Cavendish angry

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Dec 30, 2009
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The more Cav mouths off without winning anything and the more Greipel keeps winning surely means there is a reckoining coming within HTC. If Greipel wins big in the Giro (he is riding I think) the more pressure on Chav boy to produce come TDF time. And where is the form coming for that. I can't see it.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
That's a strange post from from you there 'loo. Greipel offers diminished value to his sponsors because of his looks and/or his muscles? I don't get it. Granted, 4 stages in Turkey isn't MSR or 6 in the TDF, but this guy is just winning, winning, winning, and last I checked the sponsors like to be associated to a winner. Even if he doesn't come in a small package like the boy racer. Who, by the way, I believe is still the best sprinter in the world until it is proven otherwise. And of course, nobody with smaller muscles could be associated to doping, right?

I'm not saying muscles are a problem, just his Robotic manner - I find him very hard to engage with without just writing him off as some soul-less eastern bloc throwback.

On that basis I can't see him being remotely marketable in the English speaking world, and when you combine that with a German home market turned off by doping, I just don't think wins in races only enthusiasts have heard of are going to match Cav's marketability, even if you think he's a ****.

As for people talking about Grieper ripping up the Giro and Cav cocking up the Tour, it could happen, but I don't think it makes much difference long term - Griepel will leave at the end of the year; Columbia are no where near stupid enough to throw away 2 years proven results at the top level for what we've seen this year.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Athletes and rock stars get really full of themselves and think they can create greatness at will. Cav should have his ortho wire his mouth closed and just race. Gripe is doing the talking with his legs.
 
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fatandfast said:
Gripe is doing the talking with his legs.

You are joking, right? Greipel was the one who started spouting off first, Cav just responded. Both are equally childish, but to claim Greipel is doing the talking with his legs is just plain wrong.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Hibbles said:
You are joking, right? Greipel was the one who started spouting off first, Cav just responded. Both are equally childish, but to claim Greipel is doing the talking with his legs is just plain wrong.

I thought Greipel pretty much just said he was disappointed to not be riding MSR since he was on good form? I didn't think what he said was anywhere near the level of Cav's ranting. But I could certainly be wrong and I am too lazy to look up the quote from Greipel right now.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
I thought Greipel pretty much just said he was disappointed to not be riding MSR since he was on good form? I didn't think what he said was anywhere near the level of Cav's ranting. But I could certainly be wrong and I am too lazy to look up the quote from Greipel right now.

This is correct and he said it with that German reserved manor. he said that he hoped the team would use him instead of waiting for a 100% healthy Cav and he thought his results and fitness afforded him a chance. Cav said everybody knows how good I am, anybody can look like a stud if you race tiny,crap races and dominate a bunch of nobodies. Cav has continued to tell everybody how great he is in all English printed mags here in the US, and he said he thought Italy was better than the ToC for his style. There is no controversy just a couple of young guns speaking their minds and an old dude afraid to manage them.When your flying cycling is no team sport,when you need a bottle or a wheel the big rooster will quiet down and be glad he doesn't have to get his own feed bag or chase every break that contains a threat. They both come from beer drinking countries so I am sure it will all be worked out somehow. I give Cav the advantage because his teeth are wired in and are harder to knock out.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Hibbles said:
You are joking, right? Greipel was the one who started spouting off first, Cav just responded. Both are equally childish, but to claim Greipel is doing the talking with his legs is just plain wrong.

Griepel expressed his disappointment in the non-selection for msr.

Cav disrespected these 'smaller' races. He completely belittled his team mate. And he practically hinted at being god.

Equally childish ey...
 
May 6, 2009
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And if Greipel doesn't win those races then he gets slated for it, and if he still wins, he gets slated as a flat track bully (as in cashing in against weaker opposition). I would rather take the latter myself.
 
May 13, 2009
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Rider's PR value not limited by national origin

Waterloo Sunrise said:
Except Greipel looks like one of his parents was a Robot, and his home market hates cycling for its doping, Joe.

On that basis I'm really not sure what real sponsor value Greipel offers - he always reminds me of Ivan Drago.

Okkk, now we're getting into two different things, which are, however, related:

1) The rider's impact and value to the team when measured by racing wins or in-race performance in service of the attainment of some sporting goal.

2) The rider's impact and value to the team in furthering the marketing goals of the organization and its sponsors.

The second can certainly be enhanced by someone at the top of their game in the first, but - as others have pointed out - even a basically win-less Cav still delivers marketing value because he continues to generate media impressions that have not yet become so clearly detrimental to the images of the team and its sponsors that management has to step-in and muzzle him.

Without going into great detail, just b/c Greipel is German and his home market is hostile or tepid to cycling doesn't mean that his sporting performances this year aren't contributing to the furtherance of #2, above. It all depends on what the team and sponsors' marketing and business goals are, and how Greipel's image and performances are used in the campaign to realize them. Whilst Greipel is German, just because German cycling is in the doldrums, and the media predisposed to negative commentary on cycling, doesn't mean that Greipel's effectiveness as a brand ambassador is marginalized. He might be German, but cycling is a global sport and the impressions he generates are in media scattered around the world.

One of the few hypothetical scenarios I could think of where Greipel's winning would be bad for business would be if his victories came against (head-to-head, despite being teammates) and at the expense of a Cavendish who: was exclusively using and endorsing a particular product that Greipel did not even have access to. For example, if Scott created a "Mark Cavendish Blowhard" carbon team replica bike and it was promoted so heavily as being the embodiment of the essence of Cav - and no one else (least of all, Greipel) - and that in advertisements, team statements, company press releases and the spoon-feeding-of-copy-to-journalists, it was unequivocally described as the only bike capable of being ridden to victory in "6 or more stages of the Tour de France...and in the German equivalent of the parking-lot criterium (or whatever was the race in which 90% of the German market would ride). And it was the ONLY road bike Scott sold in Germany, and Greipel rode some other Scott bike that wasn't available to the German public - that wasn't even in the catalog (!!!) - and which was not promoted as a viable sporting or commercial option.

Far-fetched, but then each time Greipel won - anywhere in the world - and Cavendish didn't win, and the reports filtered back to the German press that Greipel won aboard his unavailable, afterthought-of-a-bike, which Scott dealers in Germany couldn't sell, while Cav's dream machine remained win-less, the Manx Missile's bike would be extremely unattractive to the buying public in Germany. :p
(eventually, of course, Scott would have to launch a new ad that revealed the big secret - that Greipel had been riding a stealth version of the same bike all along - haha ;)

lol ... anyway, I probably didn't need to create that silly example - you knew what I meant: a rider's PR value is not limited to his country of origin, unless that's the way in which the team and the team's sponsors decide to use him, but he fails to support the combined sporting and marketing efforts therein, (or the team and sponsor's fail to unlock his full promotional potential w/in the home market).
 
Sep 9, 2009
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joe_papp said:
Okkk, now we're getting into two different things, which are, however, related:

1) The rider's impact and value to the team when measured by racing wins or in-race performance in service of the attainment of some sporting goal.

2) The rider's impact and value to the team in furthering the marketing goals of the organization and its sponsors.

The second can certainly be enhanced by someone at the top of their game in the first, but - as others have pointed out - even a basically win-less Cav still delivers marketing value because he continues to generate media impressions that have not yet become so clearly detrimental to the images of the team and its sponsors that management has to step-in and muzzle him.

Without going into great detail, just b/c Greipel is German and his home market is hostile or tepid to cycling doesn't mean that his sporting performances this year aren't contributing to the furtherance of #2, above. It all depends on what the team and sponsors' marketing and business goals are, and how Greipel's image and performances are used in the campaign to realize them. Whilst Greipel is German, just because German cycling is in the doldrums, and the media predisposed to negative commentary on cycling, doesn't mean that Greipel's effectiveness as a brand ambassador is marginalized. He might be German, but cycling is a global sport and the impressions he generates are in media scattered around the world.

One of the few hypothetical scenarios I could think of where Greipel's winning would be bad for business would be if his victories came against (head-to-head, despite being teammates) and at the expense of a Cavendish who: was exclusively using and endorsing a particular product that Greipel did not even have access to. For example, if Scott created a "Mark Cavendish Blowhard" carbon team replica bike and it was promoted so heavily as being the embodiment of the essence of Cav - and no one else (least of all, Greipel) - and that in advertisements, team statements, company press releases and the spoon-feeding-of-copy-to-journalists, it was unequivocally described as the only bike capable of being ridden to victory in "6 or more stages of the Tour de France...and in the German equivalent of the parking-lot criterium (or whatever was the race in which 90% of the German market would ride). And it was the ONLY road bike Scott sold in Germany, and Greipel rode some other Scott bike that wasn't available to the German public - that wasn't even in the catalog (!!!) - and which was not promoted as a viable sporting or commercial option.

Far-fetched, but then each time Greipel won - anywhere in the world - and Cavendish didn't win, and the reports filtered back to the German press that Greipel won aboard his unavailable, afterthought-of-a-bike, which Scott dealers in Germany couldn't sell, while Cav's dream machine remained win-less, the Manx Missile's bike would be extremely unattractive to the buying public in Germany. :p
(eventually, of course, Scott would have to launch a new ad that revealed the big secret - that Greipel had been riding a stealth version of the same bike all along - haha ;)

lol ... anyway, I probably didn't need to create that silly example - you knew what I meant: a rider's PR value is not limited to his country of origin, unless that's the way in which the team and the team's sponsors decide to use him, but he fails to support the combined sporting and marketing efforts therein, (or the team and sponsor's fail to unlock his full promotional potential w/in the home market).



All perfectly good points, and I wasn't trying to suggest that people are of no marketing value outside their home market. The point is was skirting around with rude hints is that I don't think Greipel is remotely likeable, which is a big factor in having cross border appeal.

And yes, I know Cav can be a bit of a ****, and plenty of people will hate him for it, but he doest cause interest, and he "wears his heart of his sleave", whilst Greipel leaves you wondering if he has a heart at all.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
All perfectly good points, and I wasn't trying to suggest that people are of no marketing value outside their home market. The point is was skirting around with rude hints is that I don't think Greipel is remotely likeable, which is a big factor in having cross border appeal.

And yes, I know Cav can be a bit of a ****, and plenty of people will hate him for it, but he doest cause interest, and he "wears his heart of his sleave", whilst Greipel leaves you wondering if he has a heart at all.

Can a german speaker confirm or deny the Greipel=robot rhetoric please.
 
Feb 20, 2010
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I don't think he has that reputation here either (UK). When he's been interviewed he's seemed quite likable and down-to-earth. Germans have a reputation for being something like automatons (except if they're Bavarians, whereupon they're like Ute in the Simpsons), and Britain loves to stereotype them, but Greipel doesn't seem to grate with UK cycling fans any more than anybody else. And the perma-attacking style of the likes of Linus Gerdemann and Björn Schröder are all you need point to to prove that Germans can be interesting characters beneficial to the world of cycling.

Nah, Greipel's a big guy, but he's not robotic or monstrous.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
I don't think he has that reputation here either (UK). When he's been interviewed he's seemed quite likable and down-to-earth. Germans have a reputation for being something like automatons (except if they're Bavarians, whereupon they're like Ute in the Simpsons), and Britain loves to stereotype them, but Greipel doesn't seem to grate with UK cycling fans any more than anybody else. And the perma-attacking style of the likes of Linus Gerdemann and Björn Schröder are all you need point to to prove that Germans can be interesting characters beneficial to the world of cycling.

Nah, Greipel's a big guy, but he's not robotic or monstrous.

I'm not trying to stereotype - by and large the German's I've worked with have been some of the cheeriest people I've ever met, completely against what you would expect if you went off tired stereotypes.

But on Greipel, I'm afraid we've clearly seen different interviews, because automaton is just the word whenever I see him.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Susan Westemeyer said:
He certainly doesn't have that sort of reputation here in Germany.

Susan

Noone knows him, because he isn't allowed to ride the Tour and the Tour of Germany doesn't exist anymore.
For 99,99% percent of the german people, there is only the Tour de France. Furthermore cycling is dead in Germany, 70-80% of the UCI races vanished in thre years and in 2011 there is likely no ProTour Team anymore.
Only a Tour or multiple stage winner could create big meadia attention and I don't see Greipel doing that in 2010.

I think it's not about is behaviour, even if he would be "Mr. Cavendish super cool", nearly noone would know im in Germany at the moment.
 
Jan 18, 2010
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That sounds like the UK. Chris Hoy , Chris Boardman are well known to the general public in the UK but current cyclists are virtually unknown, even Cavendish.
 
Apr 12, 2010
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BikeCentric said:
I thought Greipel pretty much just said he was disappointed to not be riding MSR since he was on good form? I didn't think what he said was anywhere near the level of Cav's ranting. But I could certainly be wrong and I am too lazy to look up the quote from Greipel right now.

As the following Quote shows Greipel has been moaning since before MSR:-

February 03, 2010 "Greipel hopes Cavendish moves to Sky, wants top billing in HTC Columbia"
His comments are unlikely to endear himself to HTC Columbia owner Bob Stapleton, but German sprinter André Greipel has admitted that he personally hopes Mark Cavendish moves to Team Sky for 2011.

“It would be the most favourable solution for everyone,” he said, according to Sportal.de. “Obviously I would love to see myself as Team Columbia’s number one sprinter.”

add this to the MSR statements and a small bonfire is left smouldering ready to explode with a little help from the press.
 
May 10, 2009
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7099916.ece

"I think there’s no one who can match me."
"People think that we haven’t any competition — it’s not because the others are bad, it’s because we are that much better, and that’s how I see my sprinting."
“I do stuff which other guys won’t do, so I say I’ve worked harder than other guys do. They can’t match that.”
“Lance [Armstrong] is the biggest name in the sport now, but I’m the second biggest".

I think he needs to speak with a sports psychologist. If he could just believe in himself more, a few more wins could come along for the guy.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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How do you spell: "arrogant toerag"

M-A-R-K C-A-V-E-N-D-I-S-H

Seriously, what the f-word is wrong with this guy?
 
Apr 12, 2010
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Digger said:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7099916.ece

"I think there’s no one who can match me."
"People think that we haven’t any competition — it’s not because the others are bad, it’s because we are that much better, and that’s how I see my sprinting."
“I do stuff which other guys won’t do, so I say I’ve worked harder than other guys do. They can’t match that.”
“Lance [Armstrong] is the biggest name in the sport now, but I’m the second biggest".

I think he needs to speak with a sports psychologist. If he could just believe in himself more, a few more wins could come along for the guy.


You seem very selective in your quotes only adding half of what was said i.e
“Lance [Armstrong] is the biggest name in the sport now, but I’m the second biggest".
which should have been “I’m not stating, ‘I think I’m the second biggest’, I’m saying in terms of coverage I was the second most covered rider last year.” a fact you can't argue with.
 
May 6, 2009
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You only have to see some of his comments re Ricco, to realise that his mouth is the size of his career victories.