Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[CyclistAbi]

You are not allowed to make offers?

Sure.

You are. Still both parties need to agree. Before the transfer can be made. Otherwise it's basically stealing and for sure the courts can get involved. Both the teams and the riders need to respect their contracts. Otherwise you have nothing. If salary was 100k annually. Then Bora couldn't have said, well, we will give you 50k this year. So it goes both ways.

 

[Salvarani]

Don't generalize Dutch people, especially when you put us at par with Ajax fans. Many of us despise that club and their arrogance and self-indulgence. But there is a point to be made that JV resembles of that club in some ways: Zeeman and Plugge definitely aren't the most humble characters on earth.

Dont see how I generalized Duth people.

I was talking about two Dutch team.

It was only a tidbit.

This is overreacting.

 

[Salvarani]

You are. Still both parties need to agree. Before the transfer can be made. Otherwise it's basically stealing and for sure the courts can get involved. Both the teams and the riders need to respect their contracts. Otherwise you have nothing. If salary was 100k annually. Then Bora couldn't have said, well, we will give you 50k this year. So it goes both ways.

As far as Jumbo know. Uijtdebroeks contract with Bora has been or will be terminated.

They only offered him a new deal.

It is all about what you can prove.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

So these multiple sources are claiming that Tim Podlogar, researcher, professional nutrionist, someone I would call the ultimate nerd of performance related food issues, is not competent enough?
I really have a hard time believing nobody at Bora is seeking marginal gains.

Who, by the way, has given lectures recently to other experts in the subject, among which were those from Jumbo, if I'm not mistaken

 

[Keldergoat]

Dont see how I generalized Duth people.

I was talking about two Dutch team.

Fair point, I think that is one of the reasons why JV is not so overly popular in all echelons of Dutch society. I've got many cycling loving mates that just don't click with the teams attitude, they are just straight out cocky.

 

[Rackham]

As far as Jumbo know. Uijtdebroeks contract with Bora has been or will be terminated.

They only offered him a new deal.

According to Bora, he still has a contract with the team until the end of 2024.

Just because Uijtdebroeks wants to tear it up, it doesn't mean its nullified.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As far as Jumbo know. Uijtdebroeks contract with Bora has been or will be terminated.

Not true. Visma knew legal procedures are still pending at UCI. On top of that it's Visma that offered 100k for compensation. And that was denied. So they knew they are signing a rider still under contract with Bora.

 

[Salvarani]

According to Bora, he still has a contract with the team until the end of 2024.

Just because Uijtdebroeks wants to tear it up, it doesn't mean its nullified.

Thats according to Bora.

But what who are to be believed, as of now.

What can be proven?

What has actually happened?

Nobody in here knows so saying either/or makes very little sense, without the necessary information.

Uijtdebroeks and JV are already found "guilty". People demand they should pay. Contract should be honored and whatnot.

Nobody has a clue.

 

[Salvarani]

Not true. Visma knew legal procedures are still pending at UCI. On top of that it's Visma that offered 100k for compensation. And that was denied. So they knew they are signing a rider still under contract with Bora.

100k was most likely and offer to settle it the easy way.

Bora are just delaying the inevitable now.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As far as Jumbo know. Uijtdebroeks contract with Bora has been or will be terminated.

They only offered him a new deal.

It is all about what you can prove.

It's stupid to even discuss this. They now know don't they? And it's clear they don't have any intention in rectifying the situation. That is to give back what is not theirs or pay the compensation. The same as they demanded with Roglič when transferring to Bora. But OK. They can believe that, or whatever they chose to believe, as long as UCI rectifies the situation and sets things straight. As without that there is no need to respect any contracts with UCI either. You can just decide for yourself.

 

[Salvarani]

It's stupid to even discuss this. They now know don't they? And it's clear they don't have any intention in rectifying the situation. That is to give back what is not theirs. But OK. They can believe that, or whatever they chose to believe, as long as UCI rectifies the situation and sets things straight. As without that there is no need to respect any contracts with UCI either. You can just decide for yourself.

But you are under the impression that Bora has not done anything wrong.

How do you know that for sure?

Again, what they can prove is what really matters. Unless Bora just take the deal to not risk ending up with nothing.

You seem to project a lot on what you want to happen. Legal matters dont work that way.

So it is better to not take any side, without knowing anything about what is going on. Without having all the information.

 

[Rackham]

Thats according to Bora.

But what who are to be believed, as of now.

What can be proven?

What has actually happened?

Nobody in here knows so saying either/or makes very little sense, without the necessary information.

Uijtdebroeks and JV are already found "guilty". People demand they should pay. Contract should be honored and whatnot.

Nobody has a clue.

It's fairly obvious neither Uijtdebroeks nor Jumbo have this deal sealed & settled.

That much is certain, ergo Bora still has rights here. It's even more evident after the recent salvo of 'bullying' reports, i.e. leaking such info is merely a tactic employed to justify his unilateral termination of a contract.

The fact the rider is going to have to prove that in court only further demonstrates the fact he's not legally out of the woods here & his current employer (Bora) has some serious grounds for protestation.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But you are under the impression that Bora has not done anything wrong.

How do you know that for sure?

Again, what they can prove is what really matters. Unless Bora just take the deal to not risk ending up with nothing.

You seem to project a lot on what you want to happen. Legal matters dont work that way.

So it is better to not take any side, without knowing anything about what is going on. Without having all the information.

Well you can tell me then, what they did wrong. And we can take it from there.

 

[Salvarani]

It's fairly obvious neither Uijtdebroeks nor Jumbo have this deal sealed & settled.

That much is certain, ergo Bora still has rights here. It's even more evident after the recent salvo of 'bullying' reports, i.e. leaking such info is merely a tactic employed to justify his unilateral termination of a contract.

The fact the rider is going to have to prove that in court only further demonstrates the fact he's not legally out of the woods here & his current employer (Bora) has some serious grounds for protestation.

It is word against word.

So as it stands currently, anything could happen.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I sent an agent to my neighbours garage, to make a deal for his car, as neighbour didn't agree with the agents offer i took the car anyway and will now drive it. For free. If the neighbour have an issue with that he can always sue me.

Kids.

 

[Salvarani]

Well you can tell me then, what they did wrong. And we can take it from there.

What about "having all the information" is it that you dont get?

 

[Netserk]

If there was actually a WhatsApp group deliberately created without Cian to gossip about him, that’s reason enough to leave such a toxic environment.

I guess someone lived a sheltered life in kindergarten.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What about "having all the information" is it that you dont get?

So basically you have nothing? It's OK but a bit unfair isn't it? To smear Bora based on nothing. Considering so much is known about the behaviour of the other side and was never denied.

 

[Salvarani]

So basically you have nothing? It's OK but a bit unfair isn't it? To smear Bora based on nothing. Considering so much is known about the behaviour of the other side and was never denied.

I dont know what has gone on behind the scenes. Obviously... all the information is not revealed in public.

Again, how do you know it is based on nothing?

You are not seeing this objectively and clearly taken Boras stance as the absolute truth. I know Roglic rides for them now, but damn.

All I am saying is it would be wise to just wait a bit.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I dont know what has gone on behind the scenes. Obviously... all the information is not revealed in public.

Again, how do you know it is based on nothing?

You are not seeing this objectively and clearly taken Boras stance as the absolute truth. I know Roglic rides for them now, but damn.

All I am saying is it would be wise to just wait a bit.

You don't know or you chose not to know and to turn a blind eye? As one can easily link here again an official statements by both teams. Such as Visma signing Cian and Bora denying the contract was terminated. Manager confirming procedures are still pending. For me it would be hard to ignore that as facts.

 

[Salvarani]

You don't know or you chose not to know and to turn a blind eye? As one can easily link here again an official statements by both teams. Such as Visma signing Cian and Bora denying the contract was terminated. For me it would hard to ignore that as facts.

Lol, okay.

 

[Rackham]

There's the contractual situation & now there's the bullying claims.

On the latter note, just because an accusation of bullying is serious, it doesn't mean such an accusation should be treated... seriously. I don't even reserve judgement on this matter. Uijtdebroeks & his agent via media intermediaries are essentially saying a team comprised of Hindley, Kämna & a whole bunch of other riders who're nothing but exemplary sportsmen based on their behavior & reputation thus far, are in fact "bullies".

I'm sorry, but considering the contractual dispute going on between the rider & his team, I believe this is all very, very convenient. There's some real Meghan Markle energy going on here with Uijtdebroeks ergo the onus is on the rider to make a compelling case here & not merely handpick some comments here or there from teammates to prove a 'bigger picture' of bullying.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Oh how simple it would have been to have had an amicable swop between Roglic and Uijtdebroeks with any financial adjustment agreed at the same time.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Let me ask you like this. If YOU would be in Denk position.

Would you take 100k for Cian?
If no. Would you sue if Visma would sign Cian anyway? Would you expect for UCI to back you or Visma?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Can an agent like Alex Carera really be running around trying to make deals for riders, he doesn't officially represent? That sounds a bit dodgy, if that's been the case.

I know that Vaughters has said he gave up on signing Roglič back in the day, because there were multiple people contacting him claiming they were his agent, so it might be more common than I thought, although JV's story may very well be a load of bollocks.