actually what I see is a whole lot of Evans and Schlecklet fans ticked off that their favs cant make a dent into Astana's fab four. It may happen, but lamenting the multitude of fabricated excuses doesnt make your choice any faster.

Stealing the overall ... it's just a colourful turn of phrase to indicate that someone other than the strongest team on paper manages to claim yellow on the final day.

The important thing to remember is that it is not about making 'a dent' but a succession of them. Many hands, many hammers. Kloden was the first of the fab 4 to lose a little of his shine, losing 23 seconds on Arcalis after the initial attack of Evans. I'd call that a dent.

Too many people think that the only way to win the Tour is with one dramatic gesture. The history books show us otherwise. Alliances, persistence, pluck, patience, luck and courage are all essential ingredients too.

As Paul Sherwen said in last night's commentary: "there are still three Sundays to race." Waiting until Ventoux is folly for every other team in the race. Constant pressure, constant attacks by many riders in order to wear Astana down is the only way. Silence-Lotto appear to be up for it. The question is whether Saxo-Bank, Columbia, Garmin and Rabobank are too.

 

[Cobblestones]

Evans and Schlecklet could have tried a move on the Col d'Agnes (in particular if Canc had still been ahead). Realistically, with Evans and possibly Canc digging deep, they might have had a fighting chance to stay away (even more so if they had a few others on board who could go for the stage win, or maybe Martin going with Evans and Schlecklet while Hincapie was waiting in front with Canc). They could have worked together with the aim to put time into Astana. The expectation would be that Evans could make up time on Schlecklet in the ITT. Of course, very likely, neither might have been able to gap the Astana train in the first place, so who knows whether that would have worked or not.

How it played out was that Evans's group had only a very small gap on the flats before the Col de Port, with no chance of surviving. Also, there was practically nothing in it for Saxo. I guess if Evans' group had had a gap of say 8' at that point, they wouldn't have rebelled. But as it was, the attack was doomed as long as Evans was in there.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Evans and Schlecklet could have tried a move on the Col d'Agnes (in particular if Canc had still been ahead). Realistically, with Evans and possibly Canc digging deep, they might have had a fighting chance to stay away (even more so if they had a few others on board who could go for the stage win, or maybe Martin going with Evans and Schlecklet while Hincapie was waiting in front with Canc). They could have worked together with the aim to put time into Astana. The expectation would be that Evans could make up time on Schlecklet in the ITT. Of course, very likely, neither might have been able to gap the Astana train in the first place, so who knows whether that would have worked or not.

How it played out was that Evans's group had only a very small gap on the flats before the Col de Port, with no chance of surviving. Also, there was practically nothing in it for Saxo. I guess if Evans' group had had a gap of say 8' at that point, they wouldn't have rebelled. But as it was, the attack was doomed as long as Evans was in there.

You make many valid points there but the other GC challengers need to ride with more agression like Cadel has been because they aren't going to win by sitting back and doing jack shyte to beat Astana.

 

[klodifan]

Poor Cadel Evans, even when the Australian does go on the attack his fellow escapees just tell him to get lost.

"I get in the breakaway and they carry on like three-year olds with a tantrum, saying, 'Err, get out of the group they are going to chase us'," said an aggravated Evans, sounding very much like a three-year-old in a tantrum.

Evans tried his luck on the first of stage nine's three climbs in a bid to win back some of the three minutes he lost in the opening week of the race. But, like the malco kid picked last in school PE lessons, he found himself persona non grata as Team Lancestana monitored the situation closely.

After some strong words with Big Thor Hushovd - suggestions what was said below, please - a dejected Evans slipped back into the peloton like a neutered dog returning from the vet.

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/11072009/58/tour-de-france-blazin-saddles-evans-hell.html

 

[Cobblestones]

You make many valid points there but the other GC challengers need to ride with more agression like Cadel has been because they aren't going to win by sitting back and doing jack shyte to beat Astana.

Here we fully agree. Schleck had only one attempt so far (and if he succeeded, did he really think he could've TT'ed to St. Girons? Maybe Astana should've called his bluff and let him dangle 30" in front of the peloton for a while? I haven't seen any attack from Sastre yet. Is he betting the farm on Mt Ventoux? Finally, I give Menchov a pass, since he's so far back already.

 

[frizzlefry]

did you miss the attack Evans put in today? wtf.
did you tune in and watch just the last 10 minutes, then come up with your insightful analysis? or are you just completely clueless?

Did you read my post. I said "serious attack". When has Cadel ever put in a serious attack??? Just so you know a serious attack is what AC did the other day. No one could even come close to matching that attack. LA was probably the only that might be able to, but he stayed on the wheel as he should have.
I want to see Evans do what AC did the other day, its just that he doesnt have it in him. Yea you can say he's not a pure climber and I say then he needs to become LA's towel boy.

 

[The Colnago Kid]

Did you read my post. I said "serious attack". When has Cadel ever put in a serious attack??? Just so you know a serious attack is what AC did the other day. No one could even come close to matching that attack. LA was probably the only that might be able to, but he stayed on the wheel as he should have.
I want to see Evans do what AC did the other day, its just that he doesnt have it in him.

And who was the cyclist that softened up the leading contenders by launching the 1st attack? Evans. And who chased that attack down? Caisse d'Epargne - Contador's real domestiques. Who launched the second attack? Evans' team mate. Contador doesn't take those 21 seconds without the attacks launched by Silence-Lotto.

Yea you can say he's not a pure climber and I say then he needs to become LA's towel boy.

There's plenty of threads where they're probably happy for you to dip your finger in your own excrement and write your name on the wall. This isn't one of them.

 

[auscyclefan94]

And who was the cyclist that softened up the leading contenders by launching the 1st attack? Evans. And who chased that attack down? Caisse d'Epargne - Contador's real domestiques. Who launched the second attack? Evans' team mate. Contador doesn't take those 21 seconds without the attacks launched by Silence-Lotto.

Jurgen van den Broek went up the road because he was trying to set up a launching pad for evans but contador launched 20 seconds after van den broeck attacked so cadel couldn't use him to launch himself up the road.

 

[frizzlefry]

Contador doesn't take those 21 seconds without the attacks launched by Silence.

In case you havent noticed, AC can take 21 seconds whenever he feels like it. He doesnt need anyones help.

 

[msjett]

Oops. Had a long day and, maybe, one or two too many amber nectars!!!

Thats ok, sometimes sarcasm just doesn't translate in black and white.

 

[unsheath]

The initial move by Evans really needed another couple of GC contenders to go with him. Andy was in the initial break and should have persisted on. Efimkin would have been a natural ally, having finished top 10 last year but unfortunately was under instructions to protect the maillot jaune. A bridging Cancellara to Andy/Cadel/Vladamir plus the other 5 looking for a stage win could have had a chance to gain some time. But that's not the way it played out.

As for Cancellara and Thor's antics, it's understandable but one has to consider that Cadel instigated the move and the latter two bridged on the downhill, so Cadel had every right to be there. These two are dominate riders and seniors of the peloton so they are always going to bully others to have their own way. Interesting to note whether this would have coerced a similar reaction if it was indeed Armstrong who was 3 min down and looking to chase time. I highly doubt they would have told him to f*ck off.

 

[bikeGURU]

The problem with all the teams ganging up together to attack Astana is that they would start fighting each other sooner than Astana would be worn out. If Evans had gone up the road and got 2-3min on the pack, why would Saxo/Garmin/Cervelo allowed that to happen?? Would they be happy to sit back and wait for Astana to chase or would they eventually see their chances fading and pick up the chase themselves. I think they would have started chasing because their hopes of overall GC placing would fade very quickly.

I think they need to work together on the climbs to constantly attack the lead riders but even that is a hard thing to do. If Evans attacks and the group bridges up and Andy attacks then Evans struggles to keep the pace, etc, etc. After a few of those the group is very limited and it ends up being the best climbers going head to head. In the end it comes down to who can get to the top the fastest and at that point it isn't about the team it is about who has the legs to keep the pace. If the other teams want to gang up and really push the pace on the stages they still have to ride that pace as well and get just as worked over as the Astana leaders. I think the only way to attack Astana is with disposible riders that can hammer the pace and fall off, too bad that Astana has scooped up most of those riders. The 12 riders at the top of Arcalis included 2 Saxo, 2 Garmin, 3 Astana and a couple singles. Astana had another 3 riders that are proven climbers that they can use to attack or set pace on the lower slopes.

Back to the original topic I think Cancellara and the others did exactly what would be expected. They all had riders on their teams higher placed than Cadel and wouldn't do any work to help him gain time on their teammates. They also know that the Astana group would chase down Cadel if he was still in the break and would mean they had no chance of staying away for 100km+. Just a bunch of whinning because Cadel made a silly attempt to gain time and it didn't work. I can just imagine the discussion in the Saxo bus if Cance had hammered in the breakaway to gain 2min on the peleton and gave Cadel a gap on Schleck. That would have been a brilliant move to give one of the top GC guys a big gap especially when he is one of the top TT riders in the tour this year.

 

[Bagster]

The initial move by Evans really needed another couple of GC contenders to go with him. Andy was in the initial break and should have persisted on. Efimkin would have been a natural ally, having finished top 10 last year but unfortunately was under instructions to protect the maillot jaune. A bridging Cancellara to Andy/Cadel/Vladamir plus the other 5 looking for a stage win could have had a chance to gain some time. But that's not the way it played out.

As for Cancellara and Thor's antics, it's understandable but one has to consider that Cadel instigated the move and the latter two bridged on the downhill, so Cadel had every right to be there. These two are dominate riders and seniors of the peloton so they are always going to bully others to have their own way. Interesting to note whether this would have coerced a similar reaction if it was indeed Armstrong who was 3 min down and looking to chase time. I highly doubt they would have told him to f*ck off.

Agreed, they went across knowing Cadel was in the break so had no right to whine about the break being caught with him in it. If they were worried about using energy in a break destined for failure, which it was, then they should have just stayed in the peleton.
As to Armstrong, his reply would have been equally as blunt no doubt.

 

[issoisso]

Just noticed this topic.

How's this for ego: According to Kim Andersen, on friday's stage it turns out Cancellara didn't have a second puncture....he got dropped because he refused to go on until they gave him a yellow wheel. He wouldn't ride without a fully yellow-styled bike, being the yellow jersey.

Wow.

 

[subzro]

As to Armstrong, his reply would have been equally as blunt no doubt.

I agree with what you and unsheath said as well. And you are right about what Armstrong, or even a Basso, or an Ullrich would have said to that BFF. Evans just isn't mentally strong enough, or too polite.

 

[lone_cowboy]

Evans should be rightly p%^$#$ off. Everyone is getting bullied about by Astana and cadel makes a lead which everyone full knew was happening. Then wants to lose him? There are a few people in this race that need to start acting there age. Cadel was right when he said that they acted like 3 year old children having a tantrum.

 

[The Falcon]

yep, all this Spartacus crap has gone to his head, Canc is a certified tosser.....however tactically, i can understand his position, and also why Evans is ****ed off......Astana have this stitched up, and in my opinion its great for Old Tex and the Hog, but terrible for cycling...lets get this Livestrong thing out of the way and bring the TdF back to the fans. Roll on 2011.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I loved Evans reaction after the race

"These guys complaining like 3 year olds. Go away, they are going to chase us. Well if I'm in the break, I stay there" (telling them to f.... off basically)

 

[davidg]

Just noticed this topic.

How's this for ego: According to Kim Andersen, on friday's stage it turns out Cancellara didn't have a second puncture....he got dropped because he refused to go on until they gave him a yellow wheel. He wouldn't ride without a fully yellow-styled bike, being the yellow jersey.

Wow.

Seems reasonable to me - odd wheels look shjt.

 

[msjett]

I loved Evans reaction after the race

"These guys complaining like 3 year olds. Go away, they are going to chase us. Well if I'm in the break, I stay there" (telling them to f.... off basically)

I also like the bit he sort of mumbles "they can go back to the peleton if they want".