Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[red_flanders]

Apparently he discovered these massive discrepancies in fit during this year's Tour. No mention of it during months of complaining later about his bike, the team, etc. Didn't seem noteworthy when discussing how his "saddle slipped" in the Route d'Occitaine. His list of reasons for not being selected doesn't include these "very big discrepancies" in fit. Odd. This article is from July 13, during the Tour. He must have discovered the discrepancies afterwards...but weird that he immediately noticed the saddle mis-fit, but not the overall "very big" problem with fit of the bike. So strange...

"The Mont Ventoux one-day classic didn't go well for me at all," he admitted. "I had a bit of a mechanical, I had something get stuck in my cranks right at the foot of Ventoux. I changed bikes, got onto a spare bike and for some reason the handlebar was completely bent so it must have got knocked by something on the roof of the car, so I had to change bikes again.

"I mean, first of all I'm not really a great one-day rider, I've never really had a top result in a one-day race so doing a few one-day races wasn't really ideal.

"I did also do Route d'Occitanie which had one big day of climbing and it was down to that one big day of climbing that I needed to show what I'd be capable of doing in the Tour de France but unfortunately I just felt completely locked up through my lower back.

"I could feel something wasn't right, I wasn't pushing right on the bike. Having finished the stage I asked Gary [Israel-Premier Tech mechanic Gary Blem] to check things on the bike and he saw straight away that my saddle set back had slipped. I was basically too stretched on the bike and not really pushing in the right position. That was frustrating because that was my only real chance to show myself before the Tour de France."

 

[SHAD0W93]

Reminds me of the 2013 Tour for Cav talking about in his book he felt like something was wrong with his bike but couldn’t figure it out, then towards the end found out one pedal was a slightly different length. At least there according to the book he and the mechanics were looking for the issue. Three years is a long, as f time.

 

[proffate]

I have been fitted a couple of times and leg length is a constant issue. But I will say one thing for sure that pro riders often have bizarre personal preferences and quirks. Everything from ultra long stems, tiny child like handlebars, and some of the most unconventional seat and seatpost setups know to man. And a dramatic change has happened w crank length . just guessing but when Froome was in form and going well, 175,172.5 were pretty common for tall people.. having know idea about Froome..I personally have had pain improvements from shorter crank arm length and I was very resistant because I had ideas about leverage that were let's say inaccurate.. Did I get night and day improvement? No.Seen a few pro bikes recently and the tip on the saddle is insane

It's almost like bike fit isn't that important and what's important is cardiovascular function...

And those crank arm lengths are still the standard for larger bike sizes, so I don't know what you're smoking. Having tried everything from 165 to 180mm, I can tell you that no change to crank arms (hell, no change to materials, period) can account for the difference between '23 Froome and '16 Froome.

Getting off topic here, but longer cranks do give you more "leverage" in that the peak force required during the pedal stroke is lower, for the same cadence and wattage. Simple math. If peak force is a limiting factor for you, longer cranks might help. The drawback is that it closes the hip angle. So if hip flexibility is your limiting factor (more likely) then a shorter crank could help.

 

[veganrob]

I'd imagine the amount of time off the bike recovering to walk again, then, I would assume he didn't begin riding again using his race position while still with a load of metal inside him, he might well have kind of stopped adjusting where he felt he was back to a race position he was familiar with. However, I'm not sure on the cockpit of the Factor, but I know for a fact when you measured off my Look 595 and transpose to my Specialzied Venge you're 30mm off when in the drops compared to the hoods and tops even though all measurements are correct. It's simply by how different each cockpit is. Even though the Top Tube is only 10mm different between frames, those two bikes are impossible to setup so your reach in the drops, hoods and tops match between bikes. The drops and hoods on the Specialzied are 30mm out whereas the tops are the same. Even KOP is quite different even though measurements translated.

It makes it even more of the utmost importance to get your fit dialed in after an accident. Froome is full of it. And you spout a bunch of hogwash. Get a professional fit!!!

 

[IndianCyclist]

So with this monumental reveal, what are the expectations. Stage win(WT/GT/Monument), Race win(WT Week race, GT, 5th)? I am still unmoved from option 2 even though Froome might be beating Pogi, Jonas and Remco...
in his dreams

 

[dazaau]

It's almost like bike fit isn't that important and what's important is cardiovascular function...

Finally someone lays down the facts.

 

[gillan1969]

lols....our hapless hero can't help but keep giving...as ever the devoted @samhocking here to try and help out. Can't wait until next season...I consider this payback for seasons 2011 - 2018

 

[tonymikejoe]

Hey everyone, let's not forget that post-crash Chris Froome enjoyed a season's (2020) racing on his perfect Sky/INEOS set-up.
What did he achieve?
Absolutely nothing.

 

[yaco]

Hey everyone, let's not forget that post-crash Chris Froome enjoyed a season's (2020) racing on his perfect Sky/INEOS set-up.
What did he achieve?
Absolutely nothing.

Actually, Froome showed good signs at the 2020 Vuelta - He then got the rod taken out of his leg and it went downhill.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Actually, Froome showed good signs at the 2020 Vuelta - He then got the rod taken out of his leg and it went downhill.

He managed zero stage top-50s and entered zero breakaways in that race. Not sure how that qualifies as 'good signs'.

 

[Netserk]

3rd on Alpe d'Huez has by far been his best performance since Dauphiné '19.

 

[Savant12]

3rd on Alpe d'Huez has by far been his best performance since Dauphiné '19.

I actually hoped that he's win the stage and announce his retirement after that Tour. But if he did win, then it might have given even more false belief that another Tour GC win was possible.

 

[Rackham]

3rd on Alpe d'Huez has by far been his best performance since Dauphiné '19.

From a breakaway which was handed the stage by the peloton. Reading it as "third on Alpe" doesn't really tell the full story, i.e. it's a bit like saying Javier Otxoa once 'beat' Lance Armstrong on Hautacam back in 2000 & using that to extrapolate a performance delta which paints a misleading picture.

As for Froome's saddle height issue... what I first viewed as a quasi funny quip to get the media off his back (some sort of last-ditch Hail Mary effort to concoct the 'least' ridiculous excuse for his hilariously poor form) seems to have gone viral & is now being spread around various cycling news outlets, like wielerflits as well.

I mean come on... this is just total bullsh*t on an epic scale. I think it's a step too far tbh, i.e. because it might have seemed like a good idea to get some sort of justification out on social media in order to explain why he's continuing to ride next season, it will make him look like an even bigger chancer when he inevitably finishes below 100th in Romandie or the Tour of the Alps, as per usual.

FYI in December 2022, Froome released a video on his youtube channel in which he detailed how he was working with his team on improving his ITT position for the upcoming season:

The (predictable) result of this 'ground-breaking' ride position was total irrelevancy in ITT's, also as per usual. I didn't think I'd ever be back in his thread typing out a long post regarding why Froome is full of sh*t but here I am. I guess history repeats itself.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

From a breakaway which was handed the stage by the peloton. Reading it as "third on Alpe" doesn't really tell the full story, i.e. it's a bit like saying Javier Otxoa once 'beat' Lance Armstrong on Hautacam back in 2000 & using that to extrapolate a performance delta which paints a misleading picture.

None of that changes the fact that it was froome best performance and result since Dauphine 2019. Nesterk didn't comment on how good it was relative to other riders.

 

[Froome]

It's not about getting the hard miles, now it's about getting the paycheck.

 

[Mayomaniac]

It's not about getting the hard miles, now it's about getting the paycheck.

Exactly, the Iron Extortionist is still in that 10k a day money

Seriously, 3cm is such a big difference in saddle height, an Amateur would probably notice It really fast.

 

[yaco]

He managed zero stage top-50s and entered zero breakaways in that race. Not sure how that qualifies as 'good signs'.

He was pacing in the mountains in at least two or three stages - He was OK at the 2020 Vuelta but it went downhill after that.

 

[Netserk]

He was pacing in the mountains in at least two or three stages - He was OK at the 2020 Vuelta but it went downhill after that.

He was better in the summer of 2022 than he was in 2020.

 

[rallybanana]

He was better in the summer of 2022 than he was in 2020.

Every even-numbered year he shows signs of improvement. Good omens for 2024.

 

[samhocking]

It makes it even more of the utmost importance to get your fit dialed in after an accident. Froome is full of it. And you spout a bunch of hogwash. Get a professional fit!!!

Not always possible these days, the cockpits are part of the bike setup.

 

[samhocking]

Uh huh. This defense doesn't address the claim.

The claim is pointedly NOT that he couldn't, after endless tweaking by some of the top mechanics in the world, and with any gear he needed available to him, match the fit of his Pinarello from Sky with the Factor. Not the claim. Nope. That would be comical as well, but it's not the claim.

The claim is, he recently "noticed some very big discrepancies" between his old bike and his new one. The implication is that now it's fixed. He found the problem and addressed it. If you buy that he didn't "notice some very big discrepancies" for 3 years, well...you've either never ridden a road bike for long distances, you're deeply gullible, you're not good at reading comprehension, or for some reason you are motivated to believe Froome and ignore logic.

The idea that mechanics on a professional team would not have an in-depth conversation with a brand new rider, the team's most public signing, about fit on a new bike, and start with the old bike, is quite simply delusional.

Never mind the further implication of his complaints, that somehow these discrepancies are a significant part of what's been wrong with his form?

It's quite a bit simpler than that. He's lying to you. He's trying to blame his lack of performance on...something...at the exact time when he's getting pressure from the press and ownership about his contract. He thinks this lie is good enough, and he knows some subset of delusional fans will lap it up just like they have every other bit of swill that's come out of his camp since fall of 2011.

If you believe him, you're the mark.

It's not a defence, I'm just saying bikes with integrated cockpits are often impossible to match to previous setups. His pinarello came with stems lengths and bars adjustable to within 5mm, the Factor simply doesn't and the geom is obviously fixed these days, no rider is fitted to a bike, the rider fits the bike, you have giant & Burrows to thank for that ; )

 

[red_flanders]

It's not a defence, I'm just saying bikes with integrated cockpits are often impossible to match to previous setups. His pinarello came with stems lengths and bars adjustable to within 5mm, the Factor simply doesn't and the geom is obviously fixed these days, no rider is fitted to a bike, the rider fits the bike, you have giant & Burrows to thank for that ; )

Ok, not a defense. Sure. Your...let's call it a response...didn't address his claim, as I outlined above.

Yes, I understand integrated cockpits. Factor's comes in 19 sizes, so there certainly is the ability to dial in fit.

The point is, that no top rider, coming into a new team isn't going to have a detailed fit discussion with the new performance team. Whatever compromises are still needed (usually quite minor) due to geometry are going to be discussed and acknowledged, not amazingly discovered while the rider is pointedly not riding during the Tour...3 years later.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

I‘ve read it here already, and I think I can confirm that sometimes, there are surprises when it comes to technical knowledge, within the teams.

I remember in 2004 or 2005, at Deutschland Tour, Jan Ullrich‘s mechanic (which was his brother, at this race) installed this super aero „Xentis“ front wheel the wrong way around, at Jan‘s TT bike.

Jan tightly did not win this Deutschland Tour, and few fans or journalists contacted Xentis, afterwards. The manufacturer then confirmed that the wrong fixing of their front wheel at Jan’s bike made the aerodynamic advantage an aerodynamic disadvantage. Watts transferred into times, Jan apparently lost this Deutschland Tour GC due to the fact that the mechanic fixed this wheel wrongly.

Nowadays, almost twenty years later, TdF bikes have become machines. No way being a mechanic without having fundamental technical knowledge.

In German federation BDR, in the 1980ies, when the Espoirs were at stage races abroad, one of their mechanics was well-known that he joined his boys with just a screwdriver with him. He had basic knowledge about mechanics, had his screwdriver, and spent many of the stage race evenings at the local red light districts… That‘s what he was famous for, after some time… (The Espoir riders used to call him „The horny grandpa [first name]“…)

 

[RedheadDane]

How do you install a wheel the wrong way around?
I don't suppose it got rotated by 90 degrees around a vertical axis, coz I think that would have been quite noticable! Though, it would definitely give you an aerodynamic disadvantage.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

How do you install a wheel the wrong way around?
I don't suppose it got rotated by 90 degrees around a vertical axis, coz I think that would have been quite noticable! Though, it would definitely give you an aerodynamic disadvantage.

I would have had difficulties to explain it, so I had a quick Google search. Here it is:

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