Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Rob5091]

I don't know why people get so hang up on this. He simply does not want to work for Roglic, He just wants to work for Vingegaard!

I think he wants to work for himself.

 

[Rob5091]

So why is van Aert still going to courts then and currently compensation set to 600k?

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...nuyens-due-to-breaking-contract-with-old-team
"Originally it was thrown out as Van Aert claimed he thought Nuyens had defaulted and he could leave the team without paying the severance fee."

I believe it's been appealed again, but if the contract was broken, then compensation is the normal procedure. If Cian has broken his contract, it's the same thing. The Labour Laws are for people to work where they will, but contract law is second only to the ten commandments.

 

[Froome]

I don't know why people get so hang up on this. He simply does not want to work for Roglic, He just wants to work for Vingegaard!

Cian uijdtbroeks doesn't want to waste is last year at Bora, launching roglic for his epica attacks in the last 500 meters 😂

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

All echelons of Dutch society... that's stretching it a bit. A winning team will always be regarded as cocky by some, as you've already demonstrated with your anti-Ajax rant. But it's not like there's any team that's more popular.


Testing the waters, seeing if there's money to be made... a bit dodgy, yes, but in the world of sports agents, maybe not unheard of. He now finds himself in the interesting situation of having to negotiate not getting as much money as he probably would have wanted.

He didn't say that they are unpopular among all echelons: not popular among all, is what he said.
Jasper Philipsen didn't win every race he entered this year: that doesn't mean he lost all of them, or that he didn't win more than anyone else.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Rob5091

Your original claim went in the direction on how Cian will automatically win this case, due to labour law. But that is simply not true. And that is not confirmed in the article you linked and the text you bolded. That text says the court initially sided with van Aert, due to believing Nuyens had defaulted. Basically gone out of business and hence contract to be terminated. But after it was established Nuyens didn't defaulted the court basically backed Nuyens. Now this decision, regarding van Aert, can still end up both ways. We'll see on what the court will decide. And Austrian courts can then again rule differently. We will know in a couple of years from now. Unless both teams reach an agreement in December or if UCI sorts this mess out. The most elegant solution in my opinion is for Visma to pay for Cian one third of what they got for Rogla. And then it's settled. All other options will be worse. Legal fees alone are enough to stop this madness. Lets see if they agree.

 

[joseph89]

Without an agent and happy to negotiate for himself, his apparent agreed salary was €100,000, far below what a Tour de l’Avenir winner would normally command, especially in this day and age of youth-focused recruitment. So, when Uijtdebroeks started publicly displaying his unhappiness, it wasn’t just teams who took notice, but also the super agent Alex Carera, who has more than 50 professional riders on his books, including Tadej Pogačar.

Blank-kitted Uijtdebroeks arrives at Visma camp amid Bora bullying allegations

Allegations and denials of bullying, secret WhatsApp groups and the most intrigue a blank set of training kit has possibly ever had.

escapecollective.com

 

[Ricco']

⁴

Without an agent and happy to negotiate for himself, his apparent agreed salary was €100,000, far below what a Tour de l’Avenir winner would normally command,

This doesn't make any sense because his contract was signed long before he even won Tour de l'Avenir. No one but himself is at fault for signing a three year contract as a neo-pro, when the norm is two years.

Now I'm curious to see what were the numbers given by Trek to Albert Philipsen for a 4 year pro contract when he isn't even a 2nd year junior.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Exactly. If it's more or less about (more) money, highly likely. Then Bora is entitled for some of that too. A million is fair. Considering all circumstances involved.

 

[Ricco']

And honestly, what exactly can he sayagainst Bora's support in the Vuelta? The plan was always, from what I remember reading here since long before Romandie, to have a free role in the Vuelta while the team leader would be Vlasov.

This is even corroborated by Cian's own words during the Vuelta first week.

"Bora-Hansgrohe sent Uijtdebroeks into the Vuelta as an apprentice to climber captains Aleksandr Vlasov, Sergio Higuita, and Emanuel Buchmann."

“Everything is new to me. So it’s hard for me to predict how it will go. But I can already say that I get a free role within the team,” Uijtdebroeks said.

“If I could choose myself, I would take it day by day, without too much pressure, but try to go for a GC,” he said ahead of the Vuelta last week.

Stand aside, Evenepoel: Cian Uijtdebroeks steps up as next Belgian sensation of the Vuelta a España

20-year-old grand tour rookie stunned in the Vuelta's opening summit finish and is promising a lot more to come.

velo.outsideonline.com

Can't say Bora has done anything wrong during the Vuelta, according to their pre-race plan. Yes, Vlasov might not have helped him but as team leader that was not exactly expected from him. But on the other hand, I don't remember anyone asking Uijtdebroeks to sacrifice his own race in favor of Vlasov, precisely what would be expected of someone who has a free role.

 

[Jagartrott]

I guess someone lived a sheltered life in kindergarten.

No, in any professional environment, such behaviour would be deemed completely unacceptable. Creating a chat group to talk behind a teammate's back is simply disgusting and should not be tolerated by any manager.

 

[CyclistAbi]

No, in any professional environment, such behaviour would be deemed completely unacceptable. Creating a chat group to talk behind a teammate's back is simply disgusting and should not be tolerated by any manager.

I fully agree with that still it has to be true. That is based on:

Cian Uijtdebroeks trains with Jumbo-Visma as Bora-Hansgrohe deny bullying claims

Contract dispute escalates as UCI say 'applicable rules will be enforced'

www.cyclingnews.com

Dutch journalist Thijs Zonneveld suggested that Uijtdebroeks may have been bullied in ‘In het Wiel’ podcast.

So i read that as Thijs Zonneveld doesn't know for sure? He is thinking out loud? May have?

As for the team management:

Eisel, who was at the Vuelta with Uijtdebroeks, denied any suggestion of bullying within the team.

“100% I can deny that. Definitely not. Especially from my side, and the riders’ side,” Eisel told GCN from Mallorca.

“He had a team that looked after him, Aleksandr Vlasov had his team that looked after him and, from my point of view, they did an incredible job to protect him. We did everything we could for him. I have to deny that one. It’s that simple. 100% no.”

So was management involved or was it reported to the management for bullying to occur? And Eisel is lying?

All in all and unless there was some systematic bulling involved. I don't believe that are grounds for contract termination. If that is what they are aiming at. But lets leave this one to the UCI commission. There such evidence can be presented.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

a bit dodgy, yes, but in the world of sports agents, maybe not unheard of.

"a bit dodgy" is pretty unheard of in the world of sports agents. Most of them are full on, as dodgy as it can get, cut-throat, scum of the earth stuff. They filter out the ones with any kind of morals or sense of guilt or empathy early.

 

[Rackham]

No, in any professional environment, such behaviour would be deemed completely unacceptable. Creating a chat group to talk behind a teammate's back is simply disgusting and should not be tolerated by any manager.

Was the chat created specifically to talk about Uijtdebroeks behind his back? Or was he just mentioned during a conversation? There's a huge difference.

That's 'if' it even happened at all. There's nuance & layer upon layer of necessary context in such cases. And different viewpoints as well.

 

[Bolder]

"a bit dodgy" is pretty unheard of in the world of sports agents. Most of them are full on, as dodgy as it can get, cut-throat, scum of the earth stuff. They filter out the ones with any kind of morals or sense of guilt or empathy early.

Their job is to represent their clients against team owners who would like to sign them for the smallest amount of money they can get away with, or in the case of women's cycling, ride for free or even pay their own way. You don't want to take a knife to a gun fight, as the saying goes.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I am OK with Bora getting 0 if some sort of systematic bullying was presented and management knew and did nothing about it. But if this is just some sort of smear campaign against Bora. Then i support compensation of 1 million and full 600k in fines. We'll see.

 

[Berniece]

Was the chat created specifically to talk about Uijtdebroeks behind his back? Or was he just mentioned during a conversation? There's a huge difference.

That's 'if' it even happened at all. There's nuance & layer upon layer of necessary context in such cases. And different viewpoints as well.

I’ll listen to the podcast tomorrow to properly translate what the journalist said. Maybe it’s being blown out of proportion by sensational media

 

[CyclistAbi]

Bullying is a sensitive subject and i feel it deserves all the attention. So best to leave this to commissions and evidence, then forums. And after to discuss the outcome.

Regardless of bullying what in my opinion (also) happened is Cian wasn't happy with his salary, got an agent that couldn't negotiate more at Bora, agent went to Visma and got a better offer. The only problem being Bora not willing to let Cian go. Especially not for 100k. And then both Visma and the agent decided to play hard ball. They likely don't even care if they get sued. From this point of view i feel that Bora is at fault here. Put in impossible position. So in my opinion UCI, unless corrupted, won't allow it.

 

[ManicJack]

So best to leave this to commissions and evidence, then forums. And after to discuss the outcome.

🙄

 

[Berniece]

Bullying is a sensitive subject and i feel it deserves all the attention. So best to leave this to commissions and evidence, then forums. And after to discuss the outcome.

Regardless of bullying what in my opinion (also) happened is Cian wasn't happy with his salary, got an agent that couldn't negotiate more at Bora, agent went to Visma and got a better offer. The only problem being Bora not willing to let Cian go. Especially not for 100k. And then both Visma and the agent decided to play hard ball. They likely don't even care if they get sued. From this point of view i feel that Bora is at fault here. Put in impossible position. So in my opinion UCI, unless corrupted, won't allow it.

If it was about money I think he would’ve earned more at INEOS or Lidl-Trek

 

[CyclistAbi]

🙄

What would you like to discuss then? A journalist suggesting something may have happened?

 

[CyclistAbi]

If it was about money I think he would’ve earned more at INEOS or Lidl-Trek

Would in your opinion INEOS or Lidl-Trek reach an agreement with Bora before or after signing Cian? With after i mean they would just sign him and say he is with us now. The rest can go ...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Their job is to represent their clients against team owners who would like to sign them for the smallest amount of money they can get away with, or in the case of women's cycling, ride for free or even pay their own way. You don't want to take a knife to a gun fight, as the saying goes.

Mino Raiola and Jorge Mendes, modern day Robin Hoods.

 

[Berniece]

Would in your opinion INEOS or Lidl-Trek reach an agreement with Bora before or after signing Cian? With after i mean they would just sign him and say he is with us now. The rest can go ...

I don’t need to give my opinion, apparently both of them reached an agreement with Bora first. But Cian didn’t want to

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don’t need to give my opinion, apparently both of them reached an agreement with Bora first. But Cian didn’t want to

Source? For me to read first what we are talking about. Before giving my opinion.

 

[Gargamel35]

Cian was probably pain in the butt for mechanics. Complained all the time about his setup and he threw them publicly under the bus for not preparing his bikes right. A first year pro with no result by the way.
So i would bet if there was any Whatsapp chat group created, it was by supporting staff having enough of his ***.