Chris Horner is overlooked

[Willy_Voet]

He bought some fruit of the loom at Wal Mart. Add that to your mounting evidence.

Okay, that is a 10.

 

[theyoungest]

Newsflash. The Americans don't do nearly enough to help each other out on the road while on other teams. Spanish rider do these things constantly.

At least the Spaniards try to make it a little less obvious.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I like Horner too. As far as being overlooked, that's probably because he's a little long in the tooth. I think if he's 5, 6 or 7 years younger and at the same level he would not be so overlooked.

 

[scribe]

At least the Spaniards try to make it a little less obvious.

Like when Armstrong snatched the spanish-connection water bottle away from Contador, tdf09? lol They complained about that one in the news.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Like when Armstrong snatched the spanish-connection water bottle away from Contador, tdf09? lol They complained about that one in the news.

I've seen Valverde and Evans share water bottles. I can think of many attempts when the Spanish connection has purportedly worked together on the bike, but sharing water is a bit of a tame one. Besides, Armstrong offered the water to Contador after he drank from it, and Contador refused it. Then Armstrong went to keep the water until Gutiérrez laid the smack down. Both Armstrong and Contador came out of that little episode looking like pathetic children.

 

[jsem94]

Horner shoulda been higher placed in tour, but he was being lances slave...

 

[patrick767]

Oh come on, I like Horner and he had a fantastic TdF this year, but it's very likely to be the high point of his obviously winding down career. He did not lose out by helping Armstrong. As has been pointed out, he gained ten minutes by going in a break meant to give Armstrong a shot at a stage win. Good for Horner on the top ten finish, but let's be realistic.

 

[PotentialPro]

so you think horner had a gun to his head when he joined the shack? horner is old, injury prone and a domestique.

erader

Perhaps based on this introspection, he decided that the Shack was a good potential payday in 2010, with bonuses from the bigger races. After all he does have some mouths to feed, and a nice payday for 2010 would go a long way for that.

 

[Altitude]

He's overlooked because he says things like "My targets are to have a good Dauphine Libere and to make the Tour squad." Make the Tour squad. Not win the Tour, not make the podium, but simply ride the race. How could you take him as your team leader?

 

[NashbarShorts]

He's overlooked because he says things like "My targets are to have a good Dauphine Libere and to make the Tour squad." Make the Tour squad. Not win the Tour, not make the podium, but simply ride the race. How could you take him as your team leader?

Duh. Maybe that is b/c he was left OFF the Tour squad last year, simply b/c Astana bigwigs insisted Bruyneel take a Borat-clone over Horner.

As for rider's trying to "make" their teams Tour selection, unless you are Lance Armstrong or a very select few team captains, that is EVERYONE's objective. Nicholas Roche all spring was talking of his hopes to make the Tour squad. He got in and was Top 15.

So back to your point, you're basically saying JBruyneel can't name Horner as a leader b/c Horner lacks the intestinal fortitude?? The other riders wouldn't see him as a leader??? Next.

 

[Altitude]

So back to your point, you're basically saying JBruyneel can't name Horner as a leader b/c Horner lacks the intestinal fortitude?? The other riders wouldn't see him as a leader??? Next.

Pretty much

 

[NashbarShorts]

Pretty much

Wow, gotta disagree. He's totally selfless and still outperforms the bigshots most of the time. Spanks Valverde on his home turf in the Tour of the Basque Country while riding w/ no real support...

We'll have to agree to disagree!
(But thanks for the humor. The idea that Levi is more of a "leader who inspires other men" is side-splittingly funny )

 

[Oldman]

Wow, gotta disagree. He's totally selfless and still outperforms the bigshots most of the time. Spanks Valverde on his home turf in the Tour of the Basque Country while riding w/ no real support...

We'll have to agree to disagree!
(But thanks for the humor. The idea that Levi is more of a "leader who inspires other men" is side-splittingly funny )

Unfortunately everyone on that team drank the Kool-aid. As long as the paychecks keep coming in they probably are afraid to think or say anything right now.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Wow, gotta disagree. He's totally selfless and still outperforms the bigshots most of the time. Spanks Valverde on his home turf in the Tour of the Basque Country while riding w/ no real support...

congratulations, you just made an enemy of a large minority in Spain. Plus I'd hardly say he 'spanked' Valverde. Beat him pretty nicely in the TT, but that's all. His was the decisive attack on the way to Eibar, but Valverde still beat him home. He did a very good job of knowing the attacks to follow and making his own though, raced a very smart race and it was a good win.

But the Euskal Herriko Itzulia is only 6 days. And in the Tour, Horner wouldn't have been any higher had he not been looking after Lance, most likely. Not MUCH higher anyway. He lost several minutes looking after Lance in stage 8, then got them back again in stage 16 in the breakaway - a break he'd never have been allowed to get in had he not been that extra few minutes behind.

Horner's a good rider. A very good rider in fact. He might be able to duplicate a lower-end top 10 at the Tour (I'm not so sure about the Giro, Vuelta it depends on the route and the field, but probably), but I don't think he'd top 5 it unless something really freaky happened or he juiced to the moon. And with the mileage on the clock he has, teams are never going to give him more than a year's contract, or be keen to throw their whole weight behind him because a) he's not an investment for the future, and b) they'll always be concerned about him blowing up and not having it. This is a problem for him and that's a shame, but it's something he'd face wherever he goes. The likes of Brajkovic and Machado can be investments for the future; Horner could co-lead with them, but it would be hard to justify making him the outright leader over them.

 

[theyoungest]

Haha, Valverde's home turf. Yeah, that's a good one.

 

[The Hitch]

congratulations, you just made an enemy of a large minority in Spain. Plus I'd hardly say he 'spanked' Valverde. Beat him pretty nicely in the TT, but that's all. His was the decisive attack on the way to Eibar, but Valverde still beat him home. He did a very good job of knowing the attacks to follow and making his own though, raced a very smart race and it was a good win.

But the Euskal Herriko Itzulia is only 6 days. And in the Tour, Horner wouldn't have been any higher had he not been looking after Lance, most likely. Not MUCH higher anyway. He lost several minutes looking after Lance in stage 8, then got them back again in stage 16 in the breakaway - a break he'd never have been allowed to get in had he not been that extra few minutes behind.

Horner's a good rider. A very good rider in fact. He might be able to duplicate a lower-end top 10 at the Tour (I'm not so sure about the Giro, Vuelta it depends on the route and the field, but probably), but I don't think he'd top 5 it unless something really freaky happened or he juiced to the moon. And with the mileage on the clock he has, teams are never going to give him more than a year's contract, or be keen to throw their whole weight behind him because a) he's not an investment for the future, and b) they'll always be concerned about him blowing up and not having it. This is a problem for him and that's a shame, but it's something he'd face wherever he goes. The likes of Brajkovic and Machado can be investments for the future; Horner could co-lead with them, but it would be hard to justify making him the outright leader over them.

+ there were no time bonuses. THis was one of the very few stage races which didnt have time bonuses. Remember, Valverde beat, Freire, yes Freire, one of the best all time spritners, in 2 flat stage bunch sprints in the first 2 days. He then finished above Horner in every stage, 2nd to Horners 4th on the queen stage, 3rd to Horners 4th the next day, before losing 8 seconds on the tt.

take the bonuses and thats 10 + 10 + 6 + 4 = 20 seconds for Valverde going into the TT. If that was the case, we would be talking about Horner getting within 5 seconds at one point but in the end losing out fair and square.

In the end it doesnt really matter because Horner would have got the race after Valverdes DQ anyway, so im glad Horner had his moment, but I bare in mind that while Horner was soft pedaling the first days, Valverde was taking on the great one in bunch sprints, before moving on to the mountain duels and finishing above Horner every time, there as well.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

While the lack of sprint bonuses is a good point (though Catalunya and Burgos don't offer them either), I will point out that Valverde didn't actually beat Freire twice - he beat him once (stage 2, slightly uphill, fair fight between both of them on territory that suited both) and came 2nd once (stage 1, flat finish, Freire originally won but was DQed for a changing line. It seemed a fairly dubious DQ - until I saw the Julien Simon DQ at the Volta. Ugh, the judges handed Cândido one on a plate there!). On the other hand, it was Valverde's constant attacking that forced the selection on stage 1.

 

[The Hitch]

While the lack of sprint bonuses is a good point (though Catalunya and Burgos don't offer them either), I will point out that Valverde didn't actually beat Freire twice - he beat him once (stage 2, slightly uphill, fair fight between both of them on territory that suited both) and came 2nd once (stage 1, flat finish, Freire originally won but was DQed for a changing line. It seemed a fairly dubious DQ - until I saw the Julien Simon DQ at the Volta. Ugh, the judges handed Cândido one on a plate there!). On the other hand, it was Valverde's constant attacking that forced the selection on stage 1.

I know it was unfair for Valverde to get both stages seeing as Freires dq seemed remarkably similar to Valverdes non dq. But since they gave him 2 stages and it suits my argument to say he won both then i say he won both stages.