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Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

Page 454 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Is Froome over the hill?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 32 32.3%
  • No, the GC finished 40 minutes ago but Froomie is still climbing it

    Votes: 57 57.6%
  • No he is totally winning the Vuelta

    Votes: 22 22.2%

  • Total voters
    99
I tend to agree that Dawg's time has passed to make a Giro-Double bid and deliver. He won this year's Tour mainly thanks to a monster team. Decline? Too early to say for sure. But I sense that. Giro-Dumoulin was more impressive IMO. TourQuintana was beat up: missed opportunity. These two can beat Froome. I believe they can. Two years ago, no one stood a chance.

In the meantime, CF is killing this Vuelta...death by a thousand cuts. 15 seconds here, 10 seconds there, no one can match him. 2018 may be a different story, but right now, he rules.
 
Tonton said:
I tend to agree that Dawg's time has passed to make a Giro-Double bid and deliver. He won this year's Tour mainly thanks to a monster team. Decline? Too early to say for sure. But I sense that. Giro-Dumoulin was more impressive IMO. TourQuintana was beat up: missed opportunity. These two can beat Froome. I believe they can. Two years ago, no one stood a chance.

In the meantime, CF is killing this Vuelta...death by a thousand cuts. 15 seconds here, 10 seconds there, no one can match him. 2018 may be a different story, but right now, he rules.

This is kind of the gamble though. If all the young guns head to the Tour, and Froome feels he is declining, maybe he would gamble to go Giro-Vuelta rather than lose the Tour.
 
TMP402 said:
Tonton said:
I tend to agree that Dawg's time has passed to make a Giro-Double bid and deliver. He won this year's Tour mainly thanks to a monster team. Decline? Too early to say for sure. But I sense that. Giro-Dumoulin was more impressive IMO. TourQuintana was beat up: missed opportunity. These two can beat Froome. I believe they can. Two years ago, no one stood a chance.

In the meantime, CF is killing this Vuelta...death by a thousand cuts. 15 seconds here, 10 seconds there, no one can match him. 2018 may be a different story, but right now, he rules.

This is kind of the gamble though. If all the young guns head to the Tour, and Froome feels he is declining, maybe he would gamble to go Giro-Vuelta rather than lose the Tour.
I was not saying Giro-Tour. On the contrary. Moving forward, I believe that Tour or Giro-Vuelta is the way to go. Showing up at 80% in July would mean defeat.
 
To have a really proper chance to do the giro-tour double, just a few big factors should add up:
1. a rider would better be a real all-rounder with both climbing and timetrialing strong abilities. pure climbing is not enough.
2. he should have several tours already under his belt and should be relatively young by gc contenders' standarts
3. he must love the giro and in the meantime the team shouldn't force him to ride the tour as a part of team marketing interests.

even if one of the points is not valid, we will see sheer gambles as quintana did this year.
 
Re: Re:

Matteo. said:
arvc40 said:
Froome must go for a Giro at some point, even if it means sacrificing a Tour. Realistic that he is probably the only man that could do Giro/Tour double.

Too old( and late) for giro-tour unfortunately . He would make the same mistake of 2015 contador.
This kind of challenge is to be done when you're at the top. Unfortunately both have missed the oppurtunity

Froome is at the top... Contador had no level to win the Tour after his santion, with Giro or without him.

The problem is not the Giro-Tour double, but the weather in May, but he can do it.

The problem is that the important race by far is le Tour.. Giro is for italians or for people not sure to win le Tour, or of your think is better for you to have the Giro before le Tour... Landa was at a very high level this year in both Giro and Tour showing a level to have won both races. (becouse Quintana wanst at his level in both of them, but anyway Giro is not a big problem for le Tour for some kind of riders)
 
The problem most certainly is the giro-tour double. 2011 Contador failed as well, and Quintana fell at the first hurdle. It's much, much harder than a Tour-Vuelta double. Landa was able to rest up quite a few days, he didn't go all out every day as he wasn't fighting for GC, and a lot of the days when he was in the break he had a teammate to do the work for him.
 
Re:

Singer01 said:
Does anybody think that if Froome took his Tour form to the Giro, and his Vuelta form to the tour he wouldn't be favourite for both?
Yes. Depending on the route. This year's route, Dumoulin would've still won the Giro even with Froome there, according to the estimated watts of both races. And we are yet to see how Froome fares in the last week.
 
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Re:

Singer01 said:
Does anybody think that if Froome took his Tour form to the Giro, and his Vuelta form to the tour he wouldn't be favourite for both?

Main issues are the cold weather in the Giro for Froome and if there's a super challenger at the TDF (which there is not atm but could change.) Otherwise it's very possible, assuming he finishes this Vuelta off well ofc.
 
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Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Singer01 said:
Does anybody think that if Froome took his Tour form to the Giro, and his Vuelta form to the tour he wouldn't be favourite for both?
Yes. Depending on the route. This year's route, Dumoulin would've still won the Giro even with Froome there, according to the estimated watts of both races. And we are yet to see how Froome fares in the last week.

The team would've been the biggest difference, I think Sky could've exposed Sunweb if they were riding for Froome. For instance the day Dumo got caught out in the split, if Froome had been in the front group with some of his million pound doms that could've been over right there.

Plus assuming Dumo had the leaders jersey after the TT, Froome not in leaders jersey = very aggressive, which is not how Quintana rides so I don't think you can call it. Very different circumstances.
 
Re: Re:

Taxus4a said:
Matteo. said:
arvc40 said:
Froome must go for a Giro at some point, even if it means sacrificing a Tour. Realistic that he is probably the only man that could do Giro/Tour double.

Too old( and late) for giro-tour unfortunately . He would make the same mistake of 2015 contador.
This kind of challenge is to be done when you're at the top. Unfortunately both have missed the oppurtunity

Froome is at the top... Contador had no level to win the Tour after his santion, with Giro or without him.

The problem is not the Giro-Tour double, but the weather in May, but he can do it.

The problem is that the important race by far is le Tour.. Giro is for italians or for people not sure to win le Tour, or of your think is better for you to have the Giro before le Tour... Landa was at a very high level this year in both Giro and Tour showing a level to have won both races. (becouse Quintana wanst at his level in both of them, but anyway Giro is not a big problem for le Tour for some kind of riders)


When ever I said that it's best to do the Giro of the tour first.

Anyway, one step at a time.
1) froome is at the top. It may be but I do not see him as dominant as in 2013 or 2015 when he was at the top for me, and he should have tried the double.
Next season he goes for 33 years: young people are emerging (bartdet, aru, tom) and he does not seem to be dominated as he once did.
Trying to double (IPOTHETICALLY) in 2018 can be a suicide, I confirm that the right time is over. (I even think he can not win 2018 tour) . And I'm sorry because I'm sure he could do it with the right conditions (strong team, good weather, favorable paths).
2) giro for italians or vuelta for Spaniards ... I just think that the greatest GT guys should try the double because they can.
Clearly not the contador post ban, but I'm pretty sure that between 2008 and 2011 could have won with proper preparation and favorable paths. Same thing for froome. But as always you prefer to concentrate on the tour ''simply'' because the challenge is easier to win and the race is the most important.
3) landa, is true. for two seasons, he shows well competitive. In theory can actually succeed but has to win a GT before. And in this case too, the paths and everything else must be carefully evaluated.
 
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Re: Re:

Matteo. said:
Taxus4a said:
Matteo. said:
arvc40 said:
Froome must go for a Giro at some point, even if it means sacrificing a Tour. Realistic that he is probably the only man that could do Giro/Tour double.

Too old( and late) for giro-tour unfortunately . He would make the same mistake of 2015 contador.
This kind of challenge is to be done when you're at the top. Unfortunately both have missed the oppurtunity

Froome is at the top... Contador had no level to win the Tour after his santion, with Giro or without him.

The problem is not the Giro-Tour double, but the weather in May, but he can do it.

The problem is that the important race by far is le Tour.. Giro is for italians or for people not sure to win le Tour, or of your think is better for you to have the Giro before le Tour... Landa was at a very high level this year in both Giro and Tour showing a level to have won both races. (becouse Quintana wanst at his level in both of them, but anyway Giro is not a big problem for le Tour for some kind of riders)


When ever I said that it's best to do the Giro of the tour first.

Anyway, one step at a time.
1) froome is at the top. It may be but I do not see him as dominant as in 2013 or 2015 when he was at the top for me, and he should have tried the double.
Next season he goes for 33 years: young people are emerging (bartdet, aru, tom) and he does not seem to be dominated as he once did.
Trying to double (IPOTHETICALLY) in 2018 can be a suicide, I confirm that the right time is over. (I even think he can not win 2018 tour) . And I'm sorry because I'm sure he could do it with the right conditions (strong team, good weather, favorable paths).
2) giro for italians or vuelta for Spaniards ... I just think that the greatest GT guys should try the double because they can.
Clearly not the contador post ban, but I'm pretty sure that between 2008 and 2011 could have won with proper preparation and favorable paths. Same thing for froome. But as always you prefer to concentrate on the tour ''simply'' because the challenge is easier to win and the race is the most important.
3) landa, is true. for two seasons, he shows well competitive. In theory can actually succeed but has to win a GT before. And in this case too, the paths and everything else must be carefully evaluated.
Landa wasn't racing for gc since blockhaus, so he didn't have the pressure to be always well positioned, didn't have to go full gas in every mountain/flat stage.
 
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Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
portugal11 said:
Singer01 said:
Does anybody think that if Froome took his Tour form to the Giro, and his Vuelta form to the tour he wouldn't be favourite for both?
That isn't possible. Giro-tour is way harder than tour-vuelta
As shown by Quintana.
Not only quintana. Now there are little doubts how contador has better climbing ability, better recovery, better in time trials and the myth that quintana always gets stronger when miles increase and his recovery is the best since pantani, it is just bullsh##.
 
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Re: Re:

portugal11 said:
Singer01 said:
Does anybody think that if Froome took his Tour form to the Giro, and his Vuelta form to the tour he wouldn't be favourite for both?
That isn't possible. Giro-tour is way harder than tour-vuelta

I don't really buy that there is a big difference at all tbh. If anything the Tour Vuelta is harder in terms of recovery since there is less recovery time between the two.

I guess the main argument used in favour of the Giro/Tour is that the hardest GT comes 2nd but atm Froome is the only reason the Tour is hard for anyone. An Uran/Bardet podium is levels below this Vuelta.
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
portugal11 said:
Singer01 said:
Does anybody think that if Froome took his Tour form to the Giro, and his Vuelta form to the tour he wouldn't be favourite for both?
That isn't possible. Giro-tour is way harder than tour-vuelta

I don't really buy that there is a big difference at all tbh. If anything the Tour Vuelta is harder in terms of recovery since there is less recovery time between the two.

I guess the main argument used in favour of the Giro/Tour is that the hardest GT comes 2nd but atm Froome is the only reason the Tour is hard for anyone. An Uran/Bardet podium is levels below this Vuelta.

You're right, for the most part Froome is the reason why the tour is hard right now. But, Quintana would make the tour much harder for him. He wouldn't beat Quintana with his second GT form.
 
Re: Re:

Jspear said:
deValtos said:
portugal11 said:
Singer01 said:
Does anybody think that if Froome took his Tour form to the Giro, and his Vuelta form to the tour he wouldn't be favourite for both?
That isn't possible. Giro-tour is way harder than tour-vuelta

I don't really buy that there is a big difference at all tbh. If anything the Tour Vuelta is harder in terms of recovery since there is less recovery time between the two.

I guess the main argument used in favour of the Giro/Tour is that the hardest GT comes 2nd but atm Froome is the only reason the Tour is hard for anyone. An Uran/Bardet podium is levels below this Vuelta.

You're right, for the most part Froome is the reason why the tour is hard right now. But, Quintana would make the tour much harder for him. He wouldn't beat Quintana with his second GT form.
Heavily depends on the amount of TT kilometers. With this year's Tour parcourds - almost definetely NO.
 
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Almost 99% of the vuelta's riders have already a gt in their legs, so they aren't completly fresh. So it is easier to make a good result at vuelta when you make tour-vuelta. Who does giro-tour, always face rivals with fresh legs, so it is very hard to compete in the tour with tired legs against riders who prepared 8 months of his life only thinking on tour. To clarify: giro-tour (you face rivals with fresh legs and you go to the tour with tired legs against the best gt riders in the world with fresh legs). Tour-vuelta (you are fresh and you face the best gt riders with fresh legs. You go to vuelta and you face rivals with one gt already in their legs, so it is easier)
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
portugal11 said:
Singer01 said:
Does anybody think that if Froome took his Tour form to the Giro, and his Vuelta form to the tour he wouldn't be favourite for both?
That isn't possible. Giro-tour is way harder than tour-vuelta

I don't really buy that there is a big difference at all tbh. If anything the Tour Vuelta is harder in terms of recovery since there is less recovery time between the two.

I guess the main argument used in favour of the Giro/Tour is that the hardest GT comes 2nd but atm Froome is the only reason the Tour is hard for anyone. An Uran/Bardet podium is levels below this Vuelta.
The reason that a Giro/Tour double is harder than Tour/Vuelta is that with the former you're up against fresh riders in the second GT. Pretty much all big GC names will have a GT under their belt before starting the Vuelta so the field is more even there and the ones who are relatively fresher (i.e. coming from il Giro) are often 2nd rate contenders.

Edit: I see portugal11 posted more or less the same