Cav's leadout man?

[simo1733]

Its much the same thing if you do it right

Dave Brailsford says that you can do both the tour and the Olympic road race.

 

[LugHugger]

Dave Brailsford says that you can do both the tour and the Olympic road race.

You're right, he did. But that was after Copenhagen and before the parcours for next year's Tour had been leaked. What he did not say was that you can win the green jersey, the yellow jersey and the Olympic road race with essentially the same riders - assuming that GB's Olympic Road Race squad is Cavendish, Wiggins, Froome, Thomas and AN Other (Hammond/Hunt/Stannard?).

 

[JRanton]

VERY early days obviously but the lead out didn't exactly look too clever in Qatar. Rather than simply missing Renshaw, the bigger issue seemed to be missing the HTC engines earlier in the train (Martin, Rabon, Velits, Bak, Grabsch etc). Trouble is all of Sky's best engines either have their own ambitions (Olympics, GC at stage races) or are riding in support of Wiggins and Froome elsewhere.

Cav's still going to win lots of races but if they don't get it right then it's going to cost him every now and again (yesterday for example).

 

[movingtarget]

Cavendish has proved that he does not need a sprint train to win. McEwen was the same. The sprint train just means that he wins by a bigger margin. With his track experience he is usually pretty good at positioning himself. Like yesterday, it sometimes goes wrong. Just part of being a sprinter.

 

[JRanton]

Cavendish has proved that he does not need a sprint train to win. McEwen was the same. The sprint train just means that he wins by a bigger margin. With his track experience he is usually pretty good at positioning himself. Like yesterday, it sometimes goes wrong. Just part of being a sprinter.

I'm fully aware that he doesn't need a sprint train to win. You could say that the sprint train means that he wins by a bigger margin but it also means that he doesn't get blocked off by other riders in the last 500m like yesterday.

 

[CobbleStoner]

early season or not, Qatar showed that Renshaw still is the best until the last 200m, awesome leadout man that Matt White totally screwed up on not taking to worlds, but he is just that. good for Bos and Bling this coming year hopefully.
who is Lars Bak riding for this year? I think he is the most underated part of HTC's success.
my leadout dream team Steegmans, Bak, Martin, Hincapie, Renshaw, (insert glory sprinter here)

 

[movingtarget]

early season or not, Qatar showed that Renshaw still is the best until the last 200m, awesome leadout man that Matt White totally screwed up on not taking to worlds, but he is just that. good for Bos and Bling this coming year hopefully.
who is Lars Bak riding for this year? I think he is the most underated part of HTC's success.
my leadout dream team Steegmans, Bak, Martin, Hincapie, Renshaw, (insert glory sprinter here)

Agree. From what we have seen so far, Renshaw is great at getting in position to sprint and then does not have the kick to win the stage. I know it's early in the season but if the pattern continues he will end up being the leadout man again. This time for Bos and Matthews, whether Renshaw likes it or not. Not all trackies make successful bunch sprinters. O'Grady did the right thing by forgetting about the green jersey and becoming a strong classics type rider, stage poacher and a great domestique. He was getting beaten by the same guys all the time and decided to change his style of riding. Renshaw may have to do the same but it's early days yet.

 

[Midnightfright]

Agree. From what we have seen so far, Renshaw is great at getting in position to sprint and then does not have the kick to win the stage. I know it's early in the season but if the pattern continues he will end up being the leadout man again. This time for Bos and Matthews, whether Renshaw likes it or not. Not all trackies make successful bunch sprinters. O'Grady did the right thing by forgetting about the green jersey and becoming a strong classics type rider, stage poacher and a great domestique. He was getting beaten by the same guys all the time and decided to change his style of riding. Renshaw may have to do the same but it's early days yet.

It looks like this year his leadout man is whoevers wheel he can get on too. I secretly hope he spends the whole season winning of Farrars wheel so i can watch Tyler internally combust.

 

[movingtarget]

It looks like this year his leadout man is whoevers wheel he can get on too. I secretly hope he spends the whole season winning of Farrars wheel so i can watch Tyler internally combust.

I don't rate Farrar in the same class as Greipel, Cavendish and a few others. He is pretty inconsistent with his sprints.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Hondo > Renshaw.

 

[canyonball]

That's debatable and not a fair comparison, IMO. Hondo is more important to Petacchi, than Renshaw to Cavendish, for obvious reasons.

 

[Midnightfright]

I don't rate Farrar in the same class as Greipel, Cavendish and a few others. He is pretty inconsistent with his sprints.

Either do I but i would love to watch his reaction of it happening for the 10th time in a row.

 

[movingtarget]

Either do I but i would love to watch his reaction of it happening for the 10th time in a row.

Obviously, banging the handlebars is simply not enough for some of the beaten brigade !

 

[El Pistolero]

It looks like this year his leadout man is whoevers wheel he can get on too. I secretly hope he spends the whole season winning of Farrars wheel so i can watch Tyler internally combust.

Trust me, it would be much funnier the other way around

There's only one guy in your post that has anger management problems and it isn't Farrar.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's debatable and not a fair comparison, IMO. Hondo is more important to Petacchi, than Renshaw to Cavendish, for obvious reasons.

Well, we're told over and over again, "Renshaw is the best leadout man in the sport". If the comparison is fair, then it needs qualifying, because there are situations in which Hondo is better. For example, situations that don't involve fists or headbutting.

Renshaw is great on the end of a train, has the right lines, blistering pace and aggression. Hondo has a much more varied job to do, because he doesn't have the benefit of a team that control the whole event up until that point, and then does the job all on his own. Does Mark?

 

[Midnightfright]

Trust me, it would be much funnier the other way around

There's only one guy in your post that has anger management problems and it isn't Farrar.

Cav is no doubt more tempramental but Farrar's hissy fits are funnier for me.

 

[canyonball]

Renshaw is great on the end of a train, has the right lines, blistering pace and aggression. Hondo has a much more varied job to do, because he doesn't have the benefit of a team that control the whole event up until that point, and then does the job all on his own. Does Mark?

Yes, they serve different purposes and fit differently on their team's sprinting plan. Hence, it's not fair comparison to me. It's very easy for a cycling fan to look at Hondo and consider it more impressive, because he has to do a load of work. It's very easy for a cycling fan to look at Renshaw and consider it more impressive, because his leader wins more. The man I would choose for the job, would ultimately be down to my needs. It's not x>y period. Not that straightfoward at least.

Mind you, I find this "best of whatever competitions" more and more silly. For me, the best domestique, the best leadout, the best watter carrier is the one that keeps the leader happy and winning. Hondo leading Cav?...That would be a funny sight.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes, they serve different purposes and fit differently on their team's sprinting plan. Hence, it's not fair comparison to me. It's very easy for a cycling fan to look at Hondo and consider it more impressive, because he has to do a load of work. It's very easy for a cycling fan to look at Renshaw and consider it more impressive, because his leader wins more. The man I would choose for the job, would ultimately be down to my needs. It's not x>y period. Not that straightfoward at least.

And yet it seems to be absolutely set in stone, at least in the media, that everybody accepts Renshaw as the best leadout man in the sport. It's easy to appear the best when you have a guy behind you so good that he'll win even if you do your job at a mediocre level.

Renshaw is damn good at what he does. But we have no idea if he could do what Hondo does, because he's never asked to. I want to see what Cavendish does if people get under his skin now, since the old trick used to be "hide behind Renshaw".

 

[El Pistolero]

Sigh, again with the whining about the headbutting? You do realize the only reason why they do that is to keep their balance? Or do you think Cavendish can use his shoulders, against someone like Greipel, to keep his balance?

 

[Kvinto]

Nevertheless in 2 out of 3 ToQ sprints that Cav was involved in, Sky did a good job and only in the last one he was left alone. It's not the matter of train, he just shouldn't be boxed and he does everything else on his own. Renshaw is an awesome lead out man and so is Hondo or Dean and many others but it's hard to evaluate a lead-out man because we do it by the results of main sprinters. The better sprinter is the more publicity he and his lead-out man gets. But sometimes you get to see some awesome lead-outs like Geraint Thomas to Greg Henderson on the last Paris - Nice or on the other hand i liked how Demare was led out yesterday but i even don't know who actually led him out, just make an assumption that it was Delage

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Whilst he doesn't need a lead-out to win, I'm a little concerned that if Sky continue to leave him with the hoi-polloi all season long whilst he will still get 80% of his usual wins, he will crash an awful lot more.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Whilst he doesn't need a lead-out to win, I'm a little concerned that if Sky continue to leave him with the hoi-polloi all season long whilst he will still get 80% of his usual wins, he will crash an awful lot more.

It seems bizarre to spend a great deal of money on the best sprinter in the world and then not do everything possible to maximise the return. Crashes aside, 80% of his usual wins would be 20% thrown away. And it only takes one big crash to wipe out a season.

 

[El Pistolero]

It seems bizarre to spend a great deal of money on the best sprinter in the world and then not do everything possible to maximise the return. Crashes aside, 80% of his usual wins would be 20% thrown away. And it only takes one big crash to wipe out a season.

What else could they have done? Quickstep and Lotto shared Cav's HTC lead-out train between them.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

What else could they have done? Quickstep and Lotto shared Cav's HTC lead-out train between them.

There was nothing magical (perhaps clinical) about the HTC train - they just wanted it more because they actually knew their guy would win, and in 2009 other teams literally stopped trying to compete with them (there was a bit more competition the last 2 years).

Sky have plenty of engines if they want to commit them.

 

[El Pistolero]

There was nothing magical (perhaps clinical) about the HTC train - they just wanted it more because they actually knew their guy would win, and in 2009 other teams literally stopped trying to compete with them (there was a bit more competition the last 2 years).

Sky have plenty of engines if they want to commit them.

Tony Martin, Peter Velits, Grabsch, etc are pretty hard to replace. Wiggins won't be taking over Tony Martin's job for example.

Sky can form a decent lead-out train, but I doubt we'll see the same quality again as with the HTC lead-out train.