Cancellara's Dangerous neutralisation...

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hincapie and ASchleck crash twice in 200 meters (among others)? Every or nearly every contender on the floor in the same kilometer at least once... People are questioning the riders neutralizing? Okay...
 
May 5, 2010
73
1
0
Oldman said:
There have been versions of this in many Tours and we'll have something new to talk about tomorrow. By the way; has it escaped everyone's attention that he gave up the YELLOW JERSEY to be a good team player to the Schleck's? Name any other rider of Cancellara's stature that has done that.

Gave up, he had no shot.
 
Aug 8, 2009
142
0
0
The TDF is supposed to be a competition, not a love-fest.

I think the ASO should send Cancellara packing. It was cheating conveniently disguised as rider/sponsor politics.

Nobody in the ASO made it rain, and nobody in the ASO said the riders couldn't slow down when things get hairy. Not everbody went down.

And does anybody think for a minute that Cancellara would have pulled this crap if the Schlecks were in the yellow jersey group and Contador was a few minutes back?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
sashimono said:
The TDF is supposed to be a competition, not a love-fest.

I think the ASO should send Cancellara packing. It was cheating conveniently disguised as rider/sponsor politics.

Nobody in the ASO made it rain, and nobody in the ASO said the riders couldn't slow down when things get hairy. Not everbody went down.

And does anybody think for a minute that Cancellara would have pulled this crap if the Schlecks were in the yellow jersey group and Contador was a few minutes back?

Yes. It's so disappointing when a gladiator kills the tiger.

Why not coat the Stockeu with axle grease and take the brakes off the bikes? That would be an awesome spectacle.

When the motos are crashing on a descent something is very wrong. It's not just rain.
 
Oct 27, 2009
133
0
0
will Cancellara do the same had the Schleck Bros did not crash?Even in yellow,its certain that he couldnt not attacked because his leaders had crashed and he could just not leave them.Now,will he do same thing had his teamates stayed on his wheels ?
 
Dec 30, 2009
138
0
0
Scott SoCal said:
Yes. It's so disappointing when a gladiator kills the tiger.

Why not coat the Stockeu with axle grease and take the brakes off the bikes? That would be an awesome spectacle.

When the motos are crashing on a descent something is very wrong. It's not just rain.


It's no use. The armchair hardmen of CN know whats best. because they were there on the scene.
 

SpartacusRox

BANNED
May 6, 2010
711
0
0
sashimono said:
The TDF is supposed to be a competition, not a love-fest.

I think the ASO should send Cancellara packing. It was cheating conveniently disguised as rider/sponsor politics.

Nobody in the ASO made it rain, and nobody in the ASO said the riders couldn't slow down when things get hairy. Not everbody went down.

And does anybody think for a minute that Cancellara would have pulled this crap if the Schlecks were in the yellow jersey group and Contador was a few minutes back?

My God these posts just get dumber and dumber.

How was it cheating when all the other teams except Cervelo tacitly agreed with the move to slow the race and let ALL the main GC guys back on.

As for Contador, I suggest you read his comments where he applauded Cancellara and ordered his team to stop racing while the schlecks got back on.

Yep giving away your yellow jersey is a really selfish action on his part:rolleyes:
 
Jun 1, 2009
10
0
0
You’re missing the point, SpartacusRocks. It’s not cheating, it’s just pointless. Ordering a go-slow on a descent to allow GC contenders to catch up is one thing, and sporting. Ordering the neutralization of a sprint at the end (on completely flat road) is in service of...what? The maillot jaune is not the only jersey on offer, and to be blunt, Cancellara is no GC contender. Sure, other teams had the right to do their own thing, but what’s the point of Cancellara gesticulating and berating other riders on the finish line for sprinting for points that had no effect on the GC whatsoever? That’s where FC is selfish – thinking he had the authority and right to prevent sprinters from doing their job and sprinting for points.
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
bikebike said:
You’re missing the point, SpartacusRocks. It’s not cheating, it’s just pointless. Ordering a go-slow on a descent to allow GC contenders to catch up is one thing, and sporting. Ordering the neutralization of a sprint at the end (on completely flat road) is in service of...what? The maillot jaune is not the only jersey on offer, and to be blunt, Cancellara is no GC contender. Sure, other teams had the right to do their own thing, but what’s the point of Cancellara gesticulating and berating other riders on the finish line for sprinting for points that had no effect on the GC whatsoever? That’s where FC is selfish – thinking he had the authority and right to prevent sprinters from doing their job and sprinting for points.
Those are fair points, but the fact is that a lot of the people complaining about this, including the guy SpartacusRocks is replying to are complaining about waiting for the GC contenders. Apparently motorcycle oil is now considered a part of cycling which the riders should just learn to deal with.
 
bikebike said:
That’s where FC is selfish – thinking he had the authority and right to prevent sprinters from doing their job and sprinting for points.

It must have been more than a matter of him "thinking" he had the right or authority, as it would appear that the vast majority of the peloton agreed with his actions (including one typically out-spoken "patron").

There are two kinds of authority: that which is taken and that which is given. Which did Cancellara have? Did he "take" his authority and if so, then by what means? Or, was that "authority" given to him by the majority of the teams and riders through their willful participation in the neutralization?
 
Mar 20, 2009
406
0
0
Oldman said:
Not only did they not wait; they took the opportunity to attack and diminish the GC contendors. "They" included "that certain mr. lance armstrong". This time there was enough support from enough teams that couldn't account for critical teammates that the riders pushed the Reset button. Like it or not a single rider did not alter the stage. Fabian as the rider giving up his Yellow Jersey was the logical mouthpiece and, yes, it served his team. He had another choice and that would be to go on the offensive and increase his GC lead. He appeared to be at the front of the small group that had escaped the crash and could easily have caught Chavenel. He'd have fewer friends in the peloton.
didnt realize they were all having a social night out together after the stage. soz.
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Cerberus said:
Those are fair points, but the fact is that a lot of the people complaining about this, including the guy SpartacusRocks is replying to are complaining about waiting for the GC contenders. Apparently motorcycle oil is now considered a part of cycling which the riders should just learn to deal with.

And motorcycles, period. Anyone who's had a descending line on a narrow road cut off by another thoughtless competitor has usually said something if they survived the experience. Try that with the number of media, VIP and Official vehicles ASO is cramming onto 8' wide pavement.
These guys train for years to be here and they are Professional bike racers. When they crash because a promoter's employee gets it wrong they might not make it to work the next day. They know, we don't because we only can wish we were there.
 
Jun 1, 2009
10
0
0
Cerberus said:
Those are fair points, but the fact is that a lot of the people complaining about this, including the guy SpartacusRocks is replying to are complaining about waiting for the GC contenders. Apparently motorcycle oil is now considered a part of cycling which the riders should just learn to deal with.

I agree with waiting for GC contenders, although I didn't consider Andy Schleck a contender anymore after his prologue. But on the other issue, why shouldn't riders learn to deal with a bit of oil on the road? When you're travelling on 3000km+ of public roads, what are tour organisers to do - get out there with mop and broom on every inch of road to make it perfectly pristine before each stage? Demand that every inch of road is resurfaced before July each year? What's to stop wildlife from darting out of the woods and getting smeared all over the road? Or a branch falling onto a rider? For such an extremely unforseeable event like a bit of oil on the road from a moto crash only moments beforehand, eliminating all non-desirable elements is unrealistic.
 
Jun 1, 2009
10
0
0
MacRoadie said:
It must have been more than a matter of him "thinking" he had the right or authority, as it would appear that the vast majority of the peloton agreed with his actions (including one typically out-spoken "patron").

There are two kinds of authority: that which is taken and that which is given. Which did Cancellara have? Did he "take" his authority and if so, then by what means? Or, was that "authority" given to him by the majority of the teams and riders through their willful participation in the neutralization?


I would have thought dropping back to the commissaire's vehicle and inserting your person into the back window was a fairly assertive method of 'taking' authority... still, I agree with you - the peloton acquiesced in the final moments by refusing to sprint. That was equally disappointing.
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
bikebike said:
I agree with waiting for GC contenders, although I didn't consider Andy Schleck a contender anymore after his prologue. But on the other issue, why shouldn't riders learn to deal with a bit of oil on the road? When you're travelling on 3000km+ of public roads, what are tour organisers to do - get out there with mop and broom on every inch of road to make it perfectly pristine before each stage? Demand that every inch of road is resurfaced before July each year? What's to stop wildlife from darting out of the woods and getting smeared all over the road? Or a branch falling onto a rider? For such an extremely unforseeable event like a bit of oil on the road from a moto crash only moments beforehand, eliminating all non-desirable elements is unrealistic.

Except that right before you race over the road they run a caravan of promotional floats, motorcycles and crap that you'd never expect to follow. Throw in some surprise traffic islands and 3" gaps in the pavement on a rainy day to test your riding skills...every day for 6+ hours over 3 weeks. You'd get touchy over sudden, oil-slicked roads courtesy of your lead escort.
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
bikebike said:
I agree with waiting for GC contenders, although I didn't consider Andy Schleck a contender anymore after his prologue.
He's still the bookmakers favourite for second, though only by a slim margin.
bikebike said:
But on the other issue, why shouldn't riders learn to deal with a bit of oil on the road?
Because it's impossible to learn to deal with it. Part of the skill of descending is knowing how fast you can go on a given surface in a given turn. When there's oil on the road you can't go nearly as fast, and there is no way whatsoever for the riders to take that into account.

ETA: My point is normal people like me can afford to take it easy to accommodate the possibility of poor road conditions or idiot pedestrians when cycling to work. Professional riders don't have that option. They have to ride were near the edge in order to win so there's very little safety margin and oil takes what little margin there is away.
bikebike said:
When you're travelling on 3000km+ of public roads, what are tour organisers to do - get out there with mop and broom on every inch of road to make it perfectly pristine before each stage? Demand that every inch of road is resurfaced before July each year? What's to stop wildlife from darting out of the woods and getting smeared all over the road? Or a branch falling onto a rider? For such an extremely unforseeable event like a bit of oil on the road from a moto crash only moments beforehand, eliminating all non-desirable elements is unrealistic.
I'm pretty sure that the organizers do in fact check the roads beforehand though obviously a motorcycle crash 30-45 seconds before the peleton gets there can't be avoided. Basically I agree the sprint shouldn't have been neutralized, but If the riders didn't have a complete picture I can understand the protest.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
as the OP, my tongue was firmly in my cheek about Cancellara's danger of neutralisation:D

and as it was also meant as a tongue in cheek post in the vein to the stupid 'Cav is dangerous' thread, lots took it too seriously.....;)

i too find it a bit pathetic that the peleton only has an on and off switch and do not know when to race at a slower pace when it is apparent that the road deserves some more respect. But it makes great TV.:D

Ps has anyone got proof that a motorbike crashed on that downhill? i have not seen or read it anywhere so a link would be good.

Ok! as you were.
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
Benotti69 said:
as the OP, my tongue was firmly in my cheek about Cancellara's danger of neutralisation:D

and as it was also meant as a tongue in cheek post in the vein to the stupid 'Cav is dangerous' thread, lots took it too seriously.....;)

i too find it a bit pathetic that the peleton only has an on and off switch and do not know when to race at a slower pace when it is apparent that the road deserves some more respect. But it makes great TV.:D

Ps has anyone got proof that a motorbike crashed on that downhill? i have not seen or read it anywhere so a link would be good.

Ok! as you were.
Velonews reported on it, but I can't find the link right now, it's been posted in at least one of the other threads though, but I'm to lazy to sift through them for it.

ETA: Not the article I was referring to, but they mention it here, though there were a few more details in the other one:
"Spilled oil from a motorbike that crashed ahead of the peloton is being blamed for the high number of accidents with seven-time winner Lance Armstrong, reigning champion Alberto Contador and last year’s runner-up Andy Schleck all escaping unhurt despite hitting the tarmac."
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/07/news/126109_126109
 
Apr 21, 2010
83
0
0
Thought this was interesting from Sastre:

"We took the initiative to start racing again as Thor Hushovd, Jérémy Hunt and I were in the leading group but no-one was helping us. Then Fabian Cancellara told Thor that the race had been neutralised and we weren’t receiving any information on the radio. The race was stopped and then all the people who had taken a fall came back into the main group."

How did Cancellara know when others didn't?
Did he lie to stop them riding?
Was he hoping it would be?

Hopefully today lives up to my anticipation :)
 
Jul 6, 2010
17
0
0
For Those Who Just Don't Get It

I posted this link (http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/23/sports/ ) in the 'let's call the whole thing off' thread and thought I should put it here as well for this group of 'I really don't know crap about professional road cycling but I'm going to pretend that I do'.

For those of you who couldn't be bothered to actually understand what was going on and won't read the link, the basic summary is that pro-cycling has a 'code of honor', kind of a set of 'unwritten rules'. There are many examples of the Peloton slowing down to wait for a top rider and that taking advantage of a top contender who has a flat, has fallen, or even taken a 'nature break' is considered bad form and that's putting it mildly. There aren't hard and fast rules, the circumstances usually dictate what's done. That's why the Peloton as a whole went along with the slow down; it wasn't just the Schlecks who were down, it was almost every top GC contender in the Tour. These men are professionals and competitors, they want to race against the best.

How interesting would this year's Tour be if you have the Schlecks, Contador, Armstrong, Evans, Basso, VV, etc. all so far out of contention by day 3 that there's no reason to actually race? How exciting will the sprints be without the top sprinters? Almost all of them hit the ground as well, as did their lead out men, some have pretty severe injuries and I'd be surprised if they can stay with the Tour more than a couple of days more. Even with Cancellara's group slow down right after the crash it still took something like 10+ minutes for even Contador and Armstrong to catch back on. The Schlecks had Voigt pulling them up to the reforming Peloton as hard as he could and they still took about 15 minutes.

Only people who really don't know crap about pro-cycling would bad mouth Cancellara or any of the other riders for what they chose to do.
 
Apr 26, 2010
9
0
0
bikebike said:
You’re missing the point, SpartacusRocks. It’s not cheating, it’s just pointless. Ordering a go-slow on a descent to allow GC contenders to catch up is one thing, and sporting. Ordering the neutralization of a sprint at the end (on completely flat road) is in service of...what? The maillot jaune is not the only jersey on offer, and to be blunt, Cancellara is no GC contender. Sure, other teams had the right to do their own thing, but what’s the point of Cancellara gesticulating and berating other riders on the finish line for sprinting for points that had no effect on the GC whatsoever? That’s where FC is selfish – thinking he had the authority and right to prevent sprinters from doing their job and sprinting for points.

totally agree, no points for the sprinters is stupid
pull your head in FC!
 
irritated_cycling_fan said:
I posted this link (http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/23/sports/ ) in the 'let's call the whole thing off' thread and thought I should put it here as well for this group of 'I really don't know crap about professional road cycling but I'm going to pretend that I do'.

For those of you who couldn't be bothered to actually understand what was going on and won't read the link, the basic summary is that pro-cycling has a 'code of honor', kind of a set of 'unwritten rules'. There are many examples of the Peloton slowing down to wait for a top rider and that taking advantage of a top contender who has a flat, has fallen, or even taken a 'nature break' is considered bad form and that's putting it mildly. There aren't hard and fast rules, the circumstances usually dictate what's done. That's why the Peloton as a whole went along with the slow down; it wasn't just the Schlecks who were down, it was almost every top GC contender in the Tour. These men are professionals and competitors, they want to race against the best.

How interesting would this year's Tour be if you have the Schlecks, Contador, Armstrong, Evans, Basso, VV, etc. all so far out of contention by day 3 that there's no reason to actually race? How exciting will the sprints be without the top sprinters? Almost all of them hit the ground as well, as did their lead out men, some have pretty severe injuries and I'd be surprised if they can stay with the Tour more than a couple of days more. Even with Cancellara's group slow down right after the crash it still took something like 10+ minutes for even Contador and Armstrong to catch back on. The Schlecks had Voigt pulling them up to the reforming Peloton as hard as he could and they still took about 15 minutes.

Only people who really don't know crap about pro-cycling would bad mouth Cancellara or any of the other riders for what they chose to do.

Blah blah blah everyone else doesn't know crap blah. Pull your head in. :rolleyes:

I think most people agree waiting for it to all come back together was the right thing to do. However, once it was all back together it was no longer necessary to neutralize it. The sprinters could and should have been allowed to do their thing.
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
Roland Rat said:
Blah blah blah everyone else doesn't know crap blah. Pull your head in. :rolleyes:

I think most people agree waiting for it to all come back together was the right thing to do. However, once it was all back together it was no longer necessary to neutralize it. The sprinters could and should have been allowed to do their thing.

Have you been reading the threads about this? :rolleyes:
Yes some people have argued only that the sprint should have been contested (which I agree on), but lot's of people have argued loudly that the people who got through should just have gone on like nothing happened.