Cancellara

[enCYCLOpedia]

I have more to do tomorrow than just seeing news about this Clasicomano Luigi. There are so many names. It's [similar] with Alberto, they say 'ah, AC is Alberto Contador'

Why are you all complaining? He said his situation is similar to the Alberto Contador = AC link. I count that as an admission.

More seriously, the way Operation Puerto has been conducted has been a farce. Jan Ullrich's career along with several others were effectively ended after their names were linked to Fuentes shortly before the 2006 TdF. Now, almost seven years later, there are still athletes (cyclists and otherwise) who have been linked to Fuentes, but who have never been sanctioned, and whose names haven't even been published in most cases.

I understand that doping was not a criminal offence in Spain at the time. But sporting authorities who sign contracts with athletes, should stipulate that anyone who wishes to compete, and who has been active before 2006, must agree to have a DNA sample matched against the Fuentes blood bank. It's a very cheap, specific and effective test that's used all over the world. Reduced sanctions could apply to anyone who comes forward voluntarily.

In Ullrich's case, German prosecutors later confirmed the link, using DNA tests. I don't know why this cannot be done by prosecutors in other countries, or by the sporting bodies themselves (saving taxpayer money): http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/apr07/apr04news

This won't fix the doping problem in sport, but at least for this one particular case, it would go some way towards equal punishments for equal crimes. And, of course, it would allow Fabian or Alberto to prove their innocence.

 

[noddy69]

Why are you all complaining? He said his situation is similar to the Alberto Contador = AC link. I count that as an admission.


.

In Ullrich's case, German prosecutors later confirmed the link, using DNA tests. I don't know why this cannot be done by prosecutors in other countries, or by the sporting bodies themselves (saving taxpayer money): http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/apr07/apr04news

This won't fix the doping problem in sport, but at least for this one particular case, it would go some way towards equal punishments for equal crimes. And, of course, it would allow Fabian or Alberto to prove their innocence.

But they are not innocent. Not one winner who won a ITT ,a mountain stage a classic a sprint or rode away in a breakaway to win a stage was clean,not one. How could they be when the top riders were taking drugs,not possible.
Time to move on alright but without the cheats

 

[Pentacycle]

He trashed everyone at the Olympics in 2008 on a course he should never have been able to compete on, RR or TT. And Cera testing was already in full swing - that's where they got Rebellin and they'd already got Ricco & Piepoli at the Tour. Had they got Sella by then? Seem to remember it was a OOC in July/August.

It's all very clear. Outside of 2008 Canc finished 65th in the Tour, while he normally finished around 100th. He, Larsson, Kolobnev, Schlecks are all very suspicious around that period. Larsson is a joke now compared to the second-best TT-specialist he once was, Cancellara hasn't been himself too lately. Kolobnev hasn't done anything special result-wise and the Schlecks have become a joke as well.

Besides can't we just conclude S. Sanchez was on the dope too? How on earth could he even have been in that group if he wasn't illegally aided? Rebellin/Rogers aren't exactly clean as well ofc.

 

[Cycle Chic]

But they are not innocent. Not one winner who won a ITT ,a mountain stage a classic a sprint or rode away in a breakaway to win a stage was clean,not one. How could they be when the top riders were taking drugs,not possible...

Exactly. If anyone thought Cancellara was clean they,ve got 'rocks in their head'.

The Clinic should have a thread 'Who is Clean' ? not one winner thats for sure. As Mrs Murphy keeps stating 'they all look like they,re on motorbikes'. Give us a heads up when we see a rider out of breath.

 

[enrecul]

What about London 2012......he was on for the win pre crash........doped too?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Strange that Canc had to go to Spain for his BBs. I would've thought he was a Ferarri client being a Swiss rider.

Still not surprised. those wins where he rode away were truly doped.

He's a CSC/Saxo rider - a Riis boy - so he goes where Hamilton, Basso, F.Schleck, Lombardi went.

I'm waiting for Riis to tell us how 'shocked' he is that another of his riders was caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

On the subject of 2008 and the Olympics, does anyone remember a move that Luigi made towards the end of the race. I think he just powered away from a group on the flat to catch up with the leaders.

 

[GJB123]

He's a CSC/Saxo rider - a Riis boy - so he goes where Hamilton, Basso, F.Schleck, Lombardi went.

I'm waiting for Riis to tell us how 'shocked' he is that another of his riders was caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

On the subject of 2008 and the Olympics, does anyone remember a move that Luigi made towards the end of the race. I think he just powered away from a group on the flat to catch up with the leaders.

Actually I remember it being on more of (slight) descent, which would figure since he is one of the best descenders in the peloton. But I would love to be corrected.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I just have a memory of him making a move and thinking 'wow he looks like he's on a motorbike'. I think it was quite a big gap and he made it up very fast.

I thought it was a flat part of the course. I think he caught the SS group and SS is also considered to be one of the best descenders as well.

However, I maybe wrong.

 

[dolophonic]

yes he did a monster pull and was chased down, possibly by Vino ? was a bold move. possibly "Extra Terrestrial !"

 

[Tom T.]

I just have a memory of him making a move and thinking 'wow he looks like he's on a motorbike'. I think it was quite a big gap and he made it up very fast.

I thought it was a flat part of the course. I think he caught the SS group and SS is also considered to be one of the best descenders as well.

However, I maybe wrong.

I don't remember that descent being very technical, though. I seem to remember it being very wide, with only a slight downgrade. There must be a Youtube video of it. I do remember him just powering away from that group and catching the leaders very quickly.

 

[Alpechraxler]

http://www.olympic.org/cycling-road-individual-road-race-men

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYeKqvXVMM

Once again i have to insist he can't have used CERA because they caught rebellin and pfannberger with it in this race and they always test the medalists.

 

[Alpechraxler]

What about London 2012......he was on for the win pre crash........doped too?

The swiss team actually raced really well or had a really good tactic compared to GB

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

So you provide us with two links neither of which have anything to do with the attack we were talking about.

As for your 'others tested positive so my boy must be clean' argument.

I have something for you.

 

[will10]

Olympics 2008: Final 10km, Schleck, Rebellin and Sanchez were clear and looked pretty much nailed on to contest the medals. Rogers and Kolobnev were chasing at 20-30s but were not closing the gap, then there was a small peloton another 20-30s behind them. Cancellara attacked from this group, solo, and was across to Rogers and Kolobnev in a flash. Then they could hardly hold his wheel as he cruised up towards the leaders. I think Kolobnev and Rogers may have given him a turn or two just before they made the junction. It was a serious display of power from Fabian and if they'd only caught the leaders a km or two earlier he might've even won the fricking sprint.

 

[will10]

http://www.olympic.org/cycling-road-individual-road-race-men

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYeKqvXVMM

Once again i have to insist he can't have used CERA because they caught rebellin and pfannberger with it in this race and they always test the medalists.

You really think Rebellin and Pfannberger were the only guys doping in that race?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Once again i have to insist he can't have used CERA because they caught rebellin and pfannberger with it in this race and they always test the medalists.

You must be new here. If the athlete correctly times the EPO/CERA administration along with, I believe, the dosage then there is no positive.

If we're talking about the Olympics, the half-smart dopers were already enjoying the CERA benefits having timed administration and possibly even checked their own levels. Moreover, they understood the benefits aren't fabulous compared to the risks of taking it within their Olympics event window.

The dumb ones are the only athletes getting caught.

Today's lesson: Don't hit the CERA too hard.

 

[Ferminal]

Of course Rebellin was super dumb because Ricco had already tested positive, Sella got busted just a few days before the RR. I'm glad Cancellara isn't that stupid/arrogant.

Pretty sure CERA has a longer detection window though, which is why since it's been testable they've moved to other forms of EPO.

 

[Frosty]

Of course Rebellin was super dumb because Ricco had already tested positive, Sella got busted just a few days before the RR. I'm glad Cancellara isn't that stupid/arrogant.

Pretty sure CERA has a longer detection window though, which is why since it's been testable they've moved to other forms of EPO.

Some taking CERA didnt test positive though - Schumacher and Kohl's TDF samples only tested positive when the better test was produced in September (?), ie after the Olympics. In fact Schumacher tested positive at the Olympics too so it wasn't Rebellin on his own.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Pretty sure CERA has a longer detection window though, which is why since it's been testable they've moved to other forms of EPO.

Correct. my rudimentary understanding is it works hours and hours longer. Imagine only having to stick someone once a day vs. several times a day. This was the medical market reason for developing it. From a PED perspective, once the test was implemented, the long half-life makes it a bad PED.

I've probably abused a number of things turning my rudimentary understanding into plain english, so don't take it as gospel.

 

[SundayRider]

Is anybody actually surprised by Cancellara Fuentes links? I mean the teams he has rode for, the riders and managers he has ridden with/for and that's before you take into account his performances...

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

We should really start a youtube collection of Luigi's most obviously doped rides.

The only thing that is a surprise is that i) it has taken so long for him to be outed and ii) that there are still people who believe in him.

 

[sugarman]

Correct. my rudimentary understanding is it works hours and hours longer. Imagine only having to stick someone once a day vs. several times a day. This was the medical market reason for developing it. From a PED perspective, once the test was implemented, the long half-life makes it a bad PED.

I've probably abused a number of things turning my rudimentary understanding into plain english, so don't take it as gospel.

Yep, near enough to spot on.

CERA has a half-life of >100 hours, compared to around 12 hours for Epoetin (Alfa). It takes roughly 5 half-lives for a drug to be completely eliminated from the body. I'm not sure of the specifics of the CERA test regarding the concentration required to trigger a positive, but the stuff is going to be in the body for a long time.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

2008 was quite the season for Luigi

1st Olympic Time Trial Champion
1st National Time Trial Championships
1st Overall Tirreno–Adriatico

1st Stage 5

1st Milan – San Remo
1st Monte Paschi Eroica
Tour de Suisse

1st Stages 7 & 9
1st Points classification

1st Prologue Tour of California
1st Prologue Tour of Luxembourg
1st Stage 20 (ITT) Tour de France
2nd Olympic Road Race
2nd Paris-Roubaix

 

[Mr.38%]

Mrs John Murphy, with all respect, I consider prologues and ITTs doable for a talented rider in a micro-dosed environment. The other results are obvious, though. The Bejing road race pursuit was a joke.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Mrs John Murphy, with all respect, I consider prologues and ITTs doable for a talented rider in a micro-dosed environment. The other results are obvious, though. The Bejing road race pursuit was a joke.

I am not disputing that - I simply put up all his results. If you leave out results the fanboys accuse you of being selective with your evidence.

2008 is interesting especially when you compare to his 2007 results which were:

2007
1st World Time Trial Championships
1st National Time Trial Championships
Tour de France

1st Prologue & Stage 3

Tour de Suisse

1st Prologue & Stage 9 (ITT)

2nd E3 Harelbeke