Carlos Betancur discussion thread

Page 67 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Feb 6, 2016
1,213
0
0
Re: Re:

gospina said:
carton said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Joke starting to get old... He's fat, we get it.
There are 89 pages on here about a guy whose biggest results are a Paris-Nice win and a Giro 6th place. For comparison the threads for Thibaut Pinot and Ilnur Zakarin run for 19 pages and 9 pages, respectively. Fat jokes account for about 95% of the Pythagorean difference.

Carlos Betancur is the fat cyclist. For some he's the modern epicurean antagonist of the hackneyed romantic concept of cyclists as hard men aesthetes who stopped at nothing in their relentless pursuit glory, prisoners of the road but masters of their own fate. In that view he has all the exogenous talent but lacks any of the endogenous will. Some of these folk believe they could be better racers than Betancur, but lacked the god-given talent: Betancur is thus the human embodiment of the tragedy that is life.

For others Betancur symbolizes the return of the hackneyed romantic concept of cyclists as literal larger than life bon vivants, moody characters who ate full meals washed down with beer and wine between Tour de France stages; who stopped for coffee amidst Milan-San Remo. His image harkens back to those sepia tinted days where passion and flair were more important than watts/kg. Many of them believe they cycle just like Betancur, but lack the god-given talent: Betancur is thus the human embodiment of the comedy that is life.

In any case given that the fat jokes have only gotten better three years in, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Brilliant comment. You are absolutely right about the comedy that is life. It reminds me of this guy I used to play soccer with. He came into our HS team far into the season and was overweight. He sometimes didn't try in practice. Coach will get on him all the time. The thing was, he was amazing. He scored a hat trick in one game, had an amazing pass from midfield in another, did a dribbling exhibition pretty much all the time...he was faster than all of us..but he was lazy/had a different mindset on the team. One game, he literally dribbled through the whole team, was one on one vs the goalie...and then stopped right in the middle of his attack to TIE HIS SHOE!. He was Carlitos. He got kicked out of the team that day..no more school games for him...he destroyed us in indoor/spring club league once he joined another team....fkng Carlitos is just like La Ronca. Love to watch him as a fan but, man, it must be frustrating to be his teammate/manager LOL
When I first skimmed your post, I only read the middle, and I thought initially you were writing about Romario. Thinking about this reminded me of the number 9 Ronaldo, and of Ronaldinho, and Kaka, who Tonton mentioned earlier, and thus to a point I suggest should be added to carton's remarkably good post. The parallels between Brazillian footballers and Colombian cyclists have been laid out many times; they are both (perceived as, obviously) otherwordly, exotic (but just familiar enough that they're not alienating - the names are Spanish/Portugese, after all), magical at the more ethereal and aesthetic elements of the sport (climbing and playmaker/forward), amusingly incompetent at the more grounded, gritty, physical aspects (TTing/cobbles, defending/goalkeeping - and it's a testament to the power of this myth that twenty years of bulky and dirty defensive midfielders from Dunga to Fernando, including one of the most conservative and defensive World Cup-winning teams of all time, have done very little to shake it), brought up in an environment that breeds talent (the Andes, street football), and innocent. It's those last two points I think are most significant in this context. Firstly, the view of all Colombians as brilliant pocket climbers is the one real counterweight to the prevailing narrative of cycling these days, which is one of suffering; while everyone else is a 'hard man aesthete', as carton so elegantly puts it, the Colombians descend from their exotic peaks with pure natural talent. The response of the forum to an European pro who showed immense talent but didn't keep in shape would be a collective grunt: being professional and working hard is part of being a cyclist these days, and if you can't do that it's inevitable that you'll fade away. But Betancur is granted indulgence; part of the reason for this, I suspect, is that no one follows Colombian domestic cycling, so when their riders come and shine brightly in the European scene it's more explosive and interesting than when an Paris-Roubaix Espoirs or Avenir winner moves on to the next level (I realise Colombians have won and routinely race Avenir). This vision of natural brilliance is significant to both of carton's scenarioes, I suggest, both the wasted brilliance one that attached itself to Ronaldo or the dilettante genius narrative that defined Romario. Secondly, our South Americans traditionally ride/play with innocence, joy, a pure naiveté: witness the stereotype of jogo bonito, or the real life comments of various Cafe de Colombia riders about how they didn't really understand tactics and just perpetually attacked in their first Giro. Betancur defines this innocence, at first with his attacking and now with his fatness.

(DISCLAIMER: the sweeping statements above are not my own views, they are an attempt to capture a predominant narrative.)
 
Mar 31, 2010
18,136
2
0
more importantly he finished in the first group! while more than 3/4 of all riders were dropped from. looking a lot better
 
Re:

Thanks Ospina, Sam, Jaylew, and Cannibal, you are too kind, Hrotha truly so.

I enjoyed and agree with the football parallels, and Ronaldo in particular as another great example of an athlete as a breathing Rorschach test of sorts. He was the fat one, the phenomenon, the wunderkind; the all-time leading World Cup scorer when he retired, yet still spoken about by many pundits with a slight air of wasted talent. Ronaldo went through three seriously career threatening knee injuries, the first of which as a teenager, and a myriad of personal issues, but like Garrincha before him he is remembered mainly as some kind of magical Carioca that floated through life on and off the pitch.
Ryo Hazuki said:
more importantly he finished in the first group! while more than 3/4 of all riders were dropped from. looking a lot better
A good omen for Inzue's rumored tough love approach, perhaps?
 
Re: Re:

carton said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Joke starting to get old... He's fat, we get it.
There are 89 pages on here about a guy whose biggest results are a Paris-Nice win and a Giro 6th place. For comparison the threads for Thibaut Pinot and Ilnur Zakarin run for 19 pages and 9 pages, respectively. Fat jokes account for about 95% of the Pythagorean difference.

Carlos Betancur is the fat cyclist. For some he's the modern epicurean antagonist of the hackneyed romantic concept of cyclists as hard men aesthetes who stopped at nothing in their relentless pursuit glory, prisoners of the road but masters of their own fate. In that view he has all the exogenous talent but lacks any of the endogenous will. Some of these folk believe they could be better racers than Betancur, but lacked the god-given talent: Betancur is thus the human embodiment of the tragedy that is life.

For others Betancur symbolizes the return of the hackneyed romantic concept of cyclists as literal larger than life bon vivants, moody characters who ate full meals washed down with beer and wine between Tour de France stages; who stopped for coffee amidst Milan-San Remo. His image harkens back to those sepia tinted days where passion and flair were more important than watts/kg. Many of them believe they cycle just like Betancur, but lack the god-given talent: Betancur is thus the human embodiment of the comedy that is life.

In any case given that the fat jokes have only gotten better three years in, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Great post

Poor Betencur ...we so want him to be the Maradonna or Best of cycling ..supremely talents and supremely flawed...
We want him to redeem himself and win a Giro but then return to burger joints and pool halls almost immediately. He must be both indifferent to the Gods who gave him talent by achieving greatness but also by throwing it away at the same time

Thus is the narrative we cling to ...for Betencur but for ourselves to make sense of our mediocrity
" I could have been a contender if a gave 2 f**ks and I laugh in the face of all such need to glean glory "

I hope he can contend the Ardenne race though
 
Tomorrow will be the real test to know whether he can be a factor in the Ardennes or not. But the signs are much more promising than last year.

Anyone knows his programme? He's listed for La Flèche Wallone and Liège, but what after these classics?
 
Re:

Popchu said:
Tomorrow will be the real test to know whether he can be a factor in the Ardennes or not. But the signs are much more promising than last year.

Anyone knows his programme? He's listed for La Flèche Wallone and Liège, but what after these classics?
I think regardless of what he does tomorrow, we shouldn't expect anything in the Ardennes. Had have high hopes for him way too much.

I hope Giro.
 
Betancur was 22° today, 21 seconds behind the 'GC group'. We can say his form is decent! Of course it's a mediocre field here, but he's at least competitive. And maybe he did some work for Moreno or Lobato, who knows.
 
Aug 15, 2012
1,065
0
0
Why anyone still expects anything from this guy I have no idea. I wish his potetial could come to fruition, but he lacks the discipline and desire, which is a loss to both he and the sport. Amusing fat jokes aside, he's a train wreck.
 
Re: Re:

liamito said:
Escarabajo said:
No place for Betancur at the Giro.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/movistar-name-11-riders-for-giro-ditalia-squad/

If he gets if some kind of shape he could be ready for La Vuelta.

It looks like the leash is short at Movistar.
Let's see what he can do in Dauphiné or Tour de Suisse? No Nairo or Valverde in those races.
But likely Izaguirre, Intxausti...

To the bolded, are we saying this everytime he fails selection to a race? ''Maybe next time?''. The guy is a lost cause. He's not in shape for the Giro and he won't be in shape for any race until the season ends. How come fans don't understand.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY