ScottyMuser said:
but the point is, someone (I beliebve it was you, but I apologise if it was someone else and you merely defending it) made the claim that without Greipel and Cav, HTC would still win plenty of races, and would have. We are therefore taking this to the logical conclusion of actually looking at what the other riders, the ones the team will be left with if Cav follows Greipel out the door, and pointing that actually, they may win a few smaller races, but they wouldn't really have had/would have a great season by anyones imagination - the 2 results of courser that do stand out is Eisels win at GW, and then Velits TT to the 3rd in the Vuleta (although, that was with the weakest field of all the GTs, and he did have a fair bit of luck on the way - i.e. Anton crashing out). Velits doesn't strike me as someone who will be able to match that, a flash in the panb, the same way as I view Wiggins.
But the point is their performance without Cav and Greipel was good. Even without these 2 they won 3 gt stages. In another stage, Goss cruised in behind Cav, so if you take out Cav, he won the stage. That makes 4. Only Saxo with 5 - 2 schleck, 2 canc 1 CAS, did better.
They were a constant presence in just about every stage race. They won Eneco and Cali, 3 different tters won stages through their season.
So what if Velits doesnt strike you as the type of person that wont repeat a gt. Under this logic, Freire didnt really win MSR because i dont expect him to win it again
4 gt stages a gt podium, 2 stage races and a classic. That is quite a good season. Certainatly not "very mediocre". I have no idea what possessed El pistolero to write such a thing.
But if you are looking to the future, then their season will get even better.
you say: "they may win a few smaller races, but they wouldn't really have had/would have a great season by anyones imagination"
Really? Bare in mind that all those stages spent leading out, working for Cav and Greipel would be directed towards someone else. They worked for Goss once and he got a stage. Another he got 3rd behind Cav after letting Hushovd cross the line 2nd. You think he wouldnt get more stages if they dedicated the team towards him. Same with Renshaw. You have him as a leadout he doesnt get results, but you let him go for stages, and there are stage wins.
And thats before we consider who they would have if they hypothetically let Cav go (which they wont). Thats his and Greipels salary able to be directed towards someone else. If they dont have Cav then that Salary will go towards another super rider.
And Tony Martin is improving. top talent right there. In TJVG they have potential stage races next year. Velits might not repeat Gt podium but who wouldnt want him.