Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Berniece]

No Coppi e Bartali for him. It makes sense, better to find out what is wrong with him instead of just riding and not being able to perform to your standards.

Cian Uijtdebroeks past na opgave in Tirreno voor Internationale Wielerweek Coppi e Bartali | sporza

De Nederlandse wielerploeg Visma- Lease a Bike laat weten dat Cian Uijtdebroeks deze week niet koerst in de Internationale Wielerweek Coppi e Bartali. Geen verrassing, de 22-jarige klimmer zag eerder deze maand flink af in Tirreno-Adriatico.

sporza.be

 

[AmRacer]

No Coppi e Bartali for him. It makes sense, better to find out what is wrong with him instead of just riding and not being able to perform to your standards.

Cian Uijtdebroeks past na opgave in Tirreno voor Internationale Wielerweek Coppi e Bartali | sporza

De Nederlandse wielerploeg Visma- Lease a Bike laat weten dat Cian Uijtdebroeks deze week niet koerst in de Internationale Wielerweek Coppi e Bartali. Geen verrassing, de 22-jarige klimmer zag eerder deze maand flink af in Tirreno-Adriatico.

sporza.be

95 percent of the peloton should stay home then. 🤔

 

[kingjr]

I remember listening to interviews with back in his junior days and I loved his enthusiasm for the sport, hate to see this happening to him.

 

[Berniece]

95 percent of the peloton should stay home then. 🤔

How do you mean? Does 95% of the peloton not perform towards their own standards?

 

[Andre]

I'm with Boonen on this, still hopeful.

 

[Rackham]

How do you mean? Does 95% of the peloton not perform towards their own standards?

It's difficult to put an exact percentage on it but in principle I agree entirely with the notion whereby the vast majority of riders aren't at their 'premium' when competing. I'm not just talking about racing some races with the aim of peaking for later objectives or riding to find form, I mean most riders have a myriad of niggles like colds, flus, pains, aches, issues, everything else and more.

If riders stayed home when not feeling like they're at their "own standards"... then yeah, the peloton would be a pretty empty thing.

 

[Berniece]

It's difficult to put an exact percentage on it but in principle I agree entirely with the notion whereby the vast majority of riders aren't at their 'premium' when competing. I'm not just talking about racing some races with the aim of peaking for later objectives or riding to find form, I mean most riders have a myriad of niggles like colds, flus, pains, aches, issues, everything else and more.

If riders stayed home when not feeling like they're at their "own standards"... then yeah, the peloton would be a pretty empty thing.

I didn't mean it like that. Performing towards your standards doesn't necessarily mean at your best, more like at what's normal behaviour in that moment of the season. There's something clearly wrong with Uijtdebroeks since he can't push harder and his heart rate stays at 150. No reason to ride races when you have no clue what's wrong, right? Might jeopardise the rest of the season.

 

[Red Rick]

He's been dealing with an issue that after 6 months or so still has not been figured out. I am not very optimistic for him.

 

[Jan the Man]

He's been dealing with an issue that after 6 months or so still has not been figured out. I am not very optimistic for him.

Hopefully they find out the underlying issue whatever it is.

As a general point I agree with what has been generally said in the thread that different people peak and reach their ceilings at different times and with added professioanlism over past decade there is no doubt people are peaking earlier/entering the pros at a higher level.

Whether 2023 was Cian’s ceiling only time will tell. However he clearly should not have regressed from there where he was competitive in top 10s for world tour stage races, so hopefully they find the underlying issues and he can have his best shot at finding his level.

 

[theyoungest]

I didn't mean it like that. Performing towards your standards doesn't necessarily mean at your best, more like at what's normal behaviour in that moment of the season. There's something clearly wrong with Uijtdebroeks since he can't push harder and his heart rate stays at 150. No reason to ride races when you have no clue what's wrong, right? Might jeopardise the rest of the season.

Never mind, some people hate Uijtdebroeks just because he had the audacity to leave Bora. Everyone else knows he's just a nice guy with a lot of enthusiasm for the sport who doesn't deserve to be struggling like he is now. Clearly something is physically wrong and they have to find out what it is. He's not just stalled, he's regressed massively and that's not normal for a guy barely in his twenties.

 

[Rackham]

Never mind, some people hate Uijtdebroeks just because he had the audacity to leave Bora. Everyone else knows he's just a nice guy with a lot of enthusiasm for the sport who doesn't deserve to be struggling like he is now. Clearly something is physically wrong and they have to find out what it is. He's not just stalled, he's regressed massively and that's not normal for a guy barely in his twenties.

In sport it's actually really normal. More normal than you might think.

Forget Bora or whatever other 'deep' reason you seem to assign his 'haters' (aka an emotional negative label which doesn't exactly reflect the tenor of the conversation here) and what we're left with is a borderline stereotypical case of a young athlete who broke through early in the sport and is struggling to live up to the expectations he had of himself. Nothing more.

It happens in cycling, tennis, football, you name it. And what Uijtdebroeks is experiencing might not uniquely be seen as a 'regression', i.e. it could also be seen as a form of plateauing whereby the level he was at 2 years ago isn't so far removed from his current level (he did finish 5th in the recent Tour of Oman, FWIW, whereas he was 9th in the same race with Bora in 2023).

He simply isn't making the gains he wanted or expected at Visma and that could be eating away at him mentally. So when the racing gets tough, boom, he explodes in his head.

We've seen it all before.

 

[Red Rick]

Hopefully they find out the underlying issue whatever it is.

As a general point I agree with what has been generally said in the thread that different people peak and reach their ceilings at different times and with added professioanlism over past decade there is no doubt people are peaking earlier/entering the pros at a higher level.

Whether 2023 was Cian’s ceiling only time will tell. However he clearly should not have regressed from there where he was competitive in top 10s for world tour stage races, so hopefully they find the underlying issues and he can have his best shot at finding his level.

This isn't really about ceiling, this is about regressing massively to basically barely WT domestique level.

It's not really about riders peaking earlier, other than the idea that reaching Vuelta top 10 at like 20 being a sign of future GT wins or whatever.

For me the red flag on his potential is simply how limited he is as a rider and how his weakness on more explosive climbs or stages just indicates a less than world class VO2 max which just puts a very hard cap on your ceiling.

 

[Berniece]

What we're left with is a borderline stereotypical case of a young athlete who broke through early in the sport and is struggling to live up to the expectations he had of himself. Nothing more.

It happens in cycling, tennis, football, you name it. And what Uijtdebroeks is experiencing might not uniquely be seen as a 'regression', i.e. it could also be seen as a form of plateauing whereby the level he was at 2 years ago isn't so far removed from his current level (he did finish 5th in the recent Tour of Oman, FWIW, whereas he was 9th in the same race with Bora in 2023).

He simply isn't making the gains he wanted or expected at Visma and that could be eating away at him mentally. So when the racing gets tough, boom, he explodes in his head.

His heart rate is 150, and he can't push more power. What does that tell you? That he physically reached a plateau OR that something is wrong?

 

[tobydawq]

95 percent of the peloton should stay home then. 🤔

Why?

 

[AmRacer]

Why?

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[Berflamand]

In sport it's actually really normal. More normal than you might think.

Forget Bora or whatever other 'deep' reason you seem to assign his 'haters' (aka an emotional negative label which doesn't exactly reflect the tenor of the conversation here) and what we're left with is a borderline stereotypical case of a young athlete who broke through early in the sport and is struggling to live up to the expectations he had of himself. Nothing more.

It happens in cycling, tennis, football, you name it. And what Uijtdebroeks is experiencing might not uniquely be seen as a 'regression', i.e. it could also be seen as a form of plateauing whereby the level he was at 2 years ago isn't so far removed from his current level (he did finish 5th in the recent Tour of Oman, FWIW, whereas he was 9th in the same race with Bora in 2023).

He simply isn't making the gains he wanted or expected at Visma and that could be eating away at him mentally. So when the racing gets tough, boom, he explodes in his head.

We've seen it all before.

When people are saying something is clearly wrong, nobody is talking about his level in the recent Tour of Oman. In fact, Cian himself was really happy with his performance there because at that point it looked like his problems were actually solved. At that moment you could (and many posters actually did) argue that he had stalled and wasn't making any gains because it wasn't exactly better than what he had shown before. That would be fair.

But it's clear something bothered him again at Tirreno-Adriatico where he was 46th at the MTF and couldn't even follow the peloton anymore the day after. It's very convenient to ignore this and to completely disregard his own statements concerning the feeling in his legs and his heartrate. I guess after the Bora debacle you just choose to not believe anything he says anymore.

Maybe it is possible there is a mental aspect to it that is (partly) the reason for the problems or enhances the problems but I really can't understand how you can be so confident in stating that this is normal and there's nothing more to it when all indications point to the contrary.

 

[Jan the Man]

This isn't really about ceiling, this is about regressing massively to basically barely WT domestique level.

It's not really about riders peaking earlier, other than the idea that reaching Vuelta top 10 at like 20 being a sign of future GT wins or whatever.

For me the red flag on his potential is simply how limited he is as a rider and how his weakness on more explosive climbs or stages just indicates a less than world class VO2 max which just puts a very hard cap on your ceiling.

Oh i agree that there is something at play causing regression - he is at least capable of performances shown in 2023 and now he can’t reach anywhere near that level. Hopefully he can sort his issues and we can see where his career takes him and whether he can improve further or whether his ceiling was 2023 (i guess that was the point i was trying to make clumsily)

 

[Rackham]

His heart rate is 150, and he can't push more power. What does that tell you? That he physically reached a plateau OR that something is wrong?

Sport performance isn't an exact science.

When people are saying something is clearly wrong, nobody is talking about his level in the recent Tour of Oman. In fact, Cian himself was really happy with his performance there because at that point it looked like his problems were actually solved. At that moment you could (and many posters actually did) argue that he had stalled and wasn't making any gains because it wasn't exactly better than what he had shown before. That would be fair.

But it's clear something bothered him again at Tirreno-Adriatico where he was 46th at the MTF and couldn't even follow the peloton anymore the day after. It's very convenient to ignore this and to completely disregard his own statements concerning the feeling in his legs and his heartrate. I guess after the Bora debacle you just choose to not believe anything he says anymore.

Maybe it is possible there is a mental aspect to it that is (partly) the reason for the problems or enhances the problems but I really can't understand how you can be so confident in stating that this is normal and there's nothing more to it when all indications point to the contrary.

It seems to me like there's been of a lot of procrastination, hand-wringing and introspection surrounding a rider who finished 8th in the Vuelta two years ago.

I mean I'm fine with all sorts of reasons given regarding 'why' riders aren't reaching a certain level but it's not like we're talking about a GT podium contender who's fallen off a cliff here.

I mean even if that was the case, would it be so unusual? I bet Hugh Carthy for example often wonders 'why' he just can't follow the best anymore. That's just one name off the top of my head, i.e. this sport is littered with the names of riders who came, saw, maybe conquered or not... and then struggled for xyz reasons.

Some of those reasons are physical and yes, some are also mental.

 

[Berflamand]

Sport performance isn't an exact science.



It seems to me like there's been of a lot of procrastination, hand-wringing and introspection surrounding a rider who finished 8th in the Vuelta two years ago.

I mean I'm fine with all sorts of reasons given regarding 'why' riders aren't reaching a certain level but it's not like we're talking about a GT podium contender who's fallen off a cliff here.

I mean even if that was the case, would it be so unusual? I bet Hugh Carthy for example often wonders 'why' he just can't follow the best anymore. That's just one name off the top of my head, i.e. this sport is littered with the names of riders who came, saw, maybe conquered or not... and then struggled for xyz reasons.

Some of those reasons are physical and yes, some are also mental.

If you're fine with all sorts of reasons given regarding why riders aren't reaching a certain level then why do you keep insisting that it is merely a mental problem of struggling to live up to the expectations he had of himself?

You can at least admit that it is possible there is an underlying physical problem even if you don't agree it is the most likely explanation?

 

[theyoungest]

In sport it's actually really normal. More normal than you might think.

Forget Bora or whatever other 'deep' reason you seem to assign his 'haters' (aka an emotional negative label which doesn't exactly reflect the tenor of the conversation here) and what we're left with is a borderline stereotypical case of a young athlete who broke through early in the sport and is struggling to live up to the expectations he had of himself. Nothing more.

It happens in cycling, tennis, football, you name it. And what Uijtdebroeks is experiencing might not uniquely be seen as a 'regression', i.e. it could also be seen as a form of plateauing whereby the level he was at 2 years ago isn't so far removed from his current level (he did finish 5th in the recent Tour of Oman, FWIW, whereas he was 9th in the same race with Bora in 2023).

He simply isn't making the gains he wanted or expected at Visma and that could be eating away at him mentally. So when the racing gets tough, boom, he explodes in his head.

We've seen it all before.

It's clear you think that it's all in his head. And like a conspiracy theory, that's pretty difficult to disprove. I find it quite hard to believe though that when you finished top-10 in a grand tour less than two years ago, now all of a sudden your maximum level is 46th on an uphill finish in Tirreno. Because (and I don't know how many times we have to say this) it's not about improving, it's about getting to the level he used to have! And right now he's not even close.

That there were flashes of hope for him in the Tour of Oman doesn't mean that if the problem flares up again it has to be some kind of mental issue.

 

[AmRacer]

It's clear you think that it's all in his head. And like a conspiracy theory, that's pretty difficult to disprove. I find it quite hard to believe though that when you finished top-10 in a grand tour less than two years ago, now all of a sudden your maximum level is 46th on an uphill finish in Tirreno. Because (and I don't know how many times we have to say this) it's not about improving, it's about getting to the level he used to have! And right now he's not even close.

That there were flashes of hope for him in the Tour of Oman doesn't mean that if the problem flares up again it has to be some kind of mental issue.

Lots of riders don't perform on a level they 'used' to

 

[theyoungest]

Lots of riders don't perform on a level they 'used' to

Yeah. But not when they're 22 years old, or whatever Cian's age is.

 

[Berniece]

Sport performance isn't an exact science.

That can be said about anything related to sports... What a non-answer. There is just no reason to think he has reached a plateau when they tell you it's clearly a physical issue.

 

[Rackham]

If you're fine with all sorts of reasons given regarding why riders aren't reaching a certain level then why do you keep insisting that it is merely a mental problem of struggling to live up to the expectations he had of himself?

You can at least admit that it is possible there is an underlying physical problem even if you don't agree it is the most likely explanation?

Likewise some are far too eager to dismiss the mental side of things (or the straight-up "he might not have what it takes to be a champion" side of the conversation) and go searching for a needle in the haystack in the form of some undefinable ailment that's preventing his progress.

It's clear you think that it's all in his head. And like a conspiracy theory, that's pretty difficult to disprove. I find it quite hard to believe though that when you finished top-10 in a grand tour less than two years ago, now all of a sudden your maximum level is 46th on an uphill finish in Tirreno. Because (and I don't know how many times we have to say this) it's not about improving, it's about getting to the level he used to have! And right now he's not even close.

That there were flashes of hope for him in the Tour of Oman doesn't mean that if the problem flares up again it has to be some kind of mental issue.

Nice job corelating my pretty mundane opinion on this issue with a "conspiracy theory".

So what was it when Vingegaard finished 6th on an MTF in Algarve last month? The end of the world? Nah. Just ups and downs of cycling. So don't act like it's a crime against logic and reason when Cian Uijtdebroaks finishes 46th in a Tirreno stage.

 

[Salvarani]

Yeah. But not when they're 22 years old, or whatever Cian's age is.

But there has been young talents who didnt take the next step, for whatever reason.