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Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

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Armchair Cyclist

Armchair Cyclist

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But does a transfer before the end of a contract not need UCI approval? So whether he has a legally valid transfer or not is clearly verifiable by a third party.

My guess: Jumbo making it virtually impossible that Bora will want to get retain Uijtdebroeks, by making it clear that he doesn't want to ride for them, having also agreed with him that he won't sign for anyone else next year.

theyoungest said:
They want money, and contrary to popular belief Jumbo don't buy riders out of their contract
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But unless there has been some valid cancellation of the contract, what you say is contrary to public belief will have to happen.
 
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Volderke

Volderke

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So in short:

Cian's management states that they unilaterally terminated the contract, and that the UCI knows this and legal procedures are pending.

Bora clearly doesn't want to get rid of Cian (or only if hefty fines are paid) and they reckon Cian has no ground to terminate the contract (without hefty fine).

Visma was OK to sign / introduce Cian without Cian having officially terminated the contract, it seems.

So Visma is confident enough that Cian will eventually get rid of his contract (or Visma already took fines into account or Cian will pay them himself?
 
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CyclistAbi

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theyoungest said:
I know Bora has scored a lot of sympathy points now that Roglic has signed for them, but surely nobody really believes that? They want money, and contrary to popular belief Jumbo don't buy riders out of their contract so they're left with a net loss since they did pay for Roglic. I would be quite annoyed as well, if I were Ralph Denk.
Click to expand...

Nah. Bora has put some extra money in the stockings each year. And that enabled them to poach Rogla. Waiting for somebody like Pogi, that would make much less sense ATM, due to the inflation. And waiting isn't really an option. Bora wants to take that step forward and win more races now. Not a couple of years from now.

As for making money with Cian. By selling him to some other team. I don't buy that. As Bora has rather weak cards here, due to contract expiring at the end of the 2024 season. Their motivation likely always was to keep Cian as their (potential) future GT winner.

What is hence much more plausible explanation is somebody from Cian management got a bit greedy or Cian could be a bit of a hothead. Visma might have took it personally, Rogla departure.
 
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Salvarani

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Armchair cyclist said:
But evidently without Bora's consent.

A) One party (I've no idea which think they have anything to gain by doing so) is posturing, knowing they are in the wrong
or
B) His management company (All Sports) claim that some sort of breach/release clause has been triggered, told Bora that on 1st Dec (or raised it earlier and gave them a timeframe to respond by that date) but Bora do not accept the validity of the claim.
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I only say they claim that...

As said, we will see what happens.
 
Rackham

Rackham

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Volderke said:
So in short:

Cian's management states that they unilaterally terminated the contract, and that the UCI knows this and legal procedures are pending.

Bora clearly doesn't want to get rid of Cian (or only if hefty fines are paid) and they reckon Cian has no ground to terminate the contract (without hefty fine).

Visma was OK to sign / introduce Cian without Cian having officially terminated the contract, it seems.

So Visma is confident enough that Cian will eventually get rid of his contract (or Visma already took fines into account or Cian will pay them himself?
Click to expand...

The way I see it based on the wording of the statements from the parties involved (including the more recent quotes from the rider's management), Uijtdebroeks unilaterally broke his contract without Bora's permission & is ready to fight them in court... whilst riding for Visma - Lease a Bike next season.

Maybe Visma figure the possible fine he receives for breach of contract (which they'd probably pay themselves) will be lower than what Bora's asking price was for a mutually agreed contract termination.
 
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theyoungest

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Armchair cyclist said:
The alternative is to believe that Bora would claim that they have a rider under contract until 31/12/24, while knowing full well that his contract terminated on 01/12/23. Why do you believe that would they do that?
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Because otherwise they won't get any money?

I don't think Bora really expect Uijtdebroeks to ride for their team next year. And clearly they feel they have a legal ground to still try to get something out of this. Although you have to wonder how much they really thought this through in the hour between Jumbo's press release and their own.
 
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AmRacer

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CyclistAbi said:
Nah. Bora has put some extra money in the stockings each year. And that enabled them to poach Rogla. Waiting for somebody like Pogi, that would make much less sense ATM, due to the inflation. And waiting isn't really an option. Bora wants to take that step forward and win more races now. Not a couple of years from now.

As for making money with Cian. By selling him to some other team. I don't buy that. As Bora has rather weak cards here, due to contract expiring at the end of the 2024 season. Their motivation likely always was to keep Cian as their (potential) future GT winner.

What is hence much more plausible explanation is somebody from Cian management got a bit greedy or Cian could be a bit of a hothead. Visma might have took it personally, Rogla departure.
Click to expand...
Rogla couldn't stay at Visma when Jonas is the number one rider for TdF. Roglas only chance to win TdF was to ride for another team.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

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theyoungest said:
Because otherwise they won't get any money?

I don't think Bora really expect Uijtdebroeks to ride for their team next year. And clearly they feel they have a legal ground to still try to get something out of this. Although you have to wonder how much they really thought this through in the hour between Jumbo's press release and their own.
Click to expand...
How much did Van Aert have to pay for breach of contract when he transferred?
 
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theyoungest

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Netserk said:
How much did Van Aert have to pay for breach of contract when he transferred?
Click to expand...
Initially nothing, I believe, because his lawyers argued that it was an unworkable situation, or whatever the terminology was. I haven't really followed the case since, but I assume that's how team-Uijtdebroeks is going to play it as well. Or how they have played it, but Bora disagree the game is over :)
 
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Bolder

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Netserk said:
How much did Van Aert have to pay for breach of contract when he transferred?
Click to expand...
662,000 euros to Nick Nuyens for legal fees, but he didn’t have to pay Willems directly if I understand it. They had sought 1.1 million.

I hope Bora structured Cian's contract in a more airtight way, not because I don't think he should be yoked to a team who don't want him, but I can't stand these messy legal battles where only the lawyers win.
 
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CyclistAbi

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From sports side of things i feel that Cian would get rather equal opportunities in both mentioned teams. Racing in the 2024 season. Rogla likely a bit better mentor then Jonas but JV likely still a bit better team then Bora.

Where things got out of hand and in my opinion is Bora invested substantial amount of money in Rogla and here likely the management of Cian had a hard time coping with that. They likely wanted more money for themself. For Cian to stay with Bora. This was likely the key factor they are now trying to terminate the contract with Bora. Well, they in the end can do that by compensating Bora. Otherwise forget about that.

As for Visma signing a rider knowing he is under contract with another team. Sure Cian is a great talent and could end up winning a lot of races for them in the future. But the way they are trying to do this. In my opinion this is a bit of a payback attempt, for Rogla.

Anyway. Hopefully both cyclists have a great 2024 season and get paid well. As for the management. Here i won't lose much sleep over it. As in the end i am rather sure that they will still be able to put food on their table.
 
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