• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

"Cavendish blasts Riccò"

Page 4 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
dimspace said:
His opinion is no less valid, because he didnt in the same sentance say "and so is armstrong, JB, valverde and everyone else and we are all cheats"..
[/B][/color]

I don´t think saying "I´ll have a hard time not getting off my bike and hitting him" is a valid opinion. With that one statement Cav erased the validity of his words into a mere rant.
 
May 6, 2009
8,522
1
0
Visit site
rhubroma said:
The following interview from la Gazzetta dello Sport (1-14-10)

Riccò Cavendish said you're a parassite to la Gazzetta.

"How so?"

In the sense that you didn't show remorse for having doped.

"What do you mean I wasn't remorseful? I even collaborated with the authorities, for which my suspension was reduced from 24 to 20 months. In any case, he's at the apogee of his career. He can therefore say what hew wants. I won't respond to him, I'm the last who should say something after what I did...In any case, what he says doesn't interest me. I can only let folks know that I'm training seriously to already be at a high level."

To the British Procycling magazine...he said it will be hard to not get off his bike and give you a thrashing when he sees you.

"Really? Ok, I'll take it. Not only on the bike but also the punches. I'll be quiet. (giggles) But I don't even know him! And he doesn't know me. How can someone say such a thing. He's taken a big shot."

...

How are you living through this period?

"Initially it was difficult...Now I'm more serene and I'm already beginning to take in the scent of the races....What that guy says, what's his name...Cavensdish, doesn't affect me. You silence the critics with your legs, not your mouth....However I've tried to put all those ugly things behind me and to learn the lessons from the experience."

Such as?

"That you can't do stupid things. Life isn't made up of shortcuts, but hard work, sacrifices. I've also got a better head now."

Etc.etc. What is different from other's comments (Basso, for example), is that he doesn't hypocritically try to portray himslef as having found some new moral standing or that he has gained a newly acquired wholesomeness (Millar), which, because also hypocritical, is thoroughly distasteful. He knows how the sport continues to be played. He did no more than what most did. He just got caught. Yet instead of trying to bombard us with the "morality propaganda," he simply says he's preparing himself to be the best upon his return.

And what else should he say? When we hear, from another story, the lies of Valverde, who, until further sanctioned, contines to ride with impunity despite the irrefutable crimes he has commited. I'd like, therefore, to see Cavendish also take a stand on this scandalous case. Naturally he won't, because a slimmy coward. Evidently Valverde has a weight in the sport, which, till now at least, has protected him, whereas the Italian was expendable. I hope Cavandish from now on just shuts up.

Top marks to Ricco there in terms of response. In the PCM article he said "It's human nature to want to be stronger, better, richer".
 
Apr 1, 2009
187
0
0
Visit site
blackcat said:
again, 'nother syllogism. "cos he's crap in the mtns"

so what, so am I, and all the dope in th world won't make me into a pro, but it will lift my baseline. If you know Cav's baseline is "crap in the mtns" moved to "only crap in the mtns", and not "crapper in the mtns" to merely "crap in the mtns" this argument has no water.

Thanks for holding my hand & walking me through it, ive left an apple on your desk teacher & hope you enjoy it. You could have also highlighted the part where I typed that i wasnt calling it one way or the other but you havent. I didnt put up any argument apart from the fact that your blasting Cavendish for giving out about Ricco & that Cavendish must be doped to the gills. Like others here id like your proof on that. But hey the sports been riddled with it for years so that in itself must be enough. You cant blast everyone just cos you think all are doping, that is the argument that has no water. I havent a clue who is these days until I see positives turn up. That to me is fair & equitable. Do I trust any of them?? Very few. Now would you like me to arch my back a bit further for you or would you like to swap positions? Also i just noticed that this is my 69th post!! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Alternatively we can exchange water bottles going up the mountains, i too am "crap in the mountains". Oh for a little company........
 
rhubroma said:
The following interview from la Gazzetta dello Sport (1-14-10)

Riccò Cavendish said you're a parassite to la Gazzetta.

"How so?"

In the sense that you didn't show remorse for having doped.

"What do you mean I wasn't remorseful? I even collaborated with the authorities, for which my suspension was reduced from 24 to 20 months. In any case, he's at the apogee of his career. He can therefore say what hew wants. I won't respond to him, I'm the last who should say something after what I did...In any case, what he says doesn't interest me. I can only let folks know that I'm training seriously to already be at a high level."

To the British Procycling magazine...he said it will be hard to not get off his bike and give you a thrashing when he sees you.

"Really? Ok, I'll take it. Not only on the bike but also the punches. I'll be quiet. (giggles) But I don't even know him! And he doesn't know me. How can someone say such a thing. He's taken a big shot."

...

How are you living through this period?

"Initially it was difficult...Now I'm more serene and I'm already beginning to take in the scent of the races....What that guy says, what's his name...Cavensdish, doesn't affect me. You silence the critics with your legs, not your mouth....However I've tried to put all those ugly things behind me and to learn the lessons from the experience."

Such as?

"That you can't do stupid things. Life isn't made up of shortcuts, but hard work, sacrifices. I've also got a better head now."

Etc.etc. What is different from other's comments (Basso, for example), is that he doesn't hypocritically try to portray himslef as having found some new moral standing or that he has gained a newly acquired wholesomeness (Millar), which, because also hypocritical, is thoroughly distasteful. He knows how the sport continues to be played. He did no more than what most did. He just got caught. Yet instead of trying to bombard us with the "morality propaganda," he simply says he's preparing himself to be the best upon his return.

And what else should he say? When we hear, from another story, the lies of Valverde, who, until further sanctioned, contines to ride with impunity despite the irrefutable crimes he has commited. I'd like, therefore, to see Cavendish also take a stand on this scandalous case. Naturally he won't, because a slimmy coward. Evidently Valverde has a weight in the sport, which, till now at least, has protected him, whereas the Italian was expendable. I hope Cavandish from now on just shuts up.

I am starting to like ricco :D
 
rhubroma said:
The following interview from la Gazzetta dello Sport (1-14-10)

Riccò Cavendish said you're a parassite to la Gazzetta.

"How so?"

In the sense that you didn't show remorse for having doped.

"What do you mean I wasn't remorseful? I even collaborated with the authorities, for which my suspension was reduced from 24 to 20 months. In any case, he's at the apogee of his career. He can therefore say what hew wants. I won't respond to him, I'm the last who should say something after what I did...In any case, what he says doesn't interest me. I can only let folks know that I'm training seriously to already be at a high level."

To the British Procycling magazine...he said it will be hard to not get off his bike and give you a thrashing when he sees you.

"Really? Ok, I'll take it. Not only on the bike but also the punches. I'll be quiet. (giggles) But I don't even know him! And he doesn't know me. How can someone say such a thing. He's taken a big shot."

...

How are you living through this period?

"Initially it was difficult...Now I'm more serene and I'm already beginning to take in the scent of the races....What that guy says, what's his name...Cavensdish, doesn't affect me. You silence the critics with your legs, not your mouth....However I've tried to put all those ugly things behind me and to learn the lessons from the experience."

Such as?

"That you can't do stupid things. Life isn't made up of shortcuts, but hard work, sacrifices. I've also got a better head now."

Etc.etc. What is different from other's comments (Basso, for example), is that he doesn't hypocritically try to portray himslef as having found some new moral standing or that he has gained a newly acquired wholesomeness (Millar), which, because also hypocritical, is thoroughly distasteful. He knows how the sport continues to be played. He did no more than what most did. He just got caught. Yet instead of trying to bombard us with the "morality propaganda," he simply says he's preparing himself to be the best upon his return.

And what else should he say? When we hear, from another story, the lies of Valverde, who, until further sanctioned, contines to ride with impunity despite the irrefutable crimes he has commited. I'd like, therefore, to see Cavendish also take a stand on this scandalous case. Naturally he won't, because a slimmy coward. Evidently Valverde has a weight in the sport, which, till now at least, has protected him, whereas the Italian was expendable. I hope Cavandish from now on just shuts up.

It seems to me that Ricco is saying "I got caught but there are many who don't. I'm back to beat them on a level playing field and this time I don't plan on testing positive".

Is that why he's disliked? Because he doesn't deny doping in cycling, simply accepts it?
 
Mar 18, 2009
1,003
0
0
Visit site
He's disliked because he's not an English language 'good' doper but one of those dreadful European 'bad' dopers.

Ricco tells it like it is without any of the crocodile tears or disproportionate reactions of the Anglo-Saxons. But St Pat of the UCI, the patron saint of hypocrites, as ever knows all:

"There is a clash going on at the moment between two cultures. The Anglo-Saxon culture and what I might call the 'Mafia' Western European culture [meaning Belgium, France, Italy and Spain - ed.]. The Western European culture has to some extent, I won't say condoned doping, but because of their culture in life, the way they deal with everything else in life, they accept certain practices.

"The Anglo-Saxon cultures, which would be the Netherlands, Germany, England, Denmark, are the complete opposite. They have a completely different approach to the doping problem. I feel that it's very important that at the end of the day, the Anglo-Saxon approach wins out. If it doesn't, then the sport is doomed."

Funny how Germany has a history of systematic doping, and all those other fine upstanding nations have returned high profile doping cases - not least Rasmussen. The Anglo approach - dope, get caught, be 'remorseful', keep doping and don't get caught because you're an 'anglo' and have the full support of the UCI.
 
bianchigirl said:
He's disliked because he's not an English language 'good' doper but one of those dreadful European 'bad' dopers.

Ricco tells it like it is without any of the crocodile tears or disproportionate reactions of the Anglo-Saxons. But St Pat of the UCI, the patron saint of hypocrites, as ever knows all:

"There is a clash going on at the moment between two cultures. The Anglo-Saxon culture and what I might call the 'Mafia' Western European culture [meaning Belgium, France, Italy and Spain - ed.]. The Western European culture has to some extent, I won't say condoned doping, but because of their culture in life, the way they deal with everything else in life, they accept certain practices.

"The Anglo-Saxon cultures, which would be the Netherlands, Germany, England, Denmark, are the complete opposite. They have a completely different approach to the doping problem. I feel that it's very important that at the end of the day, the Anglo-Saxon approach wins out. If it doesn't, then the sport is doomed."

Funny how Germany has a history of systematic doping, and all those other fine upstanding nations have returned high profile doping cases - not least Rasmussen. The Anglo approach - dope, get caught, be 'remorseful', keep doping and don't get caught because you're an 'anglo' and have the full support of the UCI.

This quote just means Patty is an idiot, which is pretty established! If this argument were the reason why Ricco is disliked so much by some, then it would hold for Basso as well (and it doesn't). In other words, it is not the reason Ricco generates such reactions.

I have no real issue with Ricco's comments. He is not saying he is happy about it, nor is he saying it was such a terrible thing to do. However, he has a pretty strong history of saying things that generate reactions and tend to be polarizing ... this influences perceptions and people react to him based on the persona he has developed.
 
Mar 18, 2009
1,003
0
0
Visit site
[/irony]So there are 'good' dopers or 'bad' dopers depending on whether you like them or not? Silly me, and I thought all doping was 'bad' because it breaks the rules of the sport [/irony]
 
bianchigirl said:
[/irony]So there are 'good' dopers or 'bad' dopers depending on whether you like them or not? Silly me, and I thought all doping was 'bad' because it breaks the rules of the sport [/irony]

Too bad there was not a good irony face! ;)

Yes, the humor is not lost on me. With many it is not whether you cheated, it is how you are perceived.

An interesting choice of words, "good" or "bad", given that once practices such as doping become so entrenched, I would think moral judgements become increasingly difficult.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tangled Tango said:
I don´t think saying "I´ll have a hard time not getting off my bike and hitting him" is a valid opinion. With that one statement Cav erased the validity of his words into a mere rant.

on the assumption that we beleive every "quote" and "paraphrase" we read in the press...

heaven forbid the press would edit things, paraphrase things, pick out the best bits, quote things out of context.. :D
 
markene2 said:
I am starting to like ricco :D

You know, I generally don't like arrogance...and certainly Ricco has come across as a fairly arrogant guy. But then I saw that he actually came up with the goods. And he isn't boring. Nor a hypocrit.

Given that I believe (know) that pro cycling is also won or lost in the laboratories, Ricco's downfall (but not others just as guilty) and the way he reacted to it by not changing his character to satisfy the moralists out there like everyone else who has gotten busted (which is so boring...and dishonest), has meant that, even despite his difficult and at times disagreable personallity, I now find myself wishing him well upon his return.

Because I find it frankly sickening to see people, like a chameleon, who change their colors only to satisfy the demands of the environment in which they find themselves. They are insincere hypocrits, who in the case of cycling rather than taking a real stand on breaking the omerta that is ruining this sport, for convenience sake prefer to try and win public approval through their newly discovered "wholesomeness." Because to do otherwise, actually be sincere and tell all, would mean that they would have no way back into their profession.

Ricco understands what's at stake all to well and so chooses to just do what he had to to be able to come back. He knows he just wants to race, not save the sport and so spares us all the morality rhetoric which is laiden with oportunism and amounts to shameless hypocricy.
 
bianchigirl said:
He's disliked because he's not an English language 'good' doper but one of those dreadful European 'bad' dopers.

Ricco tells it like it is without any of the crocodile tears or disproportionate reactions of the Anglo-Saxons. But St Pat of the UCI, the patron saint of hypocrites, as ever knows all:

"There is a clash going on at the moment between two cultures. The Anglo-Saxon culture and what I might call the 'Mafia' Western European culture [meaning Belgium, France, Italy and Spain - ed.]. The Western European culture has to some extent, I won't say condoned doping, but because of their culture in life, the way they deal with everything else in life, they accept certain practices.

"The Anglo-Saxon cultures, which would be the Netherlands, Germany, England, Denmark, are the complete opposite. They have a completely different approach to the doping problem. I feel that it's very important that at the end of the day, the Anglo-Saxon approach wins out. If it doesn't, then the sport is doomed."

Funny how Germany has a history of systematic doping, and all those other fine upstanding nations have returned high profile doping cases - not least Rasmussen. The Anglo approach - dope, get caught, be 'remorseful', keep doping and don't get caught because you're an 'anglo' and have the full support of the UCI.

The guy is a little confused on his geography, given that all the above mentioned nations pertain to Western Europe.

Well, in terms of Anglo moral high standards: I suggest he review his history books. If he ever took a look at them before...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
rhubroma said:
Well, in terms of Anglo moral high standards: I suggest he review his history books. If he ever took a look at them before...

Or someone could look at his own history and remind him of the time he hid is nationality so that he could compete in South Africa during apartheid...
 
rhubroma said:
The guy is a little confused on his geography, given that all the above mentioned nations pertain to Western Europe.

Well, in terms of Anglo moral high standards: I suggest he review his history books. If he ever took a look at them before...

Ah yes, for example The Crusades. Just chock full of Anglo moral goodness! :D
 
Jul 23, 2009
2,891
1
0
Visit site
dimspace said:
on the assumption that we beleive every "quote" and "paraphrase" we read in the press...

heaven forbid the press would edit things, paraphrase things, pick out the best bits, quote things out of context.. :D

We can't just accept the lines we like and discount those we don't. I'm starting to think the press are pretty smart, after all they knew what Wiggins was thinking months before he did! :D You have to admit, this is the kind of brash talk that Boy Racer is known for. Sometimes his mouth reacts as quickly as his legs and the odd stupid thing pops out. Youth.....
 
Aug 6, 2009
32
0
0
Visit site
The suggestion that nationality/race has anything to do with the designation of good vs bad dopers is ludacris.

I would suggest a 'good' doper is someone who upon return does not do it again, educates others about the dishonesty of the practice and aims to foster an anti-doping sentiment within their new team, sport(s) and the media (things that all clean riders should be doing anyway). There must also be some acknowledgement that they have damaged the sport and the careers of clean riders. This does not mean an apology as such.

I do NOT expect people to out their mates, particularly when all their friends and probably extended family are involved in the peleton. I would find it very difficult to do the same. Also dropping names does not solve the problem as riders still have to be "caught" before sanctioning can take place.
 
awal3207 said:
I would suggest a 'good' doper is someone who upon return does not do it again, educates others about the dishonesty of the practice and aims to foster an anti-doping sentiment within their new team, sport(s) and the media (things that all clean riders should be doing anyway). There must also be some acknowledgement that they have damaged the sport and the careers of clean riders. This does not mean an apology as such.
I do NOT expect people to out their mates, particularly when all their friends and probably extended family are involved in the peleton. I would find it very difficult to do the same. Also dropping names does not solve the problem as riders still have to be "caught" before sanctioning can take place.

Maybe just a real heartfelt motivational speech to their peers then, and call it a day?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXnUZBD_qV4
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Visit site
BikeCentric said:
Ah yes, for example The Crusades. Just chock full of Anglo moral goodness! :D

I presume the older Crusades, not the newer one started by Bush? His history is still being lived out, unfortunately. But the perception in each countries press is enlightening. The German media, in particular, seems to lash out at what is similar to remnants of the East German athletic experiment. Other countries don't have that historical context. I think Bianchi G is correct about the East Euro's...they've always fought against everyone and probably consider any advantage as acceptable.
 
Oct 2, 2009
19
0
0
Visit site
blackcat said:
I agree with most of that Bro, and you are one of the most informed and insightful posters, us the refugees from CF.

But there is a syllogism there, that the GT GC guys, to win, they gotta dope. I disagree that only the GC guys winning gotta use the heavy plans. The sprinters, classics guys, the chrono riders, to win, they all use the big programs.

Cav's jaw and mouth, his entire visage has changed this last 3 years.

Cipo once went on Italian tv, a sports show, in blacked out shadow, and with his voice changed, and said he could not have ridden as a pro, much less won, without the big program of testo, other roids, epo, etc.

Guys come and go, how about the Spaniard Perdiguero in 2005.

Cyrille Guimard said Baden Cooke would be the next major classics star, after his phenomenal 2002 and 2003 seasons. Then Cookie was implicated with Philippe Boyer and backed off. And just makes up the numbers.

Petacchi came out of nowhere. He was the leadout man for Fabrizio Guidi for heaven's sake.

Cav, charging big time. All the sprinters do it. No difference.

So if everybody is doping than whats the point.

I have a friend who believes there should be an "unlimited" sub category of racing, where doping is legal. I suppose that would be interesting. But I just dont think that everyone is doping, if they are then there is no hope and no reason to watch racing.
 
May 6, 2009
8,522
1
0
Visit site
TBH whilst I think Ricco is a douchebag for taking CERA and getting caught, at least he has been honest about it all, named names, and said it is natural for a human to want to be richer. In his interview Ricco seems to think he will do it clean because he has recently become a father.

What disappoint me more, would be a guy like Magnus Backstedt had tested positive in his career, or latter admitted to it to taking drugs. And this is a guy who won the Hell of the North, a few GT stages, a member of bike pure, and his junior development is also a member, and who backed ASO's decision to ban Astana from it's 2008 races.

Sort of how I look at things.
 
This is good.

I’m not going to respond because I’m the last person who can speak after what I did. He’s the number-one sprinter in the world and so he’s always right. I’m in the wrong and can’t respond until we see each other on the road. However I’m not that bothered about what he’s said or what he thinks. I can only guarantee people that I’m training hard and I’m already at a very good level.
 
Dec 29, 2009
409
0
0
Visit site
flicker said:
Me thinks all the major riders are PED users.

A couple of things about Ricco. compares himself to Pantani,finished Saunier Duval as sponsor, cost a lot of people jobs, made sport bad. Finishing off with some lawyer speak, to let the authorities know that he is repentent and he deserves a shorter sentence......Ricco, I not like that man.

Cav can say what he wants but it would be fun to see Cav KO the Cobra![/QUOTE]

i shook hands with Cav last year and he has small, soft hands. in fact if i didn't know better...............

p327584044-5.jpg


ed rader