Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[zepecat]

Not only that.

Add the spring season where there snows sometimes in the giro.

Very different to the sunny climate in the Tour or Vuelta.

 

[deValtos]

It's all about the numbers and watts. The argument is akin to saying the guys doing the Vuelta atm are putting out less watts than the Tour, I don't know if this is the case.

Would be cool to see Froome's comparison between the two, hopefully he will say at the end of the race. He looks like he's even stronger than he was at the TDF though looks can be deceiving.

But yea I think the weather is the biggest issue for Froome in particular as he rides best in the heat.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Fact remains that the best GT rider in the world has yet to try Giro/Tour double.

Fact is that better have tried and failed

 

[Max Rockatansky]

“Potentially. If I come out of the Vuelta in good shape, and I’m hoping I’m not going to be on fumes in the last week, then I’d look forward to being part of the TTT over in Norway and potentially also the [individual] time trial. I don’t think the road race suits me at all, the conditions and the course, and I’d rather give that opportunity to somebody else to go for it there. But potentially the time trial and certainly the TTT, I think I could bring something to the line-up there.”

Dumoulin vs. Froome. Bring it on.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Not a chance. If it;'s anything like the hilly tt of the tour last year, and if Dumoulin is in similar shape as this years Giro it's not going to be a competition

1) 30km is probably Dumoulin's ideal distance (between 30-40 so far)
2) it's not a flat time trial, but with a hilly end, Dumoulin has been strongest and most dominant in hilly time trials between 30/40k
3) Dumoulin specifically peaked for that.

I'd be really surprised if Froome beat him. I even think only Rohan Dennis has a remote chance this year.

However in GT's, it's a different story. I think current Dumoulin has no chance against Froome (a top Froome) in a GT. Not even with 80km ITT. Froome is just a level extra uphill.

 

[Ruby United]

Most of my points have already been posted individually by other posters, but here is my opinion about Giro/Tour vs Tour/Vuelta:

1) Firstly, as has been pointed out, most GC riders come into the Tour fresh, having spent the better part of a year building up for it, doing whatever it takes to be in the best possible form. A top GC rider, even if he does win the Giro, will already have a hard GT in his legs coming into the Tour.
In contrast, by the Vuelta, most GT riders anyways have a season of racing in their legs including one GT. Furthermore, very few GT riders build their season around the Vuelta.
2) Secondly, the Giro is a more prestigious GT than the Vuelta. It has a long and rich history and is considered a more important GT by nearly all long-term cycling fans (something cycling newbies often forget).
3) Thirdly, partly because riders and teams are more fresh and partly because the parcours are so hard, the Giro is a harder and more tiring race than the Vuelta. And, as has been pointed out, to come into the Tour tired is much more dangerous than coming into the Vuelta tired.
4) Fourthly, every stage is raced hard in the Tour - meaning, the flat and hilly/rouler stages in the Tour are raced much harder. This is especially true due to numerous interconnected factors; a) teams and sponsors care much more about a Tour stage victory than a Vuelta victory. b) There are many more top sprinters in the Tour than Vuelta (this is also perhaps true of the Giro). c) Teams are significantly better for the Tour. We often forget that even domestiques often spend the season building their form to make the Tour team. The Tour team is carefully chosen and each rider is handpicked. d) There are more stronger teams in the Tour - none of those random (Spanish) teams and riders.
All this means that every stage in the Tour is raced full out and is more competitive than the Vuelta.
5) There is also the fact that in general the parcours of the Giro is harder than the Vuelta.
There are also other points, but I don't have enough time now to elaborate.

And then, in terms of Froome, there are several additional factors.
1) He really, really enjoys the severe heat, having grown up cycling in Southern Africa.
Quote from Froome in today's press conference: "The sweltering heat, that suits me."
In contrast, he doesn't like cold weather, and certainly not the snowy conditions of the Giro
2) He really enjoys the Vuelta. He likes riding it, like the atmosphere etc.
Quote from Froome in today's press conference: "Just to come back here, it’s great. The sweltering heat, that suits me, and it’s a great atmosphere out on the roads. The Spanish really get behind all the riders, not just the Spanish ones, even the foreigners, they appreciate a good, aggressive race, and that’s exactly what the Vuelta is.”
He really likes the Vuelta, and that makes a big difference for a rider. In contrast, he thoroughly dislikes the Giro, having been thrown off the race the one time (that I know of*) that he raced it.

*EDIT: He actually has raced it twice

 

[portugal11]

Re:

Not a chance. If it;'s anything like the hilly tt of the tour last year, and if Dumoulin is in similar shape as this years Giro it's not going to be a competition

1) 30km is probably Dumoulin's ideal distance (between 30-40 so far)
2) it's not a flat time trial, but with a hilly end, Dumoulin has been strongest and most dominant in hilly time trials between 30/40k
3) Dumoulin specifically peaked for that.

I'd be really surprised if Froome beat him. I even think only Rohan Dennis has a remote chance this year.

However in GT's, it's a different story. I think current Dumoulin has no chance against Froome (a top Froome) in a GT. Not even with 80km ITT. Froome is just a level extra uphill.

I don't think so... this dumoulin is able to beat 2017 froome in tour 2018, I'm sure of that. The question is: will tom have a decent team in 2018 tour? If yes, he will win the tour.

 

[portugal11]

Most of my points have already been posted individually by other posters, but here is my opinion about Giro/Tour vs Tour/Vuelta:

1) Firstly, as has been pointed out, most GC riders come into the Tour fresh, having spent the better part of a year building up for it, doing whatever it takes to be in the best possible form. A top GC rider, even if he does win the Giro, will already have a hard GT in his legs coming into the Tour.
In contrast, by the Vuelta, most GT riders anyways have a season of racing in their legs including one GT. Furthermore, very few GT riders build their season around the Vuelta.
2) Secondly, the Giro is a more prestigious GT than the Vuelta. It has a long and rich history and is considered a more important GT by nearly all long-term cycling fans (something cycling newbies often forget).
3) Thirdly, partly because riders and teams are more fresh and partly because the parcours are so hard, the Giro is a harder and more tiring race than the Vuelta. And, as has been pointed out, to come into the Tour tired is much more dangerous than coming into the Vuelta tired.
4) Fourthly, every stage is raced hard in the Tour - meaning, the flat and hilly/rouler stages in the Tour are raced much harder. This is especially true due to numerous interconnected factors; a) teams and sponsors care much more about a Tour stage victory than a Vuelta victory. b) There are many more top sprinters in the Tour than Vuelta (this is also perhaps true of the Giro). c) Teams are significantly better for the Tour. We often forget that even domestiques often spend the season building their form to make the Tour team. The Tour team is carefully chosen and each rider is handpicked. d) There are more stronger teams in the Tour - none of those random (Spanish) teams and riders.
All this means that every stage in the Tour is raced full out and is more competitive than the Vuelta.
5) There is also the fact that in general the parcours of the Giro is harder than the Vuelta.
There are also other points, but I don't have enough time now to elaborate.

And then, in terms of Froome, there are several additional factors.
1) He really, really enjoys the severe heat, having grown up cycling in Southern Africa.
Quote from Froome in today's press conference: "The sweltering heat, that suits me."
In contrast, he doesn't like cold weather, and certainly not the snowy conditions of the Giro
2) He really enjoys the Vuelta. He likes riding it, like the atmosphere etc.
Quote from Froome in today's press conference: "Just to come back here, it’s great. The sweltering heat, that suits me, and it’s a great atmosphere out on the roads. The Spanish really get behind all the riders, not just the Spanish ones, even the foreigners, they appreciate a good, aggressive race, and that’s exactly what the Vuelta is.”
He really likes the Vuelta, and that makes a big difference for a rider. In contrast, he thoroughly dislikes the Giro, having been thrown off the race the one time (that I know of) that he raced it.

Truly spot on

 

[bigcog]

It's all academic, Froome obviously wants to win the tour as many time as possible or at least join the elite 5 club and he's getting older so time is running out. I wouldn't be surprised if he just does the tour next year if he does win the vuelta this year. Can't ever see him attempting the giro-tour double unless he does win a fifth tour and is content with that and takes the risk the following year.

 

[portugal11]

It's all academic, Froome obviously wants to win the tour as many time as possible or at least join the elite 5 club and he's getting older so time is running out. I wouldn't be surprised if he just does the tour next year if he does win the vuelta this year. Can't ever see him attempting the giro-tour double unless he does win a fifth tour and is content with that and takes the risk the following year.

I think froome will never win the giro. If he gets his fifth tour next year, he will be back to win his sixth, his seventh, he wants LA's record

 

[spalco]

If I was Froome, I would go for the 5 and then either retire or attempt the Giro. Or try the Giro now.
Going for #6 would make him even more hated among cycling fans, which he may or may not give a *** about, I don't know.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

If I was Froome, I would go for the 5 and then either retire or attempt the Giro. Or try the Giro now.
Going for #6 would make him even more hated among cycling fans, which he may or may not give a **** about, I don't know.

Going for a 6th would be going straight for the Armstrong impersonation while you're trying not to be associated with him all the while very similarly.

Froome's window is closing. Make no mistake. Young talent is on the rise, but he's lucky enough that the best of it has been signed on his own team. I think he has another 2/3 years at the very top at most, and I also think it's harder for him to win the Giro than the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

Most of my points have already been posted individually by other posters, but here is my opinion about Giro/Tour vs Tour/Vuelta:

1) Firstly, as has been pointed out, most GC riders come into the Tour fresh, having spent the better part of a year building up for it, doing whatever it takes to be in the best possible form. A top GC rider, even if he does win the Giro, will already have a hard GT in his legs coming into the Tour.
In contrast, by the Vuelta, most GT riders anyways have a season of racing in their legs including one GT. Furthermore, very few GT riders build their season around the Vuelta.
2) Secondly, the Giro is a more prestigious GT than the Vuelta. It has a long and rich history and is considered a more important GT by nearly all long-term cycling fans (something cycling newbies often forget).
3) Thirdly, partly because riders and teams are more fresh and partly because the parcours are so hard, the Giro is a harder and more tiring race than the Vuelta. And, as has been pointed out, to come into the Tour tired is much more dangerous than coming into the Vuelta tired.
4) Fourthly, every stage is raced hard in the Tour - meaning, the flat and hilly/rouler stages in the Tour are raced much harder. This is especially true due to numerous interconnected factors; a) teams and sponsors care much more about a Tour stage victory than a Vuelta victory. b) There are many more top sprinters in the Tour than Vuelta (this is also perhaps true of the Giro). c) Teams are significantly better for the Tour. We often forget that even domestiques often spend the season building their form to make the Tour team. The Tour team is carefully chosen and each rider is handpicked. d) There are more stronger teams in the Tour - none of those random (Spanish) teams and riders.
All this means that every stage in the Tour is raced full out and is more competitive than the Vuelta.
5) There is also the fact that in general the parcours of the Giro is harder than the Vuelta.
There are also other points, but I don't have enough time now to elaborate.

And then, in terms of Froome, there are several additional factors.
1) He really, really enjoys the severe heat, having grown up cycling in Southern Africa.
Quote from Froome in today's press conference: "The sweltering heat, that suits me."
In contrast, he doesn't like cold weather, and certainly not the snowy conditions of the Giro
2) He really enjoys the Vuelta. He likes riding it, like the atmosphere etc.
Quote from Froome in today's press conference: "Just to come back here, it’s great. The sweltering heat, that suits me, and it’s a great atmosphere out on the roads. The Spanish really get behind all the riders, not just the Spanish ones, even the foreigners, they appreciate a good, aggressive race, and that’s exactly what the Vuelta is.”
He really likes the Vuelta, and that makes a big difference for a rider. In contrast, he thoroughly dislikes the Giro, having been thrown off the race the one time (that I know of) that he raced it.

Very good post. I also think that the Vuelta parcours with all the 10-20 minute efforts is way better suiting for riders coming high on form and high on fatigue.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

If I was Froome, I would go for the 5 and then either retire or attempt the Giro. Or try the Giro now.
Going for #6 would make him even more hated among cycling fans, which he may or may not give a **** about, I don't know.

As someone who obviously dislikes him a lot already, I'd rather see him win 3 more Tours than have him turn up at the Giro with the intention of winning.

 

[Valv.Piti]

If Froome cared what people think he might as well just stop racing. Lol. He doesn't give one single *** about that, nor should he.

The Giro would make sense for him if he wins this Vuelta. And its the race that suits him the least by far, generally, so it might not be a procession. Well, Im pretty sure it wont.

 

[SlickMongoose]

I think Froome would struggle a lot with the Giro, due to the weather.

Although, if he announces his intentions early, all of his major competitors might go for the Tour........

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I think Froome would struggle a lot with the Giro, due to the weather.

Although, if he announces his intentions early, all of his major competitors might go for the Tour........

Yep, it seems like everyone bar Contador, maybe Nibali (depending on the parcours) and maybe now Quintana or Dumoulin, are already beaten men as soon as Froome takes the to the start line.

If Froome goes to the Giro, everyone suddenly has a chance of winning the Tour instead of fighting for second from the start

 

[PremierAndrew]

As for Froome's chances of winning a Giro, 2013 Tirreno and a couple of his Romandies have been very similar in terms of parcours and weather, and Froome has fared more than well enough to be the top favourite if he properly targets the Giro, regardless of the parcours and who else turns up

But I do believe he'd need to be in top form for it, instead of going in at 90% and trying to keep something in reserve for the Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

He still lost to Nibbles. And it has been a few years since he has done well in Romandie.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

He still lost to Nibbles. And it has been a few years since he has done well in Romandie.

No rider in the current peloton would be able to match Nibali in that tirenno, including 2016 Nibs himself. The point is Froome still did very well, and as for recent performances in Romandie, well he's been lowkey targeting the Vuelta double since 2015. Ok, the Giro presents a greater challenge for Froome than the Tour or Vuelta, but realistically who would be capable of beating him if it's his only goal of the season? Maybe Dumoulin if there's enough TT kms and few enough hard climbs? But even that would require a very specific parcours imo

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

He still lost to Nibbles. And it has been a few years since he has done well in Romandie.

No rider in the current peloton would be able to match Nibali in that tirenno, including 2016 Nibs himself. The point is Froome still did very well, and as for recent performances in Romandie, well he's been lowkey targeting the Vuelta double since 2015. Ok, the Giro presents a greater challenge for Froome than the Tour or Vuelta, but realistically who would be capable of beating him if it's his only goal of the season? Maybe Dumoulin if there's enough TT kms and few enough hard climbs? But even that would require a very specific parcours imo

Looooooooool. 2014 contador would have beaten nibali very easily. Froome dropped nibali very easily in the MTF. He cracked in the hilly stage because he is very weak in raining conditions when he isn't in top shape.

 

[Taxus4a]

It's all academic, Froome obviously wants to win the tour as many time as possible or at least join the elite 5 club and he's getting older so time is running out. I wouldn't be surprised if he just does the tour next year if he does win the vuelta this year. Can't ever see him attempting the giro-tour double unless he does win a fifth tour and is content with that and takes the risk the following year.

I think froome will never win the giro. If he gets his fifth tour next year, he will be back to win his sixth, his seventh, he wants LA's record

Lance has not got any record, you cant compare that fraud with the level of Froome.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

The problem most certainly is the giro-tour double. 2011 Contador failed as well, and Quintana fell at the first hurdle. It's much, much harder than a Tour-Vuelta double. Landa was able to rest up quite a few days, he didn't go all out every day as he wasn't fighting for GC, and a lot of the days when he was in the break he had a teammate to do the work for him.

Landa was in long breaways lot of days what is harder than to be on GC And he was damaged for a crash.

Landa finished at 36 minutes on GC and he lost 28 on Blockhaus, so he wanst resting any day.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

The problem most certainly is the giro-tour double. 2011 Contador failed as well, and Quintana fell at the first hurdle. It's much, much harder than a Tour-Vuelta double. Landa was able to rest up quite a few days, he didn't go all out every day as he wasn't fighting for GC, and a lot of the days when he was in the break he had a teammate to do the work for him.

Landa was in long breaways lot of days what is harder than to be on GC And he was damaged for a crash.

Landa finished at 36 minutes on GC and he lost 28 on Blockhaus, so he wanst resting any day.

Big lol to your post. How many minutes did he gain when the breaks had success?

 

[dastott]

Re:

If I was Froome, I would go for the 5 and then either retire or attempt the Giro. Or try the Giro now.
Going for #6 would make him even more hated among cycling fans, which he may or may not give a **** about, I don't know.

I really don't think Froome gives a hoot about what a few muppets on the Internet think. He wants to cement his legacy.