Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Rackham]

If we're speculating here I'll say the mental side would be my guess regarding where the problem is. This is a rider who had a public feud with his former team over their 'lack of professionalism' and he forced a transfer to the best-of-the-best scientific team with all their hoopla about their data and nutrition etc. aka Visma.

So... 2+2 = a rider who didn't make the step up he probably anticipated in his new team and is looking for any 'grain de sable' anywhere (hidden health reason, ride position, whatever) that might explain why his expected gains haven't materialized.

I think back to Catalunya last year where he had joint leadership with Kuss but he got actually dropped by Kruijswijk, i.e. and then he pretty much rage quit the next day.

 

[LongtimeLurker]

When your coach gives you 4 hours and you think you need more so turn your garmin off and do 6 hours (to name 1 of a few "problems") Also leads to problems on the bike.
Coach wasnt good enough last season
Some other staff
changed for the new season and the result is the same it seems

 

[Samamba]

If we're speculating here I'll say the mental side would be my guess regarding where the problem is. This is a rider who had a public feud with his former team over their 'lack of professionalism' and he forced a transfer to the best-of-the-best scientific team with all their hoopla about their data and nutrition etc. aka Visma.

So... 2+2 = a rider who didn't make the step up he probably anticipated in his new team and is looking for any 'grain de sable' anywhere (hidden health reason, ride position, whatever) that might explain why his expected gains haven't materialized.

I think back to Catalunya last year where he had joint leadership with Kuss but he got actually dropped by Kruijswijk, i.e. and then he pretty much rage quit the next day.

You don't lose feeling in one leg due to mental issues. It could intensify symptoms, but it is in 99.9% of cases not the root of the problem. I don't like the kid at all, but I don't get why people keep pretending like he's making that stuff up. It's serious stuff.

 

[Rackham]

You don't lose feeling in one leg due to mental issues. It could intensify symptoms, but it is in 99.9% of cases not the root of the problem. I don't like the kid at all, but I don't get why people keep pretending like he's making that stuff up. It's serious stuff.

Likewise, being dismissive of the possibility it's a mental problem isn't exactly backed up by hard data either, is it? It's just people choosing what they want to believe. Especially because in this instance there's been no specific reason given from a medical standpoint regarding 'why' he's not where he wants to be.

I mean look, I don't mean to be uncharitable here but absolutely every rider who gets dropped has some sort of 'pain' in his body or something unresponsive, either somewhere specific or all over.

 

[Samamba]

Likewise, being dismissive of the possibility it's a mental problem isn't exactly backed up by hard data either, is it? It's just people choosing what they want to believe. Especially because in this instance there's been no specific reason given from a medical standpoint regarding 'why' he's not where he wants to be.

I mean look, I don't mean to be uncharitable here but absolutely every rider who gets dropped has some sort of 'pain' in his body or something unresponsive, either somewhere specific or all over.

You're talking to someone who has seen over 30 specialists in all sorts of medical fields in the last 10 years regarding similar problems. I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with his mental, I'm saying it will very highly likely not be the root cause of his leg problem. I'm not sure why you're ignoring his description of his symptoms. No it isn't similar to other riders pain feelings when they get dropped. Now, if he had problems in both legs, arms, all over his body, we would have a different discussion but that's not the case.

There has been given specific reasons btw, you're just ignoring them cause they haven't been solved completely. It isn't always that easy or straightforward.

 

[AlfaLum]

Any chance they have already found the problem, but they havent fixed it?

 

[Bertram Wooster]

There was a football player for Anderlecht who had very similar problems.

Visma already checked if Cian's problems had the same cause, but it had to be something else.

 

[theyoungest]

If we're speculating here I'll say the mental side would be my guess regarding where the problem is. This is a rider who had a public feud with his former team over their 'lack of professionalism' and he forced a transfer to the best-of-the-best scientific team with all their hoopla about their data and nutrition etc. aka Visma.

So... 2+2 = a rider who didn't make the step up he probably anticipated in his new team and is looking for any 'grain de sable' anywhere (hidden health reason, ride position, whatever) that might explain why his expected gains haven't materialized.

I think back to Catalunya last year where he had joint leadership with Kuss but he got actually dropped by Kruijswijk, i.e. and then he pretty much rage quit the next day.

Try to separate this from the fact that he dared to betray Red Bull-Hansgrohe, the team that is now the greatest in the world because they freed Primoz Roglic from the shackles of Visma. This is a guy who is obviously dealing with some kind of physical issue that can't be explained away with "you just have to try a little harder".

Of course when he feels the body isn't cooperating the mental side starts to play up as well, but it's a bit too easy to blame this all on a mental problem. It's not about gains that haven't materialized. He's become much worse than he was two years ago. Not everything is about the mind, if that were true pretty much everyone could be a top level athlete, you just have to want it.

 

[stekelegel]

A single simple physical issue would and should probably have been found now. This is a guy that has been racing at 150 % very early , got a few good results (not exceptional) and was expected to step up even more. And it is not happening. Might be one of those that peaked early and never gets the level of that 1 wonder year back. Should refocus on becoming healthy again and maybe lower ambitions.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

A single simple physical issue would and should probably have been found now. This is a guy that has been racing at 150 % very early , got a few good results (not exceptional) and was expected to step up even more. And it is not happening. Might be one of those that peaked early and never gets the level of that 1 wonder year back. Should refocus on becoming healthy again and maybe lower ambitions.

lol
this dude was younger than Pogacar when he won Avenir. And he was younger than Pogacar when he finished his first WT stagerace in the top 10 (actually he finished 3 of them, Romandie, Suisse and Catalunya in the top 10 earlier than Pogacar finished 6th in Itzulia) but nothing exceptional. Nah, this is the norm. Being better at a younger age than Pogacar is what we should come to expect. If you can't do that, then find another hobby.

Also waiting for "not living up to expectations" to become a medically acknowledged condition.

Hey, hey, hey, hey... smoke weed everyday.

 

[Gargamel35]

Bora dodged a bullet with this one.

 

[Netserk]

lol
this dude was younger than Pogacar when he won Avenir. And he was younger than Pogacar when he finished his first WT stagerace in the top 10 (actually he finished 3 of them, Romandie, Suisse and Catalunya in the top 10 earlier than Pogacar finished 6th in Itzulia) but nothing exceptional. Nah, this is the norm. Being better at a younger age than Pogacar is what we should come to expect. If you can't do that, then find another hobby.

Also waiting for "not living up to expectations" to become a medically acknowledged condition.

Hey, hey, hey, hey... smoke weed everyday.

Very young age is overrated.

 

[stekelegel]

Very young age is overrated.

lol
this dude was younger than Pogacar when he won Avenir. And he was younger than Pogacar when he finished his first WT stagerace in the top 10 (actually he finished 3 of them, Romandie, Suisse and Catalunya in the top 10 earlier than Pogacar finished 6th in Itzulia) but nothing exceptional. Nah, this is the norm. Being better at a younger age than Pogacar is what we should come to expect. If you can't do that, then find another hobby.

Also waiting for "not living up to expectations" to become a medically acknowledged condition.

Hey, hey, hey, hey... smoke weed everyday.

A few weeks ago there was big discussion on age groups in football teams. An interesting fact was that people can differ 3-4 years in development. Thats why you get so many riders winning Avenir and then doing nothing as a pro. So peaking early can mean a lot or nothing at the same time.
Another fact: Wuyts mentionned in his column today that people allready said in 2023 that he was way overrated.
On the other side: i cant imagine that Visma didnt do some tests before going to that transfer hassle. So there must be something there.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The power of being belgian. Cian was probably living and riding like a pro since he was a teen and now he can't improve anymore. Such a cliché nowadays but people still talk about him because he is belgian. In fact, this thread has more pages than Ayuso's thread or Pidcock's thread.

 

[Berniece]

The power of being belgian. Cian was probably living and riding like a pro since he was a teen and now he can't improve anymore. Such a cliché nowadays but people still talk about him because he is belgian. In fact, this thread has more pages than Ayuso's thread or Pidcock's thread.

You are completely ignoring everything that has been said about this case and just spinning your own story around it.

 

[Lexman]

A few weeks ago there was big discussion on age groups in football teams. An interesting fact was that people can differ 3-4 years in development. Thats why you get so many riders winning Avenir and then doing nothing as a pro. So peaking early can mean a lot or nothing at the same time.
Another fact: Wuyts mentionned in his column today that people allready said in 2023 that he was way overrated.
On the other side: i cant imagine that Visma didnt do some tests before going to that transfer hassle. So there must be something there.

As a amtter of fact Wuyts said that observers already mentioned in 2023 that Cian's 8th place will be his highest ever on GC in a GT

anyways it's sad to see this keeps on and on, incredible that his team doesn't get a defintive medical conclusion

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

A few weeks ago there was big discussion on age groups in football teams. An interesting fact was that people can differ 3-4 years in development. Thats why you get so many riders winning Avenir and then doing nothing as a pro. So peaking early can mean a lot or nothing at the same time.
Another fact: Wuyts mentionned in his column today that people allready said in 2023 that he was way overrated.
On the other side: i cant imagine that Visma didnt do some tests before going to that transfer hassle. So there must be something there.

My point was that you said his 1st year at the pros was nothing exceptional, which is complete BS. Top 10 in 3 major WT stage races and also in the Vuelta. Whether he is overrated or an early bloomer has little to do with that.

As for him being overrated, that depends on how you (or people) rated him to begin with. He was hyped by his former junior manager as "better than Evenepoel" which is something i have always said was complete BS. His last decent TT has been 4 years ago and he has zero punch. On top of that, his style is more akin to that of Mollema than anything else, hardly aerodynamic which basically means little chance of doing Evenepoel/Pogacar style long solo attacks. Even if he is the best in a race, he simply lacks the tools to finish it off. On the other hand, saying his first GT result will be the best he will ever do, when he was only 20, can hardly be taken seriously. If that turns out to be true, then a prediction like that is more based on luck than on insight.

The power of being belgian. Cian was probably living and riding like a pro since he was a teen and now he can't improve anymore. Such a cliché nowadays but people still talk about him because he is belgian. In fact, this thread has more pages than Ayuso's thread or Pidcock's thread.

Because Pidcock was not overrated and overhyped? Dude is older than Evenepoel and only a year younger than Pogacar. He was going to win the TDF (this was not some fan's wetdream but actual prognosis by him and his coach). What has he shown so far?

Half of the pages in this thread are a result of the drama (and subsequent vitriol) after him leaving Bora.

You also keep regurgitating your own not-so-expert opinion. Uijtdebroeks' problem isn't that he can not improve anymore, it is that he has REGRESSED immensely. Once you understand this maybe you will start to realize that there is in fact a medical problem. Other than that, you are correct that Belgians are simply more interesting to talk about. This goes without saying.

 

[rghysens]

On the other hand, saying his first GT result will be the best he will ever do, when he was only 20, can hardly be taken seriously. If that turns out to be true, than a prediction like that is more based on luck than on insight.

If I´m not mistaken, Wuyts claimed it was someone from the Bora staff who said this (in the last episode of the Wuyts&Vlaeminck podcast). We don´t know what they know. Maybe it is based on insight.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If I´m not mistaken, Wuyts claimed it was someone from the Bora staff who said this (in the last episode of the Wuyts&Vlaeminck podcast). We don´t know what they know. Maybe it is based on insight.

Then why on earth didn't they simply let him go? They should have been happy not only to get rid of him, but also pull one over on Visma.

 

[Samamba]

The power of being belgian. Cian was probably living and riding like a pro since he was a teen and now he can't improve anymore. Such a cliché nowadays but people still talk about him because he is belgian. In fact, this thread has more pages than Ayuso's thread or Pidcock's thread.

Yeah let's ignore that more than 50% of this thread is just ranting about his Bora - Visma move. Obviously not even close to comparable. Also it is not just the Belgians keeping this thread alive. It goes both ways. He is a controversial figure because of his past antics, his critics fill this thread up too, you're probably one of them... Me too kinda.

I agree that him being hyped from a very young age is partly because he's Belgian, but the fact that there have been so many posts in this thread is not because of that

If I´m not mistaken, Wuyts claimed it was someone from the Bora staff who said this (in the last episode of the Wuyts&Vlaeminck podcast). We don´t know what they know. Maybe it is based on insight.

Lol, then why did they want to keep him so bad? Does not make sense.

 

[Netserk]

My point was that you said his 1st year at the pros was nothing exceptional, which is complete BS. Top 10 in 3 major WT stage races and also in the Vuelta. Whether he is overrated or an early bloomer has little to do with that.

I don't see where he said that. Should be easy to quote.

He also did not top-10 3 WT stage races in his 1st year at the pros. He debuted on the WT in 2022, riding Amstel as his first WT race.

 

[Red Rick]

Then why on earth didn't they simply let him go? They should have been happy not only to get rid of him, but also pull one over on Visma.

Because he was on tiny wages and getting top 10s in WT stage races in GTs? Overrated is a relative term. It didn't mean he was worthless.

 

[Samamba]

Because he was on tiny wages and getting top 10s in WT stage races in GTs? Overrated is a relative term. It didn't mean he was worthless.

They had offered him a new contract multiple times, he was going to be significantly more expensive. Unless Bora knew something about possible medical issues that would prevent him from performing in the future, stating that 8th place would be his best result ever is just weird. Overrated I'm fine with honestly, I thought that too, but that Wuyts thing is just a weird thing to say.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Because he was on tiny wages and getting top 10s in WT stage races in GTs? Overrated is a relative term. It didn't mean he was worthless.

But supposedly they knew he already peaked and that a decline was coming...

 

[Berniece]

But supposedly they knew he already peaked and that a decline was coming...

The decline of a 20 year old, as if they are Chinese gymnasts