Carlton kirby - has to go !!

[Libertine Seguros]

Palmarès? I'm not sure what you mean?

You don't have to be an ex-pro to be a sports commentator. In fact, most of the most successful tandems in sports commentary are made with the combination of a play-by-play man (usually a career commentator) whose job it is to tell you what's going on, and an analyst (usually somebody from the sport) whose job it is to tell you WHY. The only sports that don't need the play-by-play man are slow-moving sports, where the statistic and discussion has plenty of time to develop by itself. Where cycling has the problem is that it has long phases like this, where the gaps in the in-depth knowledge of the play-by-play man can be found out, but often the busy end of the stage is where a play-by-play man is essential, and you'll often notice the analyst says very little, save for identifying the riders when the play-by-play man fails, at this point in the stage.

Harmon and Kirby don't need to submit their palmarès because it's not relevant to what they're being asked to do. And since the analyst role is played by Séan Kelly, I'd like to think that nobody who frequents a cycling forum would question his palmarès.

Kirby is shunted from sport to sport not because he's being kicked off the other sports but because Eurosport is a relatively low-budget operation and he's a cheap utility man who can cover, and is willing to cover, a broad base of sports. Don't Eurosport mostly use him when Harmon is covering another race at the same time? Having to put up with Kirby is actually a sign that Eurosport are committing to cycling because they're putting on two races at the same time, and they're committing to broadcasting and promoting the sport even though perhaps their budget doesn't stretch to having two fully dedicated high-level commentary teams (I'm sure retaining the services of Mr. Kelly eats up a fair bit of that budget too).

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Palmarès? I'm not sure what you mean?

You don't have to be an ex-pro to be a sports commentator. In fact, most of the most successful tandems in sports commentary are made with the combination of a play-by-play man (usually a career commentator) whose job it is to tell you what's going on, and an analyst (usually somebody from the sport) whose job it is to tell you WHY. The only sports that don't need the play-by-play man are slow-moving sports, where the statistic and discussion has plenty of time to develop by itself. Where cycling has the problem is that it has long phases like this, where the gaps in the in-depth knowledge of the play-by-play man can be found out, but often the busy end of the stage is where a play-by-play man is essential, and you'll often notice the analyst says very little, save for identifying the riders when the play-by-play man fails, at this point in the stage.

Harmon and Kirby don't need to submit their palmarès because it's not relevant to what they're being asked to do. And since the analyst role is played by Séan Kelly, I'd like to think that nobody who frequents a cycling forum would question his palmarès.

Kirby is shunted from sport to sport not because he's being kicked off the other sports but because Eurosport is a relatively low-budget operation and he's a cheap utility man who can cover, and is willing to cover, a broad base of sports. Don't Eurosport mostly use him when Harmon is covering another race at the same time? Having to put up with Kirby is actually a sign that Eurosport are committing to cycling because they're putting on two races at the same time, and they're committing to broadcasting and promoting the sport even though perhaps their budget doesn't stretch to having two fully dedicated high-level commentary teams (I'm sure retaining the services of Mr. Kelly eats up a fair bit of that budget too).

Agree with all of that, especially the bit on the busy end of the stage. Harmon is brilliant at calling a sprint. He's made the odd mistake, but generally picks out every rider correctly and has an uncanny knack of picking out the right rider to talk about at the right time (although that's made a lot easier if Cav is riding).

 

[Anonymous]

Of course I would love to know how they went about individually unsubscribing to eurosport as its part of the sports package on each format (satellite, cable and terrestrial)

 

[Cycle Chic]

Another excellent message from Eurosport Forum -

"A few tips for you David Harmon.. 22 minutes ago
a..contact the race organisers before each stage to see if there are any non starters(not difficult).

b...spend a few minutes before the race to find out why the race leader wears red(incredibly easy)

c..do motor racing commentators stop commentating on the race when "there is nothing exciting go on"..of course not.

telling people a..."oh i am unaware unless they tell me" or b... i didn't know but i will now try and find out is borderline pathetic.

c..there is always something cycling related to be said,however quite the action gets.

we all realise that the cycling commentary gets in the way of your ability to promote your own interests and thoughts but as everyone has said across many cycling forums>>>we want cycling commentary,not info about you.

shame on the influential eurosport tv bosses for allowing their "obvious" personal relationship with you to get in the way of telling you to do your job properly. "

 

[Anonymous]

Another excellent message from Eurosport Forum -

"A few tips for you David Harmon.. 22 minutes ago
a..contact the race organisers before each stage to see if there are any non starters(not difficult).

you would be surprised. A fair few race organisers have no idea who hasnt started the stage.

 

[LugHugger]

you would be surprised. A fair few race organisers have no idea who hasnt started the stage.

Really? I thought that this was the whole point of the pre-depart sign on? I'm genuinely surprised if what you are saying is that sign-on's do not happen at all races big enough to be covered on Eurosport

 

[Mambo95]

Really? I thought that this was the whole point of the pre-depart sign on? I'm genuinely surprised if what you are saying is that sign-on's do not happen at all races big enough to be covered on Eurosport

Riders miss the sign in all the time.

 

[LugHugger]

Riders miss the sign in all the time.

oh i guess they get fined chf 50 or something......whoopa

 

[Anonymous]

very often the broadcasters just get what we get. tv pictures and timing screens (although in the case of beijing there were no split times in the tt, no timing screens and what have you)

They have a press meeting after the race, and sometimes before the race, sometimes before each stage, but thats pre sign on. The rest of the info is gleaned by talking to the riders, but the tv commentators are already in their booth studying the road book, doing technical checks etc.

its not like football where they have a nice studio, with journalists down with the team relaying information etc, most of the time they are stuck in a cupboard with a tv screen just showing what we have. Half the commentators information nowadays seems to come from twitter.

 

[The Hitch]

Agree with all of that, especially the bit on the busy end of the stage. Harmon is brilliant at calling a sprint. He's made the odd mistake, but generally picks out every rider correctly and has an uncanny knack of picking out the right rider to talk about at the right time (although that's made a lot easier if Cav is riding).

Kirby is better at calling the sprint.

Harmonn is way better at everything else but Kirby is awesome at doing sprints. Injects a lot of passion into them.

 

[Martin318is]

Riders miss the sign in all the time.

They also sometimes sign on and then just before (or just after) the start line say, "stuff it" and get in a car.

I have been in a number of races (especially crits) where the field was noticeably smaller minutes after the flag was waved. Sometimes the first time you realise you aren't up to it is just after the power goes down and the minor discomfort becomes a major injury...

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

I would like to have Kirby and David Harmon submit their PALMARES and let the cycling viewing public vote if they should be commentating on Professional Cycling - rather than the school sports day.

well that is the end of it all........no palmares....hahahahahaha

boy this thread is a stuck record......and deserves to be closed.

 

[movingtarget]

Kirby is better at calling the sprint.

Harmonn is way better at everything else but Kirby is awesome at doing sprints. Injects a lot of passion into them.

I agree. Kirby would be good on horse races too. It makes a difference especially if you have money on the winner.

 

[Midnightfright]

I agree. Kirby would be good on horse races too. It makes a difference especially if you have money on the winner.

There's nothing worse in a horse race than not calling the right winner. He would have to be very careful about that.

 

[Cycle Chic]

well that is the end of it all........no palmares....hahahahahaha

boy this thread is a stuck record......and deserves to be closed.

How about you name another televised sport with commentators who have not participated professionally in that sport ? For your info I was implying that Harmon and Kirby have no professional experience in cycling in any degree - so what knowledge and experience can they possibly input ?

And I agree this subject has been done to death but unfortunately its complacency that allows these twerps to continue in their jobs.

 

[Jaunty Monty]

There must be a hundred commentators on radio and television in the UK for football and I can't think of a single one who was a pro. Virtually every co-commentator is though.

Harmon has his faults but I think he does a pretty good job. I can't be doing with Kirby though. He has verbal diarrhea. Still he's much better than Hugh Porter who should stick to the track.

 

[Mambo95]

There must be a hundred commentators on radio and television in the UK for football and I can't think of a single one who was a pro. Virtually every co-commentator is though.

Harmon has his faults but I think he does a pretty good job. I can't be doing with Kirby though. He has verbal diarrhea. Still he's much better than Hugh Porter who should stick to the track.

You can't think of one who was a pro and then mention multiple World Champion Hugh Porter.

But you're right though. Most top commentators aren't ex-pros. The ones I can think of are Eddie Butler, Martin Bundle, Steve Cram and most of the cricket lot.

 

[hfer07]

I notice that nobody has mentioned David Duffield in this thread - perhaps you haven't been following cycling long enough. He was happy to entertain us all with local colour and history during stages of the Tour, but unfortunately had a tendency to miss attacks or other incidents while he was doing so. I'm not a really big fan of either Harmon or Kirby, but I remember the relief I felt when I first heard them, and frankly, given a choice between them and Phil'n'Paul, I would choose them any day. Perhaps we just need to wait for David Millar to retire. I could imagine being able to listen to him for five hours straight...

Is because of his absence that we the fans feel frustrated & left in the dark with imbeciles like Carlton Kirby

 

[Benotti69]

How about you name another televised sport with commentators who have not participated professionally in that sport ? For your info I was implying that Harmon and Kirby have no professional experience in cycling in any degree - so what knowledge and experience can they possibly input ?

And I agree this subject has been done to death but unfortunately its complacency that allows these twerps to continue in their jobs.

The levels of broadcasting have been dropping for the last 3 decades all across the board. To expect a satellite sports channel to give anything better is crazy. The same sporting federation is run by amateurs, for most part the sport is written about by people who wanna be hacks never mind journalists and you expect quality commentating. I feel lucky a guy like Kelly does it. I am glad i dont have to listen to Virenque on french eurosport or the dutchies.......

Have you contacted eurosport with your complaint?......

....and at the end of the day who gives a f***, plenty of stations covering cycling to avoid having to listen to CK if he bothers you that much.

Your posts point to something upsetting you more than bad commentating, it borders on psychosis to pursue this so much to post constantly about it on twitter, a cycling forum and possible other avenues.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

How about you name another televised sport with commentators who have not participated professionally in that sport ? For your info I was implying that Harmon and Kirby have no professional experience in cycling in any degree - so what knowledge and experience can they possibly input ?

And I agree this subject has been done to death but unfortunately its complacency that allows these twerps to continue in their jobs.

Sticking to English-language commentators so as to avoid being too obscure, Al Michaels (baseball, American football) and Murray Walker (motorsport) are two I can mention off the top of my head. Lots of career commentators in football all over the world. The format in most sports has traditionally been career commentator to tell you what's happening, former competitor to tell you why.

And in cycling, over on Sporza I know José de Cauwer is a former competitor, but have Michel Wuyts or Karl Vannieuwkerke turned a pedal in anger in the pro ranks? We don't see complaints about them to the same extent.

 

[Cycle Chic]

The levels of broadcasting have been dropping for the last 3 decades all across the board. To expect a satellite sports channel to give anything better is crazy. The same sporting federation is run by amateurs, for most part the sport is written about by people who wanna be hacks never mind journalists and you expect quality commentating. I feel lucky a guy like Kelly does it. I am glad i dont have to listen to Virenque on french eurosport or the dutchies.......

Have you contacted eurosport with your complaint?......

....and at the end of the day who gives a f***, plenty of stations covering cycling to avoid having to listen to CK if he bothers you that much.

Your posts point to something upsetting you more than bad commentating, it borders on psychosis to pursue this so much to post constantly about it on twitter, a cycling forum and possible other avenues.

This is the kind of comment that degrades the Forum - if you have nothing constructive to say on the matter - sign off. However, I will address your assessment that I am bordering on being psychotic - Mr Harmon, Mr Kirby, Mr Duffield were fine when 3 people tuned into cycling - but now that it has a massive following and is also INTERNATIONAL - Eurosport should address the issue. Why must we put up with someone who is talking rubbish...and arrogantly talks over the professional co-commentator to listen to the sound of his own voice.

And for this Topic to have 27 pages it shows that it is worth discussing.

 

[Midnightfright]

This is the kind of comment that degrades the Forum - if you have nothing constructive to say on the matter - sign off. However, I will address your assessment that I am bordering on being psychotic - Mr Harmon, Mr Kirby, Mr Duffield were fine when 3 people tuned into cycling - but now that it has a massive following and is also INTERNATIONAL - Eurosport should address the issue. Why must we put up with someone who is talking rubbish...and arrogantly talks over the professional co-commentator to listen to the sound of his own voice.

And for this Topic to have 27 pages it shows that it is worth discussing.

I've heard very little to make this worth 27 pages u don't like him, u really don't like him more than I thought it would be possible to dislike someone you don't know personally but you do fair enough, some people like him some people appreciate the effort he puts into that's all there is to it really.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This is the kind of comment that degrades the Forum - if you have nothing constructive to say on the matter - sign off. However, I will address your assessment that I am bordering on being psychotic - Mr Harmon, Mr Kirby, Mr Duffield were fine when 3 people tuned into cycling - but now that it has a massive following and is also INTERNATIONAL - Eurosport should address the issue. Why must we put up with someone who is talking rubbish...and arrogantly talks over the professional co-commentator to listen to the sound of his own voice.

And for this Topic to have 27 pages it shows that it is worth discussing.

So who should be commentating? With my experience of English-language commentary teams, they're all terrible. Harmon is actually one of the least prone to shilling and useless fanboying, compared to the Vs. team or the guy who did the Tour of Oman the first time out he's actually really good.

The only English-language cycling commentator I've been genuinely impressed by was a guy I've only heard flying solo on the web coverage of the 2010 Tour of Turkey, called Marty something.

As cycling becomes more international, what are they to do? Give the reins to somebody with no experience at all?

 

[Mambo95]

The only English-language cycling commentator I've been genuinely impressed by was a guy I've only heard flying solo on the web coverage of the 2010 Tour of Turkey, called Marty something.

Matt Rendell, probably.

 

[movingtarget]

How about you name another televised sport with commentators who have not participated professionally in that sport ? For your info I was implying that Harmon and Kirby have no professional experience in cycling in any degree - so what knowledge and experience can they possibly input ?

And I agree this subject has been done to death but unfortunately its complacency that allows these twerps to continue in their jobs.

There have been many great sporting coaches and commentators who never played their sport professionally. Commentators do what anyone else does. They learn about the sport and research it and build their knowledge with experience. Most sports commentators have their quirks and none of them are right all of the time. I think Backstedt, Smithie and Kelly are fine. Harmon and Kirby can be irritating but no more than Liggett and Sherwen. I think they all do a pretty good job and it's easy to watch the action and tune out of the commentary